Curran: "In my estimation... [Gonzo would like to] be treated as if he's at the table in 2027." [previous title: "say goodbye to gonzo"]

[raduray]

They have been bottom 5 in real cash spending over the last 5 years, the last 10 years, the last 20 years. The 2nd-most valuable franchise in the league.

This argument has always been a mystery to me. I understand the difference between cap and cash spending, That all has to do with front or back loading of cash spends. But, given the salary cap rules, don't the two more or less equal out on a rolling multi-year average?

 

[patfanken]

This all sounds good, but then when you give really good contracts to a bunch of mediocre players, the middle class theory fails you badly.

I mean, look at this:

Carlton Davis $18m AAV
Harold Landry $14.5m AAV

Combined $32.5m AAV (what Witherspoon got).

If if were me, I'd trade Gonzalez for Davis and Landry.

This is why superstars get paid, because you can get pretty good production from other players for a lot cheaper than the $32.5m we're paying Davis and Landry, which leaves good money for the superstars.

It would really be absurd for us to lose Gonzalez and yet we get to keep oldheads like Davis, AJ Brown, and Landry.
I would call that a colossal error in teambuilding and mismanagement of the salary cap.

First, I don't know how either the Davis or Landry contracts are exactly structured. I distrust all "reported" contract AAV's after Digg' 3 yr $69MM deal turned into a one year $17MM deal, but let's say your numbers are accurate. (BTW- I also wonder what Landry's and Davis's 2025 cap numbers actually were?)

At any rate you seem to be denigrating BOTH Landry and Davis' contributions. Landry was our sack LEADER and provided consistent pressure throughout the season when he came back from injury in a diminished state. We don't have anything close to the results we got without him. Davis was a SOLID #2 CB who missed only one game last season. We don't have anything close to the results we got without him.

Neither were stars, or all pros, but they were good solid contributors all season long, AND may I mention that during our supposed AWFUL playoff run I keep hearing about, we DID manage to win 3 games against the best competition in the conference. but I digress.
The bottom line here is that your analogy is flawed, and I just wanted to point that out. BTW- Davis is just 29 and Landry is 30. Old...ish
but not OLD.

....and as I mentioned in another post, the only reason Landry is on the PUP list is because he kept playing while injured, and yet you seem to give him NO credit for that.

 

[slash83]

 

[TommyD4207]

"The sticking points are around structure and total dollars"

 

[Steve102]

"The sticking points are around structure and total dollars"

 

[upstater1]

First, I don't know how either the Davis or Landry contracts are exactly structured. I distrust all "reported" contract AAV's after Digg' 3 yr $69MM deal turned into a one year $17MM deal, but let's say your numbers are accurate. (BTW- I also wonder what Landry's and Davis's 2025 cap numbers actually were?)

At any rate you seem to be denigrating BOTH Landry and Davis' contributions. Landry was our sack LEADER and provided consistent pressure throughout the season when he came back from injury in a diminished state. We don't have anything close to the results we got without him. Davis was a SOLID #2 CB who missed only one game last season. We don't have anything close to the results we got without him.

Neither were stars, or all pros, but they were good solid contributors all season long, AND may I mention that during our supposed AWFUL playoff run I keep hearing about, we DID manage to win 3 games against the best competition in the conference. but I digress.
The bottom line here is that your analogy is flawed, and I just wanted to point that out. BTW- Davis is just 29 and Landry is 30. Old...ish
but not OLD.

....and as I mentioned in another post, the only reason Landry is on the PUP list is because he kept playing while injured, and yet you seem to give him NO credit for that.

In my view, Davis was subpar for his contract. He got burned a lot.

Landry used to get washed on running plays really badly from the start. He's a shell of what he used to be. And this is pre-injury. I thought Chiasson gave us more than Landry and look how we're treating him.

Davis's contract is $60m for 3 years with 34.5m guaranteed. Cap hit is $22m this year and next. But he will almost certainly be cut or sign for less after this season since he only has about $6m in dead cap money next year. The Patriots can replace him and get better production for $10m plus the $6m in dead cap money.

Landry has a $48m contract for 3 years with 26 guaranteed. Cap hit is 16.4m this year and 18.5m next year. With a dead money hit of $4m next year, he too will almost certainly be cut.

Together, Landry and Davis account for 12.8% of our cap this year, while reports are that Gonzalez is asking for 10%.

Landry and Davis are easily replaceable. Gonzalez is not.

 

[upstater1]

This argument has always been a mystery to me. I understand the difference between cap and cash spending, That all has to do with front or back loading of cash spends. But, given the salary cap rules, don't the two more or less equal out on a rolling multi-year average?

I believe the idea is that you can always push the money out into the future so that as the cap grows, the ramifications of each contract lessen. It's kind of like an incredibly wealthy person taking out loans to pay for their living expenses. Owners who do this have less cash to invest and become richer because they gave money to star players.

 

[TheRainMaker]

In my view, Davis was subpar for his contract. He got burned a lot.

I watched a lot of Davis in Tampa and couldn't stand the guy. He was also awful in Detroit and it was mind boggling how he landed the contract he did in NE. However, he was actually very solid in 2025 and gave up the least amount of yards at CB (394 yards) on the team. He gave up 4 TD's which was only two more than Gonzalez, but 3 less than Marcus Jones.

Davis's contract is $60m for 3 years with 34.5m guaranteed. Cap hit is $22m this year and next. But he will almost certainly be cut or sign for less after this season since he only has about $6m in dead cap money next year. The Patriots can replace him and get better production for $10m plus the $6m in dead cap money.

Landry has a $48m contract for 3 years with 26 guaranteed. Cap hit is 16.4m this year and 18.5m next year. With a dead money hit of $4m next year, he too will almost certainly be cut.

I agree that both of them will either take a massive pay cut or be cut next season. The most ideal scenario is that Gonzalez holds off for one more season so the Pats can see what happens with Barmore. If he has another mediocre season, then the Pats could shed $20M from the cap and apply it towards Gonzalez. Both he and Williams are going to account for about 17% of the cap in 2027. There's way too much money tied up inside with such little production.

 

[Hyped]

He isn’t fetching what Parsons brought. Parsons was viewed as a generational player. Gonzo is a very good player and one of the best at his position, but he’s not viewed as a Revis or Bailey. He’s also missed a lot of football since he’s come in the league. None of us know the negotiations, but I don’t think Gonzo’s deal needs to jump Witherspoon’s by much.

Generational or not, he is a LOCK DOWN corner. He shuts down the opponent's #1 WR. I even advised someone against starting JSN in FFL for week 1!

Yes, he would absolutely net us a Parsons-type deal. I understand that a pass rusher can affect the game a lot, but so can a #1 corner on an island outside. At the very least, I'd rather give him 35M AAV than deal him away for something less than a Parsons type of package.

PAY.THE.MAN.

 

[Hyped]

I saw this trade speculation with the Lions.

The Lions get Gonzo

We get: Sam LaPorta, a 2027 first, a 2027 2nd, and a 2028 first.

Now I'm totally against trading Gonzo BUT, we would get an upgrade to Henry, so we now have 2 good threats at TE. PLUS, we get a #1 in 27 who would likely be in the 15-25 range depending on how their season goes. PLUS, we get back our #1 in 28 which COULD be a top 10 pick if the Lions' window closes

We can justify it by improving the DL with the cap space and picks and that our D is already 80% zone. I know my justification is partial BS, but that IS quite a haul

Sign me up for that..... I have to admit that not having Gonzo eat away 15% of the cap would help greatly....

 

[upstater1]

Sign me up for that..... I have to admit that not having Gonzo eat away 15% of the cap would help greatly....

15% of the cap next year is $50m

No one is talking about a $50m contract for Gonzalez.

Schefter said they are not willing to do Witherspoon's # never mind something that is 65% higher.

 

[WhatJustHappened]

Bob has done it before, just needs to do it again.
Problem is 2 studs in a row... that's a lotta Hard CASH going out.

 

[slash83]

Bob has done it before, just needs to do it again.
Problem is 2 studs in a row... that's a lotta Hard CASH going out.

There’s a reason he’s near or at the bottom in actual cash spending.

 

[WhatJustHappened]

Bob is going to have to give a ****load in guaranteed cash to these 2 guys and hope the stay healthy.
Pulling cash from Paper to do it.
Just because you are worth 8B doesn't mean you have that cash available... he's probably working on that.
That's just a guess.

 

[raduray]

I believe the idea is that you can always push the money out into the future so that as the cap grows, the ramifications of each contract lessen. It's kind of like an incredibly wealthy person taking out loans to pay for their living expenses. Owners who do this have less cash to invest and become richer because they gave money to star players.

But by rule, they all have to cash spend 90% of cap over a designated period of years.

 

[upstater1]

But by rule, they all have to cash spend 90% of cap over a designated period of years.

Right. But 90% isn't 110%, 110% is what some of them spend because the cap goes up by 10% every year. And then you also have a tank year like the Patriots did in 2020. Not only was there no fan revenue because of Covid, but we managed to take all our dead cap money and stuff into a big down year.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I watched a lot of Davis in Tampa and couldn't stand the guy. He was also awful in Detroit and it was mind boggling how he landed the contract he did in NE. However, he was actually very solid in 2025 and gave up the least amount of yards at CB (394 yards) on the team. He gave up 4 TD's which was only two more than Gonzalez, but 3 less than Marcus Jones.

I agree that both of them will either take a massive pay cut or be cut next season. The most ideal scenario is that Gonzalez holds off for one more season so the Pats can see what happens with Barmore. If he has another mediocre season, then the Pats could shed $20M from the cap and apply it towards Gonzalez. Both he and Williams are going to account for about 17% of the cap in 2027. There's way too much money tied up inside with such little production.

Lots to consider next year. Maye, Davis, Landry, Moses, Onwenu, Barmore, Byard, Spillane, Douglas, and Stevenson.

 

[Zuma]

If you are on the left, it is always polite warnings on PatsFans, so the BS goes on for years.

Oh stop being such a wuss. Politics is verboten period....regardless of beliefs. You know it.. I know it.

 

[OldEngland]

Sign me up for that..... I have to admit that not having Gonzo eat away 15% of the cap would help greatly....

2027 1st and 2nd, 2028 1st and a player.
That kind of deal is worth at least considering if Gonzalez is after something that is going to cause problems to the overall team cap structure.

I'd prefer it after the 2026 season ends though if they just can't come to an agreement.

 

[OldEngland]

15% of the cap next year is $50m

No one is talking about a $50m contract for Gonzalez.

Schefter said they are not willing to do Witherspoon's # never mind something that is 65% higher.

The funny thing is the Pats probably can legitimately push back with Gonzalez on the Witherspoon deal to some extent.

Witherspoon received the top 5th year option worth 21m. Gonzalez received the 2nd highest 5th year option worth 18m. The reason, although they have both been 2nd team allpros, Witherspoon has been selected to the probowl all 3 seasons, Gonzalez has only been selected once. Witherspoon was also selected as a top 10 pick, ahead of Gonzalez in the 2023 draft, and Witherspoon has already regularly been a team captain with the Hawks.

I'm not saying Witherspoon is a better player or Gonzalez isn't worth a bigger contract. I'm saying the Patriots can (and probably are) legitimately asking why do you deserve significantly more than him during negotiations, especially if Gonzalez's team is genuinely asking for a deal that completely resets the market.