2008 Draft Discussion Thread

[Sicilian]

Unless Jerod Mayo is going to play CB, I don't see Hobbs or Wheatley stopping Buress in the endzone. But I'm sure because they are Patriots now, height magically doesn't matter.

Fernando Bryant 5'11"
Lewis Sanders 6'1"
Mike Richardson 5'11"
Brendon Meriweather 5'11"

Not pro bowlers, not exactly basketball forwards, but they're also not 5'9" and if BB feels that height becomes more important on a particular play he can certainly use any of the above.

Not to mention our two best corners of the past 7 years were Ty Law 5'11" and Asante Samuel 5'10"

Next complaint.

 

[Deus Irae]

I can usually understand why so many people are negative about the Pats drafts, but for the life of me I don't understand where the negativity for these two picks is coming from.

Before the draft the consensus was LB and CB were the needs. So they take:

A young, versatile, ILB, who the FO clearly loves.
A corner/KR who the FO clearly feels is a better choice than King, Thomas, Smith, etc.
A high 3rd round pick, for a low 5th round pick.

Well, when you reach for players when there are better players on the board and you take players 2 rounds before they are expected to be taken, you have to expect that not everyone will be singing "Hosanna!" as a result.

In the end, Belioli usually have the last laugh. However, Bethel Johnsons happen even to the best teams and scouts.

 

[Lampshade]

Well, when you reach for players when there are better players on the board, you have to expect that not everyone will be singing "Hosanna!" as a result.

Are you really that arrogant?

 

[VJCPatriot]

Course you don't because you don't understand that they can OUT-LEAP Burress in the Endzone. And, well, that means that, when one isn't playing with a torn GROIN, he's able to make the pick.

But, hey, you keep going on about the size of Wheatley and Hobbs. Forget about the fact that many of the best CBs are in the 5'9-5'11 range and not in the 6'1-6'3 range.

ROFL only in your fever induced fantasies would these guys outleap Buress. The dude is already 6'5 and also has an incredible vertical. But yeah, whatever makes you sleep better at night, keep telling yourself that Hobbs would have outleaped Burress. We all know that he DIDN'T.

At the NFL Scouting Combine in Indianapolis, Burress came in at 6-5 1/2 and 231 pounds. Just as impressive, he touched 10 feet, 8 inches in the vertical jump. Most cornerbacks don't see 10-8 on a pogo stick. In the evolution of the oversized receiver, Burress dearly represents the latest mutation.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1208/is_15_224/ai_61635857

 

[Deus Irae]

Are you really that arrogant?

Arrogance has nothing to do with it. Do try to get a clue.

 

[Sicilian]

Well, when you reach for players when there are better players on the board and you take players 2 rounds before they are expected to be taken, you have to expect that not everyone will be singing "Hosanna!" as a result.

In the end, Belioli usually have the last laugh. However, Bethel Johnsons happen even to the best teams and scouts.

I agree I was surprised, but these are only reaches if you go by the "experts" draft boards. I'm going to bet if any of these guys tried applying for an NFL GM position they'd get laughed out of the building.

Every team has it's own board. The Pats saw Wheatley as their guy. Will it work out, who knows? But I'm not going to call it a reach when I don't have access to the Patriots scouting notes.

 

[Seneschal2]

Yes King from Penn State. He was the #52 player on Gosselin's board and the #8 corner (Godrey at #10), so Kiper and Gosselin agreed. Gosselin had Wheatley as the #15 corner.

Since when do their opinions matter on which CB best fits the Pats system?
Gosselin had Wheatley ranked #96 which places him in round three. The Pack took Lee at #60 and the Giants took Terrell at #62. How do we know that Wheatley would make it to the Pats next pick in round three?

I even had him ranked in round three, but was fully aware that in order to get the players who fit, you can't always adhere to consensus rankings. Prior to him being picked, I posted a list of available prospects using Gosselin's top 100. He was on that list in bold -- even though he was ranked at #96. Why? Simply because he's a Pats-type player who could be considered -- even at #62.

 

[DaBruinz]

Well, when you reach for players when there are better players on the board and you take players 2 rounds before they are expected to be taken, you have to expect that not everyone will be singing "Hosanna!" as a result.

In the end, Belioli usually have the last laugh. However, Bethel Johnsons happen even to the best teams and scouts.

How do we know that there were better players than Wheatley on the PATRIOTS board? Who cares wtf Mel Kiper and the others estimate players. Kiper was the one touting the likes of Connor, Thomas and Sweed as can't miss 1st round picks. Last I looked, Connor hasn't been drafted and there was no WR taken in the 1st round.

The Pats have always taken players based on THEIR board. Not anyone else's. They don't reach. They draft based on their own evaluations of the players. Could a scout have been sold on Wheatley and convinced them to draft him? Yes. But, Wheatley also was interviewed by Pees and BB. So, I am fairly confident that the Patriots got a player that they feel is going to be effective in their DEFENSE. You know. The part of the game where BB is amongst the best ALL TIME. So, comparison's to Bethel Johnson are extremely premature and really not a valid comparison since Bethel was a WR.

 

[Deus Irae]

How do we know that there were better players than Wheatley on the PATRIOTS board? Who cares wtf Mel Kiper and the others estimate players. Kiper was the one touting the likes of Connor, Thomas and Sweed as can't miss 1st round picks. Last I looked, Connor hasn't been drafted and there was no WR taken in the 1st round.

The Pats have always taken players based on THEIR board. Not anyone else's. They don't reach. They draft based on their own evaluations of the players. Could a scout have been sold on Wheatley and convinced them to draft him? Yes. But, Wheatley also was interviewed by Pees and BB. So, I am fairly confident that the Patriots got a player that they feel is going to be effective in their DEFENSE. You know. The part of the game where BB is amongst the best ALL TIME. So, comparison's to Bethel Johnson are extremely premature and really not a valid comparison since Bethel was a WR.

You know better than this DaBruinz. The word "reach" isn't about a specific team's board. It's about taking players higher than the general consensus has him going.

 

[Lampshade]

Arrogance has nothing to do with it. Do try to get a clue.

I guess you are that arrogant.

Writing quite so definitively about "better players" is the height of arrogance.

How did you feel about the Logan Mankins pick? The Richard Seymour pick?

 

[Lampshade]

You know better than this DaBruinz. The word "reach" isn't about a specific team's board. It's about taking players higher than the general consensus has him going.

Then why not do away with teams making their own picks, and just use the first published mock as the official draft?

 

[DaBruinz]

ROFL only in your fever induced fantasies would these guys outleap Buress. The dude is already 6'5 and also has an incredible vertical. But yeah, whatever makes you sleep better at night, keep telling yourself that Hobbs would have outleaped Burress. We all know that he DIDN'T.

At the NFL Scouting Combine in Indianapolis, Burress came in at 6-5 1/2 and 231 pounds. Just as impressive, he touched 10 feet, 8 inches in the vertical jump. Most cornerbacks don't see 10-8 on a pogo stick. In the evolution of the oversized receiver, Burress dearly represents the latest mutation.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1208/is_15_224/ai_61635857

So, let me get this straight. Burress, who is 6'5 and has an arm length of 34 inches or so, was able to jump up and ONLY touch the 10'8 mark? Should I be impressed with that? Putting his arm up he damn near touches 10 foot.
Also, Hobbs jumped 42 inches for his vertical.

BTW, SFBs, Hobbs didn't outjump Burress because he was playing with a friggin sports hernia. Or do you think that has no bearing on Hobbs ability? I mean, everyone who actually follows this team knows that Hobbs had the sports hernia and its why he was not on kick returns at the end of the season.

 

[dhamz]

I don't recall Hobbs and Burress having a jump ball in the Super Bowl. It certainly wasn't one on the final TD where Burress simply beat him and height wasn't a factor.

 

[Solaris]

How do we know that there were better players than Wheatley on the PATRIOTS board? Who cares wtf Mel Kiper and the others estimate players. Kiper was the one touting the likes of Connor, Thomas and Sweed as can't miss 1st round picks. Last I looked, Connor hasn't been drafted and there was no WR taken in the 1st round.

The Pats have always taken players based on THEIR board. Not anyone else's. They don't reach. They draft based on their own evaluations of the players. Could a scout have been sold on Wheatley and convinced them to draft him? Yes. But, Wheatley also was interviewed by Pees and BB. So, I am fairly confident that the Patriots got a player that they feel is going to be effective in their DEFENSE. You know. The part of the game where BB is amongst the best ALL TIME. So, comparison's to Bethel Johnson are extremely premature and really not a valid comparison since Bethel was a WR.

Bingo! It's funny listening to all the draftnicks ***** and moan each year but while a player may be a very good player, he may not be a very good player in this system.

 

[DaBruinz]

You know better than this DaBruinz. The word "reach" isn't about a specific team's board. It's about taking players higher than the general consensus has him going.

Sorry. You're wrong. The word "reach" (in this case) is used by the general consensus to describe a team taking a player that doesn't fit into their uneducated opinions on what should happen in the draft.

The Pats "reached" for numerous players since BB has been here. That includes Deion Branch, Bethel Johnson, Ben Watson, and Logan Mankins.

 

[Horace's Ivories]

I even had him ranked in round three, but was fully aware that in order to get the players who fit, you can't always adhere to consensus rankings. Prior to him being picked, I posted a list of available prospects using Gosselin's top 100. He was on that list in bold -- even though he was ranked at #96. Why? Simply because he's a Pats-type player who could be considered -- even at #62.

What's impressive is his production considering all the injuries. He seems very tough and his good ball skills will be welcome in NE. Hope his fused wrist doesnt get in the way. I like the pick alot...

 

[Deus Irae]

I guess you are that arrogant.

Writing quite so definitively about "better players" is the height of arrogance.

How did you feel about the Logan Mankins pick? The Richard Seymour pick?

1.) If I meant "better" in that I thought they were better, that would be called an opinion.

2.) Mayo was rated below many other players in the draft. By no means was he a unanimous top 10 pick. People who had him rated lower would not be happy that he was picked there.

It's how the draft works. It's not arrogant to have a different opinion than someone else. If there was only one evaluation, they wouldn't need a draft, would they? They could just slot every player and assign them to the individual teams.

 

[Deus Irae]

Sorry. You're wrong. The word "reach" (in this case) is used by the general consensus to describe a team taking a player that doesn't fit into their uneducated opinions on what should happen in the draft.

The Pats "reached" for numerous players since BB has been here. That includes Deion Branch, Bethel Johnson, Ben Watson, and Logan Mankins.

Many people who help form this consensus are far from 'uneducated'. Your comment about that is absurd.

 

[DaBruinz]

Many people who help form this consensus are far from 'uneducated'. Your comment about that is absurd.

Yes. They are so valued that the Patriots don't bother to use them. Neither do the Ravens. And I believe there are a couple of other teams as well.

So, the only thing that is ABSURD is you claiming that their opinions mean a damn thing.

 

[Patriot Missile]

What's impressive is his production considering all the injuries. He seems very tough and his good ball skills will be welcome in NE. Hope his fused wrist doesnt get in the way. I like the pick alot...

Very interesting that most of his profiles describe his hips as explosive and fluid. Those will aid him as his ball skills improve. It will be interesting watching this kid. Asante Samuel was a 4th or 5th rounder not so long ago. Even though those types of players come around not so often,you never know.