100% Health - Amendola or Edelman in the slot?

[Pats0204]

Agreed. It's Amendola and it's not even close.

 

[The Scrizz]

Currentlly the top possibility for my epitath.

You're being kind to yourself. It's more like the best case scenario.

If the topic is obviously ridiculous then just ignore it.

Edelman has more than proven that he belongs on the field with Amendola.

But I'm sure you still think he leads the league in receptions and is top 20 in yards by only being able to catch screen passes and 4-yard slants.

 

[Ring 6]

You're being kind to yourself. It's more like the best case scenario.

If the topic is obviously ridiculous then just ignore it.

Edelman has more than proven that he belongs on the field with Amendola.

But I'm sure you still think he leads the league in receptions and is top 20 in yards by only being able to catch screen passes and 4-yard slants.

Do you diasgree that this is mostly what he has done.
Thanks for the advice about how to post, but I'll pass.

 

[Ozymandias]

The plan from the beginning was to platoon them. There's no exclusive usage at a certain set position, as they'll both work off each other in tandem.

 

[Brady6]

I mean it is a ridiculous question if meant seriously.

How do you figure that, really I do not understand where you form that opinion from; both came into the league in 2009 the only difference being that Edelman spent his first 4 seasons in the NFL on a team with the best slot wide receiver in the league. If you really believe that Amendola would have had the success (marginal success at that) if he was on a team with Wes Welker your clearly not looking at things realistically, so if anything is ridiculous it is what a simple view you’re taking on the situation.

Andy could have been a little gentler, but I think he is right that Amendola is clearly the superior player.

My view of Amendola being a superior player is foggy at best and certainly not clear by any stretch of the imagination, having more opportunity does not equate to being superior and at the end of the day in entering game 5 of their 5th seasons Amendola has had far more opportunity than Edelman.

? Edelman had better metrics athletically in EVERY workout category; he was bigger, faster, stronger and more agile.

Since entering the NFL

? Edelman has made the reception 68.12% of the time he was targeted compared to Amendola at 67.10%.
? Edelman averages 1.1 yard more than Amendola does per reception.
? Amendola has just 1 more with 7 in his career despite being targeted 156 more times than Edelman who has 6 touchdowns.
? Their first down to reception rate is nearly identical.

So what are basing your opinion on, stiffer competition, because I don’t think that is true considering Edelman had to work at outside receiver far more than Amendola has in the previous 4 years. I am by no means a Edelman fan, but if your not seeing the big picture if you think that Amendola is clearly better, other than a higher salary and more opportunities to play in the slot over in his first 4 years there is nothing to support your assessment that Amendola is a superior player, in fact all measurable metrics and statistics indicate otherwise.

My question is, why does it have to be one or the other? NE is going to mix and match, giving both plenty of opportunities.

I said the same thing in my OP so we’re in agreement, that aside it is still relevant to discuss who the primary slot wide receiver will be because they both cannot be it.

 

[DaBronxPats14]

They can be out there together in different formations or both slot options at times. Whatever it calls for their dynamic in similar ways bursts in open field.

 

[Brady6]

Agreed. It's Amendola and it's not even close.

You’re talking about a guy who’s career stats amount to 206 receptions for 1830 yards equating to 8.9 yards per reception as if he Calvin Johnson Jr. I mean Welker needs 1 more touchdown this season to tie what Amendola has in 5 years in the NFL.

If you consider the player currently tied for the NFL lead in receptions and is 4th in the NFL in punt return average to not even be close to Danny Amendola I worry you may soon go into a diabetic coma from drinking too much of the Kool-Aid.

 

[Brady6]

The answer is Amendola, and it isn't even close.

Could you provide me with something to support your belief? Because your post doesn’t really sway my vote one way or another, I have to assume given the certainty you conveyed in your post that you have significant data and context to support your view and was just waiting for someone to ask you.

 

[Brady6]

Currentlly the top possibility for my epitath.

It is not even that you have to be gentler, but if you want to make a statement like that you should at least provide something to support it, to expect that you can just disagree by making some abrupt comment and have that hold any merit in my mind as anything other than barbaric is absurd Andy. If you disagree with something I say or a question I ask that is fine but we’re both grown men do not come at me as if my question is not even worthy of anything other than a response that suggests disgust. Do I ever treat you with that level of disrespect Andy, ever?

 

[mgteich]

I'm with andy on this. It happens every month or so.

I trust that you will continue to have some folks consider basing positions on combines and stats as you do. As is the case with folks who discuss Madden or fantasy football, these discussions are interesting to some.

As you know from recent threads, my focus is about positioning ourselves to win football games, and to be in the best shape for the playoffs. Frankly, we've listened to the idea of Edelman being a top receiver since he came into the league. I'm fine with you believing this based on his stats for four games. I'm not buying then or now.

For me, I believe that Danny Amendola will be Brady's wide receiver crutch in the slot as soon as he is healthy. No quarterback has a better combination in the slot than Gronkowski and Amendola (and yes, I still think that Gronk-Welker was an even better a combination).
=========

THE "REAL" QUESTION FOR ME

What I don't know is how Edelman will be used when everyone is back. Edelman was a potential #2/#3 last year before he was injured. He has shown that ability again. IMHO, both Thompkins and Amendola are ahead of Edelman in the depth chart, as it should be.

The real question for me is who we want on the field in addition to Gronk, Amendola and Thompkins. If healthy, I would have these three on the field almost always.

So, for me, it is Edelman or Dobson or Boyce or a 2nd TE. I think a lot will depend on game plan and game situation.

You’re talking about a guy who’s career stats amount to 206 receptions for 1830 yards equating to 8.9 yards per reception as if he Calvin Johnson Jr. I mean Welker needs 1 more touchdown this season to tie what Amendola has in 5 years in the NFL.

If you consider the player currently tied for the NFL lead in receptions and is 4th in the NFL in punt return average to not even be close to Danny Amendola I worry you may soon go into a diabetic coma from drinking too much of the Kool-Aid.

 

[ausbacker]

Amendola but I'd be happy to have them on the field at the same time.

It's nice to have this discussion. The Patriots could very well end up with a log jam at WR by the end of the season. Amendola, Edelman, Dobson, Thompkins and hopefully an improving Boyce give rise to more hope than the Patriots have had in some time at the position. Hell, I'm looking forward to seeing what T.J. Moe brings to the table next year.

 

[mgteich]

We could have a logjam as early as next week or certainly as we come out of the bye. The situation may not wait for the end of the season.

Who do we want in the game in 2 TE sets, in WR sets and in goal-line situations?

Last year, we very soon knew that Welker and Lloyd would be in the game in 2 WR situations, and that the 3rd WR would play in 3 WR sets, but have a very minor role. We counted on two wide receivers.

This year, we have four WR's that we have counted on already (Amendola, Thompkins, Edelman and Dobson), and one in the wings (Boyce).

The very happy situation of having plenty of WR's who we can count on is now upon us, or will be as soon as Amendola is back.

And before some folks jump on me for counting on Dobson or Boyce so early, I am fine with Amendola, Thompkins as our top 2 and Edelman as our #3 (as long as he is available).

Amendola but I'd be happy to have them on the field at the same time.

It's nice to have this discussion. The Patriots could very well end up with a log jam at WR by the end of the season. Amendola, Edelman, Dobson, Thompkins and hopefully an improving Boyce gives rise to more hope than the Patriots have had in some time at the position. Hell, I'm looking forward to seeing what T.J. Moe brings to the table next year.

 

[Brady6]

Re: Re: 100% Health - Amendola or Edelman in the slot?

I'm with andy on this. It happens every month or so.

I trust that you will continue to have some folks consider basing positions on combines and stats as you do. As is the case with folks who discuss Madden or fantasy football, these discussions are interesting to some.

As you know from recent threads, my focus is about positioning ourselves to win football games, and to be in the best shape for the playoffs. Frankly, we've listened to the idea of Edelman being a top receiver since he came into the league. I'm fine with you believing this based on his stats for four games. I'm not buying then or now.

For me, I believe that Danny Amendola will be Brady's wide receiver crutch in the slot as soon as he is healthy. No quarterback has a better combination in the slot than Gronkowski and Amendola (and yes, I still think that Gronk-Welker was an even better a combination).
=========

THE "REAL" QUESTION FOR ME

What I don't know is how Edelman will be used when everyone is back. Edelman was a potential #2/#3 last year before he was injured. He has shown that ability again. IMHO, both Thompkins and Amendola are ahead of Edelman in the depth chart, as it should be.

The real question for me is who we want on the field in addition to Gronk, Amendola and Thompkins. If healthy, I would have these three on the field almost always.

So, for me, it is Edelman or Dobson or Boyce or a 2nd TE. I think a lot will depend on game plan and game situation.

I think you're putting a lot of stock in Amendola as a player and I'm not exactly sure what you can base it on other than stats and athletic metrics? I say this because unless you pay for a package you very rarely see the Rams on national television so unless I'm missing something you've concluded Amendola to be part the a top slot combination in the NFL.

Would you care to explain why you have this view?

 

[ALP]

I agree there is no proof that Danny is easily the answer over Edelman...there are no facts to show this

We believe we know edelmans ceiling, but we do not know Danny's so we all hope Danny is better...but we don't know

Do I believe there will be situations that warrant having both on the field? Absolutely...bu I don't know enough to list them, do I believe that with Danny and Gronk on the field Edelman should be next? No clue...maybe he is better than KT or Dobson outside, who knows?

Maybe the fact that both can act as slot guys, running slot type routes will b a boon, bc the the defense won't know beforehand which one will act as slot and which one will act as outside receiver (and thereby the D won't know which one is running what kind of route)

With just welker in years past 90% chance he ran one of like 4 routes, now that number grows for these guys, since they're more flexible and can be used outside

I'm saying I won't be surprised at the end of the season if the most productive receiver is Gronk, Danny, Edelman, KT, or Dobson...I wouldn't put my money on Boyce this year from what I've seen so far, but the other 5 can end the season in any order

 

[SVN]

edelman will split with dobson/thompkins in a 3WR 1TE package. Amendola + thompkins +edelman. in a 2WR package, really depends on the situation. 3rd and 3/4/5 will see edelman .Longer distances maybe dobson

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

Currentlly the top possibility for my epitath.

.........

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

"Julie" is currently tied for the most receptions in the league and is the most valuable WR currently playing for the Patriots. And while the comparison of years past clearly shows DA is the superior receiver, given "Julie's" incredible production and value I find it a harder question to answer than a quick dismissal of "Julie" by some.

Only when DA takes the field and shows the DA for the Rams will be the DA+ for the Patriots is when I can quickly and dismissively answer the DA v JE question. I guess past production on another team doesn't make me think he is immediately the superior producer on the Patriots.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

We could have a logjam as early as next week or certainly as we come out of the bye. The situation may not wait for the end of the season.

Who do we want in the game in 2 TE sets, in WR sets and in goal-line situations?

Last year, we very soon knew that Welker and Lloyd would be in the game in 2 WR situations, and that the 3rd WR would play in 3 WR sets, but have a very minor role. We counted on two wide receivers.

This year, we have four WR's that we have counted on already (Amendola, Thompkins, Edelman and Dobson), and one in the wings (Boyce).

The very happy situation of having plenty of WR's who we can count on is now upon us, or will be as soon as Amendola is back.

And before some folks jump on me for counting on Dobson or Boyce so early, I am fine with Amendola, Thompkins as our top 2 and Edelman as our #3 (as long as he is available).

Kind of a hilarious situation given only 4 weeks ago 3/4 of Patriot Nation, when they would think about the WR situation, would go out on a ledge and contemplate jumping.

 

[mgteich]

Either Belichick has made the biggest personnel mistake in the past 5 years or Amendola is in the same class of receiver of Welker, although perhaps more prone to injury. I choose the latter.

Amendola has the reputation of being one of the best slot receivers in the league. I believe that you are one of the very few who put Edelman in that class.

You will not convince me by looking into combine stats, your usual first choice of support, or the stats of the past four games.+. I will be convinced by how the players contribute on the field through the rest of the season. I also suggest that we can best judge who is performing best not by stats but by how Belichick chooses to use the players as the season progressing. I trust Belichick's judgement much more than ours when assessing when someone is doing the job or not, and how well. There is no stat that measure how well a receiver runs his routes and does his job.

So the bottom line is that we cannot agree. We do not have similar bases on which to judge.

Of course, if Amendola is healthy for a couple of games, and Edelman is getting more reps after the bye, then I will agree with your assessment.

For now, we disagree. That's fine.

I think you're putting a lot of stock in Amendola as a player and I'm not exactly sure what you can base it on other than stats and athletic metrics? I say this because unless you pay for a package you very rarely see the Rams on national television so unless I'm missing something you've concluded Amendola to be part the a top slot combination in the NFL.

Would you care to explain why you have this view?

 

[DocHoliday]

Certainly Amendola is probably the better WR, but I question whether he is *currently* the best Patriots WR since he has effectively only played one half of a game.

Edelman with his momentum right now vs a fresh off injury Amendola that needed some corrections by Brady in his only outing so far?

Ehhh, Edelman for now.