NFL Trade Deadline Discourse

[Rob0729]

The thing I asked myself is do we really need another receiver at this juncture?

No. I would only consider it is if a true #1 WR who is elite and or could be elite with Maye and is someone who can be with the Pats for the next 3-4 years at least comes available. I am on the fence whether Olave is that guy.

 

[TommyD4207]

They just can't seem to get on the same page. With the way Maye is spreading the ball around to everyone else it makes me think it is more of a Kyle Williams problem than a Maye problem. Not super worried yet as Evan Lazar has said multiple times watching the all-22 Williams is getting open but the connection just isn't there yet.

It's a Williams problem, and we saw it on that high throw to him in yesterday's game.

He's late getting in and out of breaks. Seems like a case of paralysis by overanalysis. Needs moar time? Needs moar time.

 

[Ross12]

Minus the concussion history, please

well yeah, I wouldn't consider personal injury history as part of development lol

 

[PatsFan2]

No. I would only consider it is if a true #1 WR who is elite and or could be elite with Maye and is someone who can be with the Pats for the next 3-4 years at least comes available. I am on the fence whether Olave is that guy.

I have climb over the fence on Chris Olave *Ohio State WR* nuff said! I don't think he would be as expensive as a A.J. Brown.

 

[TommyD4207]

I have climb over the fence on Chris Olave *Ohio State WR* nuff said! I don't think he would be as expensive as a A.J. Brown.

Of course not. He comes with 5 concussions.

 

[PatsFan2]

It's a Williams problem, and we saw it on that high throw to him in yesterday's game.

He's late getting in and out of breaks. Seems like a case of paralysis by overanalysis. Needs moar time? Needs moar time.

Hopes he gets' it by the Second a half: can't bare the thought of a Rookie WR being unproductive with decent playing time.

 

[PatsFan2]

Of course not. He comes with 5 concussions.

You need to lighten up Tommy piss me off!!

 

[TommyD4207]

You need to lighten up Tommy piss me off!!

Nah, you just need to stop with the wide receiver ****, when it's the first time in like a decade where it's not a problem.

 

[Ross12]

Shaheed is fast but is not really proven. He'd be good on kick returns. He's a free agent after this year. I might flip a 5th for him.

Olave definitely does interest me but there's some injury risk. That said, if he stays healthy (big "if") he is probably the top guy on their depth chart pretty quickly. He has this year (cheap) and his 5th year option next year ($15M guaranteed) left on his deal, which is likely why NO wants to move him due to the need to build up the roster and also get above water on the cap next year, which factors into negotiations. I'd probably offer a 4th.

 

[A Defiant Goose]

You need to lighten up Tommy piss me off!!

Nah, you just need to stop with the wide receiver ****, when it's the first time in like a decade where it's not a problem.

The back and forth between you two always gets me going in the morning lol it's like watching a happy hyper puppy getting excited over every little toy and an old grumpy cat whos content with a raggedy blanket

 

[PatsFan2]

Shaheed is fast but is not really proven. He'd be good on kick returns. He's a free agent after this year. I might flip a 5th for him.

Olave definitely does interest me but there's some injury risk. That said, if he stays healthy (big "if") he is probably the top guy on their depth chart pretty quickly. He has this year (cheap) and his 5th year option next year ($15M guaranteed) left on his deal, which is likely why NO wants to move him due to the need to build up the roster and also get above water on the cap next year, which factors into negotiations. I'd probably offer a 4th.

The Saints are not just going to give away a former 11th overall selection. Who had Two 1000yds seasons already: I think a Third plus a player K Williams or Pop.

 

[TommyD4207]

Shaheed is fast but is not really proven. He'd be good on kick returns. He's a free agent after this year. I might flip a 5th for him.

Olave definitely does interest me but there's some injury risk. That said, if he stays healthy (big "if") he is probably the top guy on their depth chart pretty quickly. He has this year (cheap) and his 5th year option next year ($15M guaranteed) left on his deal, which is likely why NO wants to move him due to the need to build up the roster and also get above water on the cap next year, which factors into negotiations. I'd probably offer a 4th.

That is why they want to move him. The 15 million is cheap, but for New Orleans, that's the difference between being over and under the cap next year. Still.

And after MVP-Candidate Spencer Rattler's performance yesterday, they're still a couple years away, with a looot of legacy contracts on that team.

 

[PatsFan2]

That is why they want to move him. The 15 million is cheap, but for New Orleans, that's the difference between being over and under the cap next year. Still.

And after MVP-Candidate Spencer Rattler's performance yesterday, they're still a couple years away, with a looot of legacy contracts on that team.

Who are they paying mega $$$$$??

 

[TommyD4207]

Who are they paying mega $$$$$??

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-orleans-saints/cap

The Taysom Hill and Cam Jordan contracts are ****ing bonkers. Demario Davis is equally bonkers.

 

[TommyD4207]

They're also still paying Marshon Lattimore and Derek Carr. And Michael Thomas.

 

[PatsFan2]

They're also still paying Marshon Lattimore and Derek Carr. And Michael Thomas.

Who was writing those contracts the accountant from ENRON??

 

[Hugepatsfan]

Assuming that what we saw from Douglas in New Orleans is what we are getting the rest of the way, the Pats have three starting WRs, Boutte, Diggs, and Pop. I don't think a 3rd WR is a big need. And Williams is getting open. Sometimes wide open. He just isn't on the same page Maye yet. If he gets this offense, he could be very good.

I think a third TE is far more important than you think. The Pats do not have a blocking TE. Neither Henry nor Hooper are good at it. It is hurting the Patriots' running game. I would rather the Pats pick up a blocking TE who can catch than a #3 WR. The Pats need to get the running game going and a blocking TE will be far more effective for that goal than a #3 WR.

BTW, the Patriots run a lot of 12 man personnel which has two TEs and only two WRs. According to AI, the Pats are in 12 man personnel 38% of the time and 11 man personnel (3 WRs) 48% of the time. So less than half the snaps on offense have three WRs. The #3 WR on the Patriots really isn't a starter.

I would only trade for a WR if they can get a legitimate #1 WR. Brown or Olave or someone else who comes up who we weren't expecting. The WR position right now is actually fairly good for the Patriots right now. Maye is second in the league in completion percentage. A lot of the advanced stats show that the Pats WR are above average in separation rate. Maye leads the league and throws over 20 yards. I mean there isn't much you can do to improve this unless you get someone elite or near elite.

Good insight on the playing time stuff. I was rough calculating it as Hollins plays about 50%, Douglas plays about 25% and they split #3 so one of them should be out there about 75% of the time. But Hollins is playing as the 3rd TE, Diggs/Boutte don't play 100% of the snaps, maybe they run 4 WR. That all adds up to 3rd WR play time not being as simple as just adding up those two players' snap percentage.

Still though, ~50% is the most used formation. I'd say it's a starter. I don't think Douglas or Hollins are bad, I think both are best served as #4 WRs. Douglas clearly has some great physical gifts but not consistent or reliable. That screams #4, package player to me. Same with Hollins, who does good things for you as a #4. I think you're stretching it making either of them a #3 WR that is part of your "base" offense.

It's ok. It's not the end of the world. It's not some crippling weakness that can't be overcome. I do think that Diggs is a mid to weaker #1 at this stage of his career and Boutte, is probably a borderline #2/#3, though he's moved up way more as a feasible #2 for me recently. And then you get to #3 where, IMO, it's two #4s combining for the role.

I'm all for any trade that improves the position anywhere up the chain. A #1 like you said pushes everyone down. Now Diggs is a top tier #2, Boutte is a great #3. Douglas/Hollins both get to to share the #4 role with their diversified skill set. If you get a #2 then Diggs is still your mid to weaker #1, but your depth char seems well-fitting from #2 on down. And if you get a #3, then you solidify from there. All improvement is good improvement IMO.

Also, "blocking TE who can catch" would be awesome, I agree, but that sounds like more than a #3 TE. Not sure who is giving up a player like that at a cost in line with what is appropriate for that role.

NFL trade deadline is usually uneventful without many/any impact players moved. I feel like a #3 WR and DE capable of playing heavy rotational snaps are probably the most logical "starter" positions where they could find someone. Both of those roles could be "starters" on the depth chart but really like 40-50% playing time. I doubt you're getting anyone more than that at the NFL trade deadline and those are two spots we could stand to improve a team that's 5-2 so I say pursue it.

 

[TommyD4207]

Who was writing those contracts the accountant from ENRON??

This is why if they can move Olave they absolutely will, and why a relatively cheap 5th year option for most teams would be the difference between being in cap hell another year or not.

And then they'd have to figure out how to pay Olave after next year, or lose him for nothing.

 

[Wozzy]

Nah, you just need to stop with the wide receiver ****, when it's the first time in like a decade where it's not a problem.

All we needed was blocking to give Drake time, and magically we went from “32nd worst weapons in the NFL” to a top ten passing attack.

Funny huh, horse/cart….

 

[TommyD4207]

All we needed was blocking to give Drake time, and magically we went from 32nd worst weapons to a top ten passing attack.

Funny huh, horse/cart….

Well it's not all they needed.
They also needed professional coaches.
And they absolutely needed Stephon Diggs.

To sort of echo your theme, it's a team effort.