What is our plan for ILB?

[Thelonious]

Vrabel's not going to abandon his defensive philosophy just because some fans don't like undersized WILL LB'ers playing primarily in the middle. WILL LB'ers and Strong Safeties are nearly identical in many cases. So I don't see the problem.

I don't see a problem either. I am not proposing that Vrabel or anybody on the staff "abandon their defensive philosophy" because I assume they are smart enough to adapt that philosophy, to find a way of implementing it, in a manner which will work with the personnel on hand at ILB or anywhere else. I assume, that is, that they will not go into a butthurt tailspin is they have a defensive roster which is less than ideal, which it never will be.

 

[Wozzy]

I don't see a problem either. I am not proposing that Vrabel or anybody on the staff "abandon their defensive philosophy" because I assume they are smart enough to adapt that philosophy, to find a way of implementing it, in a manner which will work with the personnel on hand at ILB or anywhere else. I assume, that is, that they will not go into a butthurt tailspin is they have a defensive roster which is less than ideal, which it never will be.

Yeah, I was referring to the comment by a prior poster about not converting former safeties.

Frankly I think Muma and Obiazor represent much more potential upside in the LB'er room to what they had last year in Gibbens and Tavai. They're more athletic now on paper than they were at any point last season.

 

[rkarp1]

You specifically said “nobody said” something when somebody had. Per usual, in your rush to disagree with Wozzy, you couldn’t even be bothered to read the conversation being had.

What “top guys” from the LB group did they lose? Those weren’t top guys, they were lesser players potentially much improved upon.

Last year: Spillane, Ellis, Gibbens, Tavai and Mapu who barely played defense.

Versus

This Year: Spillane, Ellis, Muma, Obiazor, Declan Williams, Britt

How are they thin unless both rookies suck outright? They could find some value vet after camp cutdowns. This unit simply needs to stay healthy and develop a young guy.

Gibbons played 48% of the defensive snaps. Jennings 28% and Tavai 22%. Mapu 12%
from last seasons top 6 players for LB defensive snaps, 4 are no longer on the team

thats thin

 

[Wozzy]

Gibbons played 48% of the defensive snaps. Jennings 28% and Tavai 22%. Mapu 12%
from last seasons top 6 players for LB defensive snaps, 4 are no longer on the team

thats thin

Gibbens wasn’t strong enough to play MLB when Spillane went down, nor athletic enough to play WILL LB when Ellis got dinged up. He was a warm body. They got a good look at Muma at the end of last season, he’s a much better option.

Tavai is old and slow, he was never athletic enough to begin with… so age ruined any value he had going forward. Anybody is a better option at this point, two rookies with fresh legs are better.

Mapu didn’t play defense, so who cares he’s gone. Again Muma played a lot of special teams, so will the rookie they stick with. Mapu never developed into the player many of us hoped he would.

Jennings is an outside linebacker, he’s not even in this conversation.

 

[rkarp1]

Gibbens wasn’t strong enough to play MLB when Spillane went down, nor athletic enough to play WILL LB when Ellis got dinged up. He was a warm body. They got a good look at Muma at the end of last season, he’s a much better option.

Tavai is old and slow, he was never athletic enough to begin with… so age ruined any value he had going forward. Anybody is a better option at this point, two rookies with fresh legs are better.

Mapu didn’t play defense, so who cares he’s gone. Again Muma played a lot of special teams, so will the rookie they stick with. Mapu never developed into the player many of us hoped he would.

Jennings is an outside linebacker, he’s not even in this conversation.

if you are depending on Muma and rookies, then you are agreeing with me. thin

 

[Wozzy]

if you are depending on Muma and rookies, then you are agreeing with me. thin

If you are telling me Gibbens, Tavai and Mapu are big losses, but more athletic Muma and rookies are worse… then no, I’m clearly not agreeing with you.

No team has 3 All Pros sitting on their bench behind the starters. Dumb. They have young developmental players and special teams specialists.

 

[rkarp1]

If you are telling me Gibbens, Tavai and Mapu are big losses, but more athletic Muma and rookies are worse… then no, I’m clearly not agreeing with you.

No team has 3 All Pros sitting on their bench behind the starters. Dumb. They have young developmental players and special teams specialists.

I am not telling you any of the 3 are more athletic than Muma.
I am telling you, last year they were better football players for the defense the NE pats played.

I am also telling you that they are big losses for the defense, due to the amount of snaps they played.
you touting Muma for replacing them, when he could not see the field last year, is baffling.

I am not looking for all pro's sitting on the bench. I am looking for back ups that when they get onto the field, they can make plays. Gibbons, Jennings, Tavai and Mapu did just that. Muma did not. Obiazor and Muma for me are not locks for the roster, never mind locks to see defensive snaps.

again. thin.
not not athletic.
thin

 

[Wozzy]

I am not telling you any of the 3 are more athletic than Muma.
I am telling you, last year they were better football players for the defense the NE pats played.

I am also telling you that they are big losses for the defense, due to the amount of snaps they played.
you touting Muma for replacing them, when he could not see the field last year, is baffling.

I am not looking for all pro's sitting on the bench. I am looking for back ups that when they get onto the field, they can make plays. Gibbons, Jennings, Tavai and Mapu did just that. Muma did not. Obiazor and Muma for me are not locks for the roster, never mind locks to see defensive snaps.

again. thin.
not not athletic.
thin

You and everyone else here had zero clue who Jack Gibbens was entering last year… none.

And it’s not surprising, he was an UDFA prospect from a small school who was primarily a special teams player for the Titans. Vrabel knew him, you didn’t.

Muma meanwhile was a third round pick who the coaching staff got a great look at the latter half of last season and decided to move on from Gibbens.

They were thinner last year which was evident when Spillane or Ellis got dinged up and missed time. There was a big drop off to Gibbens and Tavai. Gibbens is a good 4th or 5th LB, Tavai is toast.

You wouldn’t know “thin” if it smacked you upside the head. They’re better entering 2026 than they were entering 2025 where they were AFC Champs.

 

[rkarp1]

You and everyone else here had zero clue who Jack Gibbens was entering last year… none.

And it’s not surprising, he was an UDFA prospect from a small school who was primarily a special teams player for the Titans. Vrabel knew him, you didn’t.

Muma meanwhile was a third round pick who the coaching staff got a great look at the latter half of last season and decided to move on from Gibbens.

They were thinner last year which was evident when Spillane or Ellis got dinged up and missed time. There was a big drop off to Gibbens and Tavai. Gibbens is a good 4th or 5th LB, Tavai is toast.

You wouldn’t know “thin” if it smacked you upside the head. They’re better entering 2026 than they were entering 2025 where they were AFC Champs.

yet Gibbons secured a deal for $7.5m and Muma is on the roster bubble
Gibbons played 48% of the defensive snaps and Muma played 2%

Muma and Obiazor are nowhere near roster locks.
It would not surprise me if the team keeps one or the other
yes. thin
sorry

 

[Wozzy]

yet Gibbons secured a deal for $7.5m and Muma is on the roster bubble

A contract, especially from a bad team, does not signify good or bad. He got 4.5 guaranteed from a team that is consistently bad. Good for him.

Gibbons played 48% of the defensive snaps and Muma played 2%

Gibbens was on the team all season, Muma joined them midseason and had to prove himself with no camp or preseason. Apples/oranges.

When it came time to pay Gibbens they moved on… because frankly he is easily replaced and improved upon.

Muma and Obiazor are nowhere near roster locks.
It would not surprise me if the team keeps one or the other
yes. thin
sorry

Nobody mentioned roster locks. Assuming health the Patriots D is one of the best in the league. The ILB’ers are deeper than they were last year. Realizing you aren’t good behind Spillane, Ellis and searching out better players like Muma, Obiazor and Declan is how you improve. Learn the game.

 

[Thelonious]

Yeah, I was referring to the comment by a prior poster about not converting former safeties.

Frankly I think Muma and Obiazor represent much more potential upside in the LB'er room to what they had last year in Gibbens and Tavai. They're more athletic now on paper than they were at any point last season.

Yep. I feel pretty hopeful following the draft. They didn't fill every need, but considering where they were making their picks, they did pretty well. LB is a tough position these days. They have to be solid both stopping the run and covering passes, which call for quite different mindsets and physical skills. Calls for a real athlete. The ideal LB is a rare bird.

 

[Wozzy]

Yep. I feel pretty hopeful following the draft. They didn't fill every need, but considering where they were making their picks, they did pretty well. LB is a tough position these days. They have to be solid both stopping the run and covering passes, which call for quite different mindsets and physical skills. Calls for a real athlete. The ideal LB is a rare bird.

Their two starting ILB’ers are UDFA’s, so was Gibbens…. health provided I feel pretty good about this group.

 

[Nunchucks]

Grab one of the vet FAs and call it a day

 

[rkarp1]

Grab one of the vet FAs and call it a day

yeah. we saw both Spillane and Ellis miss time last year
Spillane clearly was not 100% in the playoffs
apparently he did not need surgery this offseason.
I need to see more of Muma to feel better about the group in general. he couldn't get a single snap in the playoffs. his only meaningful defensive snaps were in blow out wins.
pretty thin behind Spillane and Ellis at this point. granted early. perhaps a vet FA comes in

 

[mgteich]

Gibbons played 48% of the defensive snaps. Jennings 28% and Tavai 22%. Mapu 12%
from last seasons top 6 players for LB defensive snaps, 4 are no longer on the team

thats thin

1) Jennings was an OLB replaced by Jacas.
2) Most of you seem to like Gibbens a lot. Vrabel disagreed choosing to replace Gibbens with Britt as the primary ILB backup and STer.
3) Obiazor is a straight up replacement for Mapu, a STer and emergency backup at SS/ILB.

SO, IS FOUR ILB'S PLUS FOUR EDGE/OLB ENOUGH OR IS IT THIN?
1) We have Jones, Landry, Jacas and Ponder at OLB/EDGE
2) I suspect that 4 is enough unless Landry can't play.
3) I would expect us to keep 1-2 of Muma, Swinson, Hutchins and Luketa.
4) Plus, one of the primary 4 OLB's might take some inside reps.

REPLACEMENTS
A) Jones for Chaisson,
B) Jacas for Jennings
C) Britt for Gibbens
D) any one of 4 competing to replace Tavai


CONCLUSION
8 plus 4 competing for a spot seems to be OK. Note, that the 9th LB is very unlikely to get many reps on Defense. Consider Muma last year.

I understand that many folks don't agree with Vrabel's choices of Spillane, Ellis and Britt as our primary ILB's.