NFL Trade Deadline Discourse

[dliverey44]

Fair assessment. I want to clarify that while I'm very satisfied with our wr grouping I know and understand we are still a evolving team. We hae accelerated the process with the success so far this season. If we continue to win snd put ourselves in a great post season position then I believe Vrabel has put the organization ahead of schedule. Obtaining a player like AJ takes this offense into another gear wich only makes Drake that much more potent for Defenses to have to handle.

You stated the big thing here, while we and media feel the timeline has sped up I don't think Vrabel feels that way

 

[PatsFan2]

Hawkins at FS
LB position next to Spillane
EDGE rotation outside of Landry/Chaisson
WR rotation outside of Diggs/Boutte (Hollins is actually #2 in snap count ahead of Diggs, who still only plays half the snaps)

Those are the worst starters/high snap count players on our roster right now and there's a clear drop off to whoever the next worst is. We're 5-2 and could argue as high as 2nd in the conference. It's worth considering upgrades - even rentals - at any of those positions IMO.

RB position is highly susceptible to injury as well so even if we aren't playing anyone as inadequate as those players much, it's another position where an addition should be explored.

Hpf: it seems like they're using Tarzan Mack Hollins as a Third Blocking TE thus the premium snaps.

 

[Hugepatsfan]

I'm just incredulous at how people are throwing up on the idea that a team where Mack Hollins is #2 in WR snaps has a need at the WR position. I understand that we're still a productive passing offense. We're also tied for 11th in team sacks which is pretty good yet everyone acknowledges that another DE is a need.

Now if you're saying you don't want to trade for Olave because of concussions - fine. If you don't want to trade for AJ Brown because he's kind of a headcase potentially or just too expensive - tine. If you don't want to trade for Rashid Shaheed because you're vehemently opposed to rentals - I don't agree, but it's not an outrageous stance. Nothing wrongs with opposition to the specific trade targets suggested. If you'd rather give Douglas/Williams/Chism an opportunity to grow into the role that's fine too, though it comes off as homer-ish if you try to pretend like either of them are playing well right now or are showing obvious signs that they're about to explode onto the scene.

Kicking the can on that need might well make sense. But denying that the need at WR does in fact exist on a team where Mack Hollins is #2 in WR snaps is absolute lunacy to me.

 

[Ross12]

Olave's injury history will make him 'cheaper' among the top WRs.

But 'cheaper' is like 30 mil/yr. Which can be done.

$30M a year with lower guarantees and high salaries or roster bonuses that can be gotten out of if he gets hurt badly/frequently.

 

[Ross12]

I'm just incredulous at how people are throwing up on the idea that a team where Mack Hollins is #2 in WR snaps has a need at the WR position. I understand that we're still a productive passing offense. We're also tied for 11th in team sacks which is pretty good yet everyone acknowledges that another DE is a need.

Now if you're saying you don't want to trade for Olave because of concussions - fine. If you don't want to trade for AJ Brown because he's kind of a headcase potentially or just too expensive - tine. If you don't want to trade for Rashid Shaheed because you're vehemently opposed to rentals - I don't agree, but it's not an outrageous stance. Nothing wrongs with opposition to the specific trade targets suggested. If you'd rather give Douglas/Williams/Chism an opportunity to grow into the role that's fine too, though it comes off as homer-ish if you try to pretend like either of them are playing well right now or are showing obvious signs that they're about to explode onto the scene.

Kicking the can on that need might well make sense. But denying that the need at WR does in fact exist on a team where Mack Hollins is #2 in WR snaps is absolute lunacy to me.

Realistically, Mack Hollins should be a part time role player - not someone playing 60% of snaps. He has been fine but he's not a WR #2. Boutte is and he has the most snaps. Diggs at 55-65% feels right at his age and coming off of injury.

 

[Hugepatsfan]

Hpf: it seems like they're using Tarzan Mack Hollins as a Third Blocking TE thus the premium snaps.

That's a factor. Someone posted numbers before the TEN game of 48% 11 personnel (1 TE, 3 WRs) and 38% 22 personnel (2 TEs, 2 WRs). That's 86% of the offense. Hollins as 3rd TE could be a chunk of the remaining 14%, or whatever slightly different number it is after this last game.

That said - Boutte is only playing 71.56% of the offensive snaps on the year and Diggs is at 55.08% and those are up to date through TEN. Adjusted down for his "3rd TE role" and yeah, Hollins probably isn't in the true #2 WR snaps standing he's in now at 58.69%, just ahead of Diggs, but just doing the math there's he's still playing pretty significant snaps.

 

[Ross12]

Pass rushing productivity among pats EDGEs:

Chaisson 10.5 (11th/114)
Landry 8.8 (29th/114)
--------------------------------
White 2.0 (114th/114)
Ponder 2.4 - doesn't qualify
Jennings 1.4 - doesn't qualify

They have nobody to rush the passer on the EDGE after the starters. It's their #1 need at the trade deadline & renting a veteran for a day 3 pick is worth it IMO.

Edge is absolutely the biggest need right now but they're not restricted to only make 1 trade. There's several spots worth adding to.

Maybe I shouldn't say "biggest need" because I think free safety is probably a bigger need but it's not as easy to find a good starting FS as it is to find a decent edge for a rotation.

 

[Rob0729]

Player to keep an eye on is Arden Key. He played for Vrabel in 2023. The Pats need LB and edge rushing help. He has had six or more sacks three of the last four years.

The only question is whether the Titans would trade to the Patriots. There seems to be bad blood between Vrabel and them.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Why are you spending draft capital like a drunken sailor when we are trying to rebuild for the long lived next dynasty?

I doubt we’d keep Olave beyond his fifth year option anyway, on price quite apart from his averaging more than one concussion per year over his NFL career.

There is a contingent of fans here that only care about this season. They are incapable of thinking beyond that.

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

White is so disappointing. I specifically watched him on a few plays. He just bull rushes, makes no attempt to do anything different.

100%.

I did the same yesterday, watched him specifically from snap to whistle on a few plays in a row. He was terrible, basically just ran into the Olineman, and did nothing afterwards. They were all pass rush snaps, so maybe he was better in the run game, but he is absolutely terrible rushing the passer.
Man did I get that one wrong, really thought he was going to be something.

 

[TommyD4207]

You stated the big thing here, while we and media feel the timeline has sped up I don't think Vrabel feels that way

 

[TommyD4207]

Edge is absolutely the biggest need right now but they're not restricted to only make 1 trade. There's several spots worth adding to.

Maybe I shouldn't say "biggest need" because I think free safety is probably a bigger need but it's not as easy to find a good starting FS as it is to find a decent edge for a rotation.

Is it though?
Go get me a real middle linebacker or a Budda Baker and I promise you, the 'need' for EDGE won't seem nearly as high.
Also both EDGEs got a sack yesterday, terrorized poor Cam Ward.

 

[TommyD4207]

Realistically, Mack Hollins should be a part time role player - not someone playing 60% of snaps. He has been fine but he's not a WR #2. Boutte is and he has the most snaps. Diggs at 55-65% feels right at his age and coming off of injury.

They worked Chism in more in the last game in run downs. I don't think Hollins got quite as many snaps as he's been getting - and he was more productive, go figure.

 

[Toofy]

Trying get your opinion: why am I underwhelmed with Gonzo and Davis? I haven't seen Gonzo make a play of impact since Buffalo. Seems like Davis is only noticeable when he gets called for PI. Am I overreacting? I just felt with having 2 great man coverage CBs it would have the pass defense elite. Marcus has probably been the best CB IMO. Gonzo is still an all pro and I don't think any less of him.. just underwhelmed.

I think I also had the same feeling and was hesitant to type this out. But gonzo and Davis are not playing like difference makers . If we are paying something north of 20 million to each of these players , they need to be worth it.

Maybe gonzo is still recovering but it has been underwhelming. I saw one play yesterday where gonzo had the chance to pass break a catch and hit the receiver somewhere else other than where the ball was being held and he was in position to make that play. Again I saw this in slow motion so game speed would be different.

But they are not showing the spark.

 

[TommyD4207]

I'm just incredulous at how people are throwing up on the idea that a team where Mack Hollins is #2 in WR snaps has a need at the WR position. I understand that we're still a productive passing offense. We're also tied for 11th in team sacks which is pretty good yet everyone acknowledges that another DE is a need.

Now if you're saying you don't want to trade for Olave because of concussions - fine. If you don't want to trade for AJ Brown because he's kind of a headcase potentially or just too expensive - tine. If you don't want to trade for Rashid Shaheed because you're vehemently opposed to rentals - I don't agree, but it's not an outrageous stance. Nothing wrongs with opposition to the specific trade targets suggested. If you'd rather give Douglas/Williams/Chism an opportunity to grow into the role that's fine too, though it comes off as homer-ish if you try to pretend like either of them are playing well right now or are showing obvious signs that they're about to explode onto the scene.

Kicking the can on that need might well make sense. But denying that the need at WR does in fact exist on a team where Mack Hollins is #2 in WR snaps is absolute lunacy to me.

We don't need another WR. The Patriots are 2nd in the league in passing, and there are still depth guys who don't get enough run.
Enough with this already.

Yes, you need to get younger at the position for the future, but that doesn't mean MORTGAGING said future this year, just to say you did a thing.

 

[Toofy]

It's a Williams problem, and we saw it on that high throw to him in yesterday's game.

He's late getting in and out of breaks. Seems like a case of paralysis by overanalysis. Needs moar time? Needs moar time.

I saw that . He has speed . He stuttered twice on the deep route and maybe did not expect that .

I think he just needs to use straight line speed for now. I don't understand why he had to give couple of cuts. And the maye deep balls sailed him by 5-8 feet which is the distance he could have covered if he did not brake.

Simplify the routes for Williams and make him just go linear . Let him catch a few of the deep balls to gain some confidence.

 

[TommyD4207]

I saw that . He has speed . He stuttered twice on the deep route and maybe did not expect that .

I think he just needs to use straight line speed for now. I don't understand why he had to give couple of cuts. And the maye deep balls sailed him by 5-8 feet which is the distance he could have covered if he did not brake.

Simplify the routes for Williams and make him just go linear . Let him catch a few of the deep balls to gain some confidence.

They've given him a couple outs. He's been late on the break. The high throw to him against the Titans was into the wind, so it floated, and Williams probably wasn't going to get it anyway, but he broke late (that was also an out) and he didn't spot the ball until it was past him.

 

[Hugepatsfan]

We don't need another WR. The Patriots are 2nd in the league in passing, and there are still depth guys who don't get enough run.
Enough with this already.

Yes, you need to get younger at the position for the future, but that doesn't mean MORTGAGING said future this year, just to say you did a thing.

Our defense was pretty good in 2004. Doesn't mean that Troy Brown should have been brought back as the primary nickel CB. The 2007 offense was pretty damn good, doesn't mean Nick Kaczur wasn't someone to try and improve over at RT. Great units can still have weaknesses. And any position that is a weakness is one the team should be looking to improve.

I don't buy that the depth guys "don't get enough run". If they were good enough to play more than they would play more because the guy in front of them is Mack Hollins. And I like Hollins as a role player down the depth chart but he shouldn't be a starting WR. If he is your starting WR, then you have a need at the position and no coach is going to park emerging youngsters behind him if those guys are truly emerging.

Also, I'm not even saying we should "mortgage the future" for a WR. Like I said in the post you even responded to, kicking the can might make total sense based on who's available and at what price. It probably does considering how useless most NFL trade deadline players actually moved are. And maybe that improvement comes from internal development, particularly Kyle Williams. (I'm iffy that Douglas ever develops into what we need because Diggs belongs in the slot a fair amount and Douglas is slot only so even if Douglas were #3 behind and Diggs/Boutte you'd need someone else rotating in for when you want Diggs in the slot. And then Chism to me is just a back of the roster JAG until I see any real evidence otherwise - which is still a great outcome for him as an UDFA.)

I am not going to allow my intelligence to be insulted though that a team playing Hollins as much as we are doesn't have a need for improvement at WR though. I simply will not allow myself to be brainwashed like that. I'm more than ok if no move happens there and it is a weakness we can overcome, as we have been. It's just idiotic IMO to pretend like we're set there and not at least look.

 

[Hugepatsfan]

They worked Chism in more in the last game in run downs. I don't think Hollins got quite as many snaps as he's been getting - and he was more productive, go figure.

Yesterday was the highest percentage of offensive snaps Hollins has played all year. Against PIT he played more total snaps on offense (46 that day to 43 yesterday) but that was a lower percentage of the total plays (62.2% that day to 66..2% yesterday). So if you think he didn't get as many snaps, your eyes were deceiving you.

 

[Family]

If we got a guy like Olave and he took Hollins' snaps, Williams goes to the gameday inactive list and Hollins/Douglas split Douglas' and Williams' current snap counts, do you really consider that as something that "upsets the current WR structure".

Mack Hollins at WR and Hawkins at FS are probably the two worst high snap count players on our team. I don't see why people are throwing up at the idea that we could stand to improve over Hollins

Sure who gets snaps will look better on paper. And maybe it makes us better. But this group is clicking. They seem to buy into Diggs as a leader. We have a young QB, Leave it alone also because...........................

............we need help in so many other areas. Let's get a safety, linebacker RB, even TE/CB instead.