Looking to 2008: Linebackers

[fumbrunner]

Slowly I am beginning to refocus on the next season and wondering what the Pats will do with one area that we all know needs some changes.

What will the Pats do with the Linebacker position. There is a debate as to whether Seau and Bruschi will retire (or be asked to retire). Another thing to look at is Vrabel's drop off after Rosie went down. Finally, there is the percieved ineffectiveness (incorrect preception in my opinion) of Adalius Thomas.

What will the Pats do?

My thoughts are as follows. Vrabel and Colvin make an outstanding duo at outside LB. Obviously Vrabel had a drop off, but with Colvin in there, he is a beast. We are likely set there, assuming that both signed and healthy.

Inside linebacker is the big question mark. I do not see Bruschi back. I do see Seau, who made some big plays throughout the year, back for another year. That means AD goes back inside, where his size and athleticism is best used.

So, despite everyone's predictions of the Pats aggressively addressing the LB position with FA signings (Karlos Dansby) being mentioned, I think they will opt for depth players rather than signing a stud. Dansby's teammate Calvin Pace may be a cheaper option and a good one at that. Had a breakout year with 98 tackles, 6.5 sacks, 6 PD and a pick. He is listed at 6' 4" 270 and would be a good option as a third OLB. Depth at ILB? Well, is it time to bring one of the young guys up?

I dont see BB and Pioli drafting a high LB since historically they have looked at the FA market for LBs.
Thoughts?

 

[Watson's IQ]

I agree with your sentiments. I'm going to assume for the purposes of this discussion that Rosie is not a cap casualty, although I know that some have mentioned him as a possible candidate.

I think anyone who is looking for the Patriots to be in on any of the big FA linebackers (Dansby, Briggs) is kidding themselves. They went that route last year with Thomas, I don't think they will again. Not saying those aren't nice players, I just think you're more likely to see BB bring in some veteran backups to fill that last hole. I also think you'll see guys like Woods getting a look in mini camp to see if they can fit that fourth hole.

As for the draft, many have suggested that the Patriots will look LB at #7, with Gholston being the name that is most often mentioned. While it's not out of the realm of possibility, I don't think that BB's draft track record lends itself to this. I'm sure he'd either prefer to bring in veterans who know the 3-4 or draft a "Patriots type guy" later on. I'm also of the belief that DB is a far more likely target at #7.

I personally would not mind at all if Bruschi AND Seau were back next season. The reason they were both exposed somewhat this year is because they were asked to play far more than they should have, as necessitated by the Colvin injury. I think if they're sharing time, they're likely to be at least somewhat effective.

Concluding, I'm not sure it's a bad idea to go status quo in 2008, with Rosie, Vrabel, Thomas, and a Seau/Bruschi time share. Of course, I'd couch that by saying you need to bring in a guy or two in the draft you can begin to transition in, and maybe a strong veteran backup who can step in fulltime in case of injury. Count me among those that believe we're not in an unenviable position LB-wise, at least for next season. Each year you project out, it becomes more of a concern, but I think BB will address it.

 

[reflexblue]

I've thought about this over the last couple of weeks and have come to the conclusion that Covin is a better OLB than Thomas. I could really see a difference in the pressure on the QB after Colvin was lost. In most games he was a force pressuring the QB I didn't relize how good he was until he got hurt. I think he should stay at OLB. I think that Seau has something left in the tank,I don't think (as much as I hate to say it) Teddy B does, IMO he needs to be replaced.

 

[Dino 6 Rings]

Larenitus from OSU, First Round...to the Pats...

AJ Hawk in Greenbay has proven one thing...OSU Linebackers are ready to play at the NFL level, on day one.

I hate it, but that's where I think the Pats are going to get their LB help.

 

[Watson's IQ]

Larenitus from OSU, First Round...to the Pats...

AJ Hawk in Greenbay has proven one thing...OSU Linebackers are ready to play at the NFL level, on day one.

I hate it, but that's where I think the Pats are going to get their LB help.

He's going back to OSU.

 

[fumbrunner]

Larenitus from OSU, First Round...to the Pats...

AJ Hawk in Greenbay has proven one thing...OSU Linebackers are ready to play at the NFL level, on day one.

I hate it, but that's where I think the Pats are going to get their LB help.

First, get is name right and second he declared that he is going back to school.

 

[shakadave]

Of course, I'd couch that by saying you need to bring in a guy or two in the draft you can begin to transition in, and maybe a strong veteran backup who can step in fulltime in case of injury.

Bruschi can be this veteran backup at the very least. He had his moments in the postseason, and didn't seem to be the liability he sometimes looked like during the regular season.

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

I think we're largely OK.

I assume Colvin will be back, hopefully with a 4 year deal and some cap savings.

That gives us Colvin and Vrabel outside.
Thomas inside. Hopefully one or both of Seau or Bruschi returns and are starters are largely set, especially if both return.

We do need to get a backup ILB with some upside - maybe this could be Lua, maybe not.

We also need the same at OLB - I have renewed confidence this could be Woods as they were willing to give him at least a little playing time in the Super Bowl.

I'm much more concerned about the secondary, replacing Samuel and getting more speed at Safety. Hopefully Meriweather can continue to be part of that speed at Safety upgrade.

 

[Watson's IQ]

Bruschi can be this veteran backup at the very least. He had his moments in the postseason, and didn't seem to be the liability he sometimes looked like during the regular season.

I was assuming a Bruschi/Seau platoon opposite Thomas in the middle. Assuming both come back, I really don't want to get into another situation where one of the other guys goes down and both Seau and Bruschi are forced to play way more snaps. So I'm talking about another veteran backup in addition to Bruschi who can step in if needed.

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

First, get is name right and second he declared that he is going back to school.

And third is that he's a downfield tackler which isn't a good thing for a LB. I doubt we'd draft him even if he were coming out.

 

[fumbrunner]

I dunno guys, there is no question we have a good run stopping LB group with Bruschi and Seau. Coverage has not been great. At some point Seau and Bruschi will retire. Would it not be better to have one go in one year, another in another rather than losing both at the same time?

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

I dunno guys, there is no question we have a good run stopping LB group with Bruschi and Seau. Coverage has not been great. At some point Seau and Bruschi will retire. Would it not be better to have one go in one year, another in another rather than losing both at the same time?

Thomas is a fine coverage ILB - unfortunately he had to be moved out of that spot. Get him back in there to help with LB drops in coverage and Meriweather in to give us more speed at Safety and things should look better over the middle.

 

[fumbrunner]

Thomas is a fine coverage ILB - unfortunately he had to be moved out of that spot. Get him back in there to help with LB drops in coverage and Meriweather in to give us more speed at Safety and things should look better over the middle.

So, does that mean that the Pats will pursue an OLB in free agency, for depth purposes and to avoid a repeat of this year?

 

[Dino 6 Rings]

First, get is name right and second he declared that he is going back to school.

Apologize for my mispelling of his name. Laurinaitis.

I also apologize for my lack of paying attention to the Mock Drafts...since every single Draft I've seen has us taking an OT, I've gotten bored with them...I mean, if Felix Jones is on the Board, and we have the need for 1. A Punt Returner, 2. A fast back up Running back and 3. Someone to split out on 4 and 5 wide that is used to catching the ball...why not draft him! But my fellow Steeler fans think OT OT OT...and won't even listen.

I have had my NFL and Football news turned "off" since the Title games, so I've missed a lot.

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

So, does that mean that the Pats will pursue an OLB in free agency, for depth purposes and to avoid a repeat of this year?

I think it depends on Woods. Honestly, I figured they had given up on him as an OLB when Thomas moved outside fulltime with Colvin out. The fact that they gave Woods a series in the Super Bowl gives me renewed hope that he might be that guy - this was only his second year. But if Woods is just going to be a ST guy I would expect another OLB, whether it's a veteran or a fairly high draft choice. Even without injuries we would do well to have a third guy to rotate in with Vrabel and Colvin not getting any younger.

 

[SoonerPatriot]

I definately want Bruschi and Seau back, but not as starters. Neither can cover in passing situations at this stage of their careers. The ILB free-agent class is very thin. One site had Bruschi and Seau as the top two and Simenoueu from Philly as No. 3.

So then you look to the draft (or far less likely a trade) and see if you can pick up a body or two to put into the mix. Colvin and Vrabel will still be very effective from the outside. Ditto for Thomas inside. But IMO they need a third body (at least) in the rotation at ILB. That could be Lua, and a draft pick.

I don't think they will give up on Woods because he can play special teams and he was a project to begin with. They key is he made progress.

My main concern is the secondary. I thought Andy Johnson had a pretty good take on that yesterday.

 

[fumbrunner]

I definately want Bruschi and Seau back, but not as starters. Neither can cover in passing situations at this stage of their careers. The ILB free-agent class is very thin. One site had Bruschi and Seau as the top two and Simenoueu from Philly as No. 3.

So then you look to the draft (or far less likely a trade) and see if you can pick up a body or two to put into the mix. Colvin and Vrabel will still be very effective from the outside. Ditto for Thomas inside. But IMO they need a third body (at least) in the rotation at ILB. That could be Lua, and a draft pick.

I don't think they will give up on Woods because he can play special teams and he was a project to begin with. They key is he made progress.

My main concern is the secondary. I thought Andy Johnson had a pretty good take on that yesterday.

I don't think Lua is quite ready yet to play an active role. His playing time may increase next year, but to slot him in in a rotation of Seau and Thomas is premature.

 

[ATippett56]

Here's a good start to the 2008 NFL Season:

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showpost.php?p=789055&postcount=19

2008 New England Patriots starting linebackers

OLB Mike Vrabel
ILB Adalius Thomas
ILB Rookie (refer to draft list noted above)
OLB Rosevelt Colvin

 

[makewayhomer]

I've thought about this over the last couple of weeks and have come to the conclusion that Covin is a better OLB than Thomas.

without doing in-depth breakdowns of game tape and knowing what the responsibilities of each player were on each play, it's impossible for you to judge the relative effectiveness of each player.

you see sacks and think "ZOMG awesome!!!" but there is a whole lot more to the game than that, and as common fans we just can't judge LB's. the game is far too complex for that.

that's why the team has an entire department of football experts with access with far more information than we have

 

[Watson's IQ]

I also apologize for my lack of paying attention to the Mock Drafts...since every single Draft I've seen has us taking an OT, I've gotten bored with them...I mean, if Felix Jones is on the Board, and we have the need for 1. A Punt Returner, 2. A fast back up Running back and 3. Someone to split out on 4 and 5 wide that is used to catching the ball...why not draft him! But my fellow Steeler fans think OT OT OT...and won't even listen.

Getting off topic for a second, I think if you're looking for that guy, it's Chris Johnson from ECU, and he can be had further down in the draft than Jones. Than again, I'm hoping the Pats take him.

As for the point about Bruschi and Seau retiring at the same time, I don't think it makes much of a difference. I expect BB to draft a LBer in the 2nd-4th round, a "Patriots Guy" and begin to groom that guy to take the other ILB spot in a couple years.