Pats still interested in Sherman

[patsinthesnow]

2014

Aqib Talib, a borderline elite CB, abandoned at 28 for the undisputed best CB (1st ballot HOFer) of the last 5 years in the short term at age 29

2017

Malcolm Butler, a borderline elite CB, abandoned at age 27 for the undisputed best CB (1st ballot HOFer) of the last 5 years in the short term at age 29


So...should we be rooting at this point for Butler to be traded to NOLA? Getting weird.

 

[jimnance]

Anyone can post dumb gifs. Explain to me what sherman does better than buter, what butler does better than sherman. factor in their ages. and answer me this: who plays more man ?

 

[Le Numéro Douze]

I might sound stupid, but, this year... couldn't we afford both?

CB1/CB2 Sherman and Gilmore
Slot Butler

Secondary = legendary

I know that's pretty unrealistic, but if BB wanted to, it could probably be done, right?

 

[jimnance]

Butler is the best CB of ALL TIME!!!

Whos saying that? do you actually have any idea what butler or sherman have done each game in the last 2 years? because before that is irrelevant. do you know what coverage schemes they play in?

 

[FourierSeries]

Anyone can post dumb gifs. Explain to me what sherman does better than buter, what butler does better than sherman. factor in their ages. and answer me this: who plays more man ?

Pretty sure this debate has been had before on this board and Sherman's man coverage stats were posted - they were superb. How much man he plays isn't up to him. The important takeaway is that he has exceptional man coverage skills, and would have no problem adapting to a new system.

 

[Deus Irae]

Anyone can post dumb gifs.

Indeed. And, as your post proved, anyone can write really stupid things.

Explain to me what sherman does better than buter, what butler does better than sherman. factor in their ages. and answer me this: who plays more man ?

Sherman plays cornerback better than Butler. Butler probably does something else better than Sherman, and their ages are irrelevant to your claim:

Malcolm Butler right now is a better cb than Sherman.

If you'd argued fit, you might have been able to make an argument. Instead, you went full ******.

 

[Thelonious]

I guess we're talking about an All-pro who would likely flourish in NE vs a guy we're not even certain will be on the roster after the draft? I'm not arguing with you so much as I'm pointing out that Butler being in NE in 2017, while seemingly likely, is hardly guaranteed. If you can replace him with a guy like Richard Sherman, yeah, you kick the tires on that a few times to see what it would take. Expressing interest does not necessarily mean anything will happen.

Heh. You're kinda overselling Sherman here, and underselling Butler, I think. So, as is usually the case, the truth probably lies about midway between what you say and what I say. And, as you say too, probably nothing will happen, so that you and I will both have to find something else to posture about. (There's a lot of that come spring: my three roosters are strutting around like matadors.)

 

[jimnance]

2014

Aqib Talib, a borderline elite CB, abandoned at 28 for the undisputed best CB (1st ballot HOFer) of the last 5 years in the short term at age 29

2017

Malcolm Butler, a borderline elite CB, abandoned at age 27 for the undisputed best CB (1st ballot HOFer) of the last 5 years in the short term at age 29


So...should we be rooting at this point for Butler to be traded to NOLA? Getting weird.

Shermans #'s woud be more more relevant if you were just showing last 2 seasons-that goes bak to 2011. Nobody in the nfl cares what you did 4,5 or 6 years ago. You get paid based on what they THINK youre goingto do this year an the next couple.(based on length of contract). I would have much rather kept talib over revis but revis contract was good value because it was only one year.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

Jimnance at least tell us you are butler's grandmother.

 

[Thelonious]

Butler is the best CB of ALL TIME!!!

Oh yeah? Well, if Rex Burkhead ever decided to play cb, he'd be the best defensive player of all time!

 

[NG Pats Fan]

Lets get this straight: BB does not value Gilmore over butler. There are economics involved. Gilmore is under control by the pats, malcolm could walk next year. Ill bet the farm that if butler is an ufa next year-he will get a BIGGER contract than gilmore. And he should, because hes a better player.

You have no clue what you are talking about. BB offered Gilmore a patriots defensive record contract because he values him more. Butler was not offered an extension anywhere near Gilmore ballpark. Case closed.

 

[PatsBoy12]

Heh. You're kinda overselling Sherman here, and underselling Butler, I think. So, as is usually the case, the truth probably lies about midway between what you say and what I say. And, as you say too, probably nothing will happen, so that you and I will both have to find something else to posture about. (There's a lot of that come spring: my three roosters are strutting around like matadors.)

I didn't think I was "posturing," or at least that was not my aim. And I don't know how I undersold Butler. I was merely saying we don't know if he'll be a Patriot in 2017 given what's transpired this off season. And Sherman is still one of the better corners in the league. I don't know how that could be overstated, even with some perceived drop off.

To be sure, my only point was I think it makes sense for the Pats to get a feel for what it would take to make this happen given the uncertainty of the Butler situation, which seems tenuous at best between the two sides. And Sherman would be significantly better than anyone on the roster, perhaps not named Stephon Gilmore. Reports are that he'd be happy to be traded here. So why not at least investigate?

 

[PatsBoy12]

Take with the requisite amount of salt :

New England Patriots trade rumors: Deal for Richard Sherman a 'very real possibility' (report)

 

[Thelonious]

Jimnance at least tell us you are butler's grandmother.[/QUOTE

"Ian, NG just called Jim a girl. I'd call that a microagression. I want soemthing done."

 

[NG Pats Fan]

Jimnance

If Malcolm Butler is so highly regarded as the best cornerback in the NFL, how come 31 other teams have yet to offer a first round pick for him despite his agent lobbying to get him traded?

 

[jimnance]

Indeed. And, as your post proved, anyone can write really stupid things.



Sherman plays cornerback better than Butler. Butler probably does something else better than Sherman, and their ages are irrelevant to your claim:




If you'd argued fit, you might have been able to make an argument. Instead, you went full ******.

Wow, so instead of actually comparing the relative strengths/weaknesses of each player, you go to namecalling. in other words-you dont know. sherman does NOT curently play cb better than butler. if both were playing seatles current scheme, then, yes, shermn plays it better. that has nothing to do with their market value to the rest of the laegue. butler plays a LOT more man. i thought you knew that. cbs with man cover skills are worth more. like revis USED to be. talib. butler. peterson. im not saying butler is a better overall cb than sherman was at his peak. hes not at his peak anymore. and butler hasnt yet reached his. hell, i think gilmore has more value on the open market right now than sherman, becuase hes younger with bigger potential upside. doesnt mean he'll reach that upside. but contracts are based on RECENT play AND FUTURE POTENTIAL. NOT past performance from 3+ years ago

 

[Thelonious]

I didn't think I was "posturing," or at least that was not my aim. And I don't know how I undersold Butler. I was merely saying we don't know if he'll be a Patriot in 2017 given what's transpired this off season. And Sherman is still one of the better corners in the league. I don't know how that could be overstated, even with some perceived drop off.

To be sure, my only point as I think it makes sense for the Pats to get a feel for what it would take to make this happen given the uncertainty of the Butler situation, which seems tenuous at best between the two sides. And Sherman would be significantly better than anyone on the roster, perhaps not named Stephon Gilmore. Reports are that he'd be happy to be traded here. So why not at least investigate?

LOL No offense. I think a little posturing is part of the art of message board posting. Me, I'm a poseur to the core. I mean, I'm a retired English teacher, fer cryin' out loud, what do I know about the manly art of football?! I'd be unconscious for a week after one play.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Shermans #'s woud be more more relevant if you were just showing last 2 seasons-that goes bak to 2011. Nobody in the nfl cares what you did 4,5 or 6 years ago. You get paid based on what they THINK youre goingto do this year an the next couple.(based on length of contract). I would have much rather kept talib over revis but revis contract was good value because it was only one year.

To be fair, he was an All-Pro every season from 2011-2015.

Last season:

Seahawks GM explains Richard Sherman injury stance

Earlier this month, Pete Carroll said Richard Sherman played through a "legit" MCL injury this season. However, the corner was never listed on the Seahawks' injury report with knee troubles.

Never missed a game in his career. We'd be getting a guy with Martellus level toughness.

 

[PatsBoy12]

Malcolm Butler right now is a better cb than Sherman.

Malcolm is faster, quicker,tougher and a better tackler. Sherman cannot cover antonio brown, je11, cooks or any other quick smaller wr. he is still one of the best in the nfl but i just cant believe how many of you undervalue Butler.

Lets get this straight: BB does not value Gilmore over butler. There are economics involved. Gilmore is under control by the pats, malcolm could walk next year. Ill bet the farm that if butler is an ufa next year-he will get a BIGGER contract than gilmore. And he should, because hes a better player. gilmore is also young with big upside. sherman is not young, has no upside and while still very good, will start losing ability each year. It alsomakes no sense to have 3 tall cbs and no one to cover the antonio browns of the league.

I actually like sherman, on and off the field, unlike some here. But butler is a better player and is still ascending. would really suck imo if the pats cant keep him for at least this year. Of course, with or without him, theyre still the best team in the league. But with butler, pats have the best secondary in the nfl. Would be scary how good this team could be.

Respect, Jim. Certainly there may be no way to truly quantify anything, but your assertion that Butler is better than Gilmore... how? I'm curious.

 

[jimnance]

Jimnance

If Malcolm Butler is so highly regarded as the best cornerback in the NFL, how come 31 other teams have yet to offer a first round pick for him despite his agent lobbying to get him traded?

1.Who the hell said he was the best cb in the nfl? Peterson is, handsdown. No, Butler is not close to peterson. neither is anyone else, tho peterson has his flaws too.

C'mon, man, thats a really dumb question. Why would anyone give up a high 1st round pick this year, in a draft thats LOADED with excellent cb prospects, who you keep on your roster on a cheap rookie contract for several years PLUS have to pay Butler big $. That makes no sense. You wait tilnext year when hes a ufa and dont surrender any picks.