Ellis, Austin, Stevenson, Douglas

[dliverey44]

I know and Diggs will improve now that Douglas is benched. Imagine Diggs and Chism against a zone defense. Orgasms.

Dare I say Jizm

 

[captain stone]

No doubt. If Diggs wasnt injured and 32 I don't know that he falls in our laps. I am watching now the Bengals and the friction that appears to be brewing with Chase and Coach Taylor. I would imagine their season is not going to get better and as the losses pile up the blame game starts. He is the top paid receiver in the league with that 4 year/161M deal he got earlier this year. I dont see the Bengals letting him go as long as Burrow is on the team. Maybe after he banks all that money we can pry him away, he would only be 29.

Their HC is getting fired at the end of the season because he sucks and he has a GM who gave Megabucks contracts to TWO WRs.

If the Bungles don't hire a hard-ass HC for next year & beyond who wants to Run the Damn Ball to set-up the pass, then Burrow's career will be ruined too, even if the QB himself refuses to admit it.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Their HC is getting fired at the end of the season because he sucks and he has a GM who gave Megabucks contracts to TWO WRs.

I didn't know if you were talking about the Dolphins or Bengals.

 

[captain stone]

I didn't know if you were talking about the Dolphins or Bengals.

If Miami had not won last week and had embarrassed themselves doing so, I truly believe that Mister Capri Pants would've been fired.

 

[Ring 6]

Ring,

I have seen you mention Maye going through his progressions, but I am not certain that he and McD are running a pure progression read offense. I lean toward them running a 1/2 field offense based on pre snap looks (kind of a choose a side). So if that is the case he could be making a concerted effort to get the ball to a particular player because he has the confidence that Diggs for instance will be in the right spot.

This post is not trying to call you or anyone out, but rather start a conversation about actual game play rather than a pissing contest about how people are wrong about something or this guy sucks.

So you make something up?

NFL passing offenses design plays that combine routes to get receivers open. The routes are planned to stress a defense. The qb has a read and throws where the read tells him to.
No offense splits the field in 2 and lets the Qb choose one side to look at. That would be a disaster and there is nothing on tape to suggest it.

Why not just post you’d like me to be wrong but don’t know why I would be instead of making something up.

 

[TommyD4207]

So you make something up?

NFL passing offenses design plays that combine routes to get receivers open. The routes are planned to stress a defense. The qb has a read and throws where the read tells him to.
No offense splits the field in 2 and lets the Qb choose one side to look at. That would be a disaster and there is nothing on tape to suggest it.

This is objectively untrue.

 

[Ring 6]

This is objectively untrue.

No it isn’t. No team runs a passing offense that calls for all pass plays having 2 separate route systems independent of each other and the qb gets to pick which half of the field he ignores on each play. That is ludicrous.

 

[Real fan 02]

Diggs isn't somebody who's equipped to handle 75+% at this time. I would rest him on 1st downs if the game is competitive, and use him closer to 67% or lower if I can afford it.

He is getting healthier and we still have to remember it's utterly remarkable that he's even on the field right now.

 

[dliverey44]

So you make something up?

NFL passing offenses design plays that combine routes to get receivers open. The routes are planned to stress a defense. The qb has a read and throws where the read tells him to.
No offense splits the field in 2 and lets the Qb choose one side to look at. That would be a disaster and there is nothing on tape to suggest it.

Why not just post you’d like me to be wrong but don’t know why I would be instead of making something up.

Wow you're an ass. Do you watch football? Its referred to as a Field read instead of pure progression and it is in fact based on coverage.
Yes there are offenses that call those routes to stress defenses and based on presnap looks the QB can determine that which side of the field has the potential for a higher success rate. The play is not Diggs runs a crosser and is your #1 read, Booty runs a post and is #2 etc, Henry runs a seam and is #3.

When I said 1/2 field, I should have been more specific that one side of the field will have a higher probability of success. That does not mean he can't go to the other side. The progression priority will change based on pre snap looks, Field read offense. WCO is more of a pure progression read offense.

Make something up, no I understand football

What I was getting at was that I think that is what Josh has done with Maye. He probably did it with Brady, not sure.

I found this clip of Warner breaking down Maye and he mentions at the 9:16 mark that they are running a pure progression read "I know they don't run a lot of them", so it seems that Warner agrees that they do not use a lot of pure progression. The alternative is a field read you buffoon.

 

[Ring 6]

Wow you're an ass. Do you watch football? Its referred to as a Field read instead of pure progression and it is in fact based on coverage.
Yes there are offenses that call those routes to stress defenses and based on presnap looks the QB can determine that which side of the field has the potential for a higher success rate. The play is not Diggs runs a crosser and is your #1 read, Booty runs a post and is #2 etc, Henry runs a seam and is #3.

When I said 1/2 field, I should have been more specific that one side of the field will have a higher probability of success. That does not mean he can't go to the other side. The progression priority will change based on pre snap looks, Field read offense. WCO is more of a pure progression read offense.

Make something up, no I understand football

You made it up and now you are back tracking.
Your original post described cutting the forcing hand and Maye chooses which side he wants to throw to, as reasoning that targets aren’t based upon getting open but influenced by who Maye likes.
You’ve now changed your answer.

This is what you said first.

I lean toward them running a 1/2 field offense based on pre snap looks (kind of a choose a side). So if that is the case he could be making a concerted effort to get the ball to a particular player because he has the confidence that Diggs for instance will be in the right spot.

Now you backtrack and call me an ass for noting it was wrong. Nice.

QBs do not choose which side of the field they think will have higher success. They are assigned progressions. The progression depend upon the coverage. They reads and progressions are PREDETERMINED not chosen.

And yes the progressions 100% are; this is your #1 read this is your number 2 etc etc. The only difference is they aren’t necessarily the same vs different coverages.

 

[dliverey44]

You made it up and now you are back tracking.
Your original post described cutting the forcing hand and Maye chooses which side he wants to throw to, as reasoning that targets aren’t based upon getting open but influenced by who Maye likes.
You’ve now changed your answer.

This is what you said first.


Now you backtrack and call me an ass for noting it was wrong. Nice.

QBs do not choose which side of the field they think will have higher success. They are assigned progressions. The progression depend upon the coverage. They reads and progressions are PREDETERMINED not chosen.

And yes the progressions 100% are; this is your #1 read this is your number 2 etc etc. The only difference is they aren’t necessarily the same vs different coverages.

I called you an ass because I was trying to start an actual football conversation about Xs and Os, but you immediately took it as an opportunity to try and show people you are smarter. And when you do not understand something or you refuse to accept that something you do not agree with you jump to you made it up.

My answer did not change. I didn't make it up and there was no need for back tracking. I do think Josh calls a lot of 1/2 field read or Pick a Side concepts, this does not mean that it is the complete offense (you took it literal). Maye picks the preferred side based on pre snap coverage. Again this does not mean he can only throw to one side.

I have always called it field read but others call it pick a side, it's a thing. If it is in fact "pick a side" then yes he can make a concerted effort to get the ball to a singular player because of trust/chemistry(knowing where the player will be and how they will adjust routes)

You also stated that offenses to not play 1/2 field and that is not true at all.

Edit: After doing more research, it seems that 1/2 field or pick a side is used more in the quick passing game.

 

[Ring 6]

I called you an ass because I was trying to start an actual football conversation about Xs and Os, but you immediately took it as an opportunity to try and show people you are smarter.

My answer did not change. I didn't make it up and there was no need for back tracking. I do think Josh calls a lot of 1/2 field read or Pick a Side concepts, this does not mean that it is the complete offense (you took it literal). Maye picks the preferred side based on pre snap coverage. Again this does not mean he can only throw to that side.

I have always called it field read but others call it pick a side, it's a thing. If it is in fact "pick a side" then yes he can make a concerted effort to get the ball to a singular player because of trust/chemistry(knowing where the player will be and how they will adjust routes)

You also stated that offenses to not play 1/2 field and that is not true at all.

You must have a real inferiority complex when yiu are told you are wrong and think it’s the other person trying to show people you are smarter. wtf is that? Show who? Anonymous people on a message board that I’ll never meet? Is that really your posting intent, playing to a crowd?

Yes your answer changed. You attributed WRs not getting targets to maybe we have an offense that splits the field in half and lets Maye pick the side so he picks Diggs side.
Then you stated to correctly describe reads, but now you are back in fantasy land.
It is just absolutely not correct that we have a play call where Maye gets to choose which progressions he wants. Coverage will dictate the progressions but not “pick a side, any side.”
And that was my issue with your original post because you used it to argue Maye is choosing who gets the ball because we run an offense that just lets him pick where he wants to look. That is abjectly false.

There is absolutely no such thing as a “pick a side offense”.



Field read vs strict profession works like this.
Play call has WR running deep curl, TE running out rb running flat.
Strict progression is WR, TE, RB
Field read is look at coverage, if the corner sits hit the WR, if he runs with the WR check the underneath and hit the TE or check down.
It doesn’t say choose whether you want to run the play design or just ignore it and throw to the backside receiver.
Btw the play call may have the backside WR running a go and if you read single high safety he’s the first look, but that is in the design and structure of the play, not at the whim of the qb.

I CORRECTLY stated that offense do not split the field in half and tell the QB to pick a side as an offensive system. That would go against every structural concept of an NFL passing game, and would fail miserably.

 

[Ring 6]

Wow you're an ass. Do you watch football? Its referred to as a Field read instead of pure progression and it is in fact based on coverage.
Yes there are offenses that call those routes to stress defenses and based on presnap looks the QB can determine that which side of the field has the potential for a higher success rate. The play is not Diggs runs a crosser and is your #1 read, Booty runs a post and is #2 etc, Henry runs a seam and is #3.

When I said 1/2 field, I should have been more specific that one side of the field will have a higher probability of success. That does not mean he can't go to the other side. The progression priority will change based on pre snap looks, Field read offense. WCO is more of a pure progression read offense.

Make something up, no I understand football

What I was getting at was that I think that is what Josh has done with Maye. He probably did it with Brady, not sure.

I found this clip of Warner breaking down Maye and he mentions at the 9:16 mark that they are running a pure progression read "I know they don't run a lot of them", so it seems that Warner agrees that they do not use a lot of pure progression. The alternative is a field read you buffoon.

You recognize that name calling is just an indication you can’t win the argument.
You do not understand what a field read is.
Perhaps you should google before you post?

 

[captain stone]

He is getting healthier and we still have to remember it's utterly remarkable that he's even on the field right now.

Which is why I'm ok with limiting his snaps on early downs and during the 1st-2nd quarter of games.

 

[dliverey44]

I CORRECTLY stated that offense do not split the field in half and tell the QB to pick a side as an offensive system. That would go against every structural concept of an NFL passing game, and would fail miserably.

Now imagine that the same route concepts are called for both sides of the field (just an example that the Pats do, but does not depend solely on the same route concepts), The QB will determine which side of the field presents a higher probability of success based on pre snap looks (Field read/pick a side). This is one of the reasons that they ID the middle backer (not the only reason).

Field read is look at coverage, if the corner sits hit the WR

I have been referring to and have stated multiple times that I am talking about PRE SNAP looks. You are correct that once the play is in motion the QB must read the defenders.

Edit: I have heard several QBs refer to pick a side plays, so I'm going to take their word over yours. I also in one of my responses that 1/2 field is not the complete offense.

1/2 field could be called as much or as little as Josh wants. That % varies week to week. I stand by it being one of the possibilities that Diggs got more balls last week. Maybe Maye trusts him more than anyone else. I just threw it out as a possibility, but rather than a discussion you chose to tell me how wrong as was and made it up.

 

[Ring 6]

Now imagine that the same route concepts are called for both sides of the field (just an example that the Pats do, but does not depend solely on the same route concepts), The QB will determine which side of the field presents a higher probability of success based on pre snap looks (Field read/pick a side). This is one of the reasons that they ID the middle backer (not the only reason).

I have been referring to and have stated multiple times that I am talking about PRE SNAP looks. You are correct that once the play is in motion the QB must read the defenders.

Edit: I have heard several QBs refer to pick a side plays, so I'm going to take their word over yours. I also in one of my responses that 1/2 field is not the complete offense.

1/2 field could be called as much or as little as Josh wants. That % varies week to week. I stand by it being one of the possibilities that Diggs got more balls last week. Maybe Maye trusts him more than anyone else. I just threw it out as a possibility, but rather than a discussion you chose to tell me how wrong as was and made it up.

The ID the mike to establish the middle of the defense.

I’m sorry but plays aren’t designed as 2 half plays for the qb to choose from.

But let’s get back to the starting point, we are far too deep in the weeds to unravel the meandering or your argument.
Your original point was that Douglas, Boutte, and Hollins playing about 1.5 of them per snap aren’t getting few targets because they aren’t getting open, but because Maye is freezing them out because our pass offense says he can pick one side of the fort and has been freezing out the others and locking in on Diggs.
Diggs got the ball because Diggs was open. Do you want to show me the plays where he wasn’t open and Maye locked in on him and threw but anyway and didn’t look at anyone else?
The issue here is blaming Maye out of thin air. Rather than watch film, look at what’s happening, how the play is designed, what the reads are, you jump right to “maybe the guy who completed 14/16 is screwing over his receivers”.
It’s ok for you to not like Maye. But if you are going to try to blame him for other players failings, bring some fact.

 

[dliverey44]

The ID the mike to establish the middle of the defense.

I’m sorry but plays aren’t designed as 2 half plays for the qb to choose from.

But let’s get back to the starting point, we are far too deep in the weeds to unravel the meandering or your argument.
Your original point was that Douglas, Boutte, and Hollins playing about 1.5 of them per snap aren’t getting few targets because they aren’t getting open, but because Maye is freezing them out because our pass offense says he can pick one side of the fort and has been freezing out the others and locking in on Diggs.
Diggs got the ball because Diggs was open. Do you want to show me the plays where he wasn’t open and Maye locked in on him and threw but anyway and didn’t look at anyone else?
The issue here is blaming Maye out of thin air. Rather than watch film, look at what’s happening, how the play is designed, what the reads are, you jump right to “maybe the guy who completed 14/16 is screwing over his receivers”.
It’s ok for you to not like Maye. But if you are going to try to blame him for other players failings, bring some fact.

OK, I threw it out as an alternate possibility and now I am claiming that Maye is freezing out WRs. I love Drake Maye and am not blaming him for anything, I don't care that Diggs got a lot of balls last week or that Booty got a lot in week 1. As I said I threw it out there as a possibility, trying to start a conversation. You immediately jumped to you made that up. LMAO

Is this why I don't see you at the gym, because you get your excercise jumping to assumptions

Have a good night sir

 

[dliverey44]

This is just an FYI. Joel Klatt is talking about the quick passing game and he refers to Field read/pick a side based on presnap looks. Its the thing that I made up.

 

[TommyD4207]

No it isn’t. No team runs a passing offense that calls for all pass plays having 2 separate route systems independent of each other and the qb gets to pick which half of the field he ignores on each play. That is ludicrous.

It's called a clear-out route.

I don't think they're doing *exclusively* half-field reads for Maye, but they are doing some, and it's anything but uncommon for young QBs.

The problem comes in when the QB is *incapable* of throwing to the other side of the field (you've seen this for decades with any number of 'athletic' QBs, who only throw to one side of the field their whole career). Maye is more than capable, and they're not doing exclusively half-field reads. But they're certainly doing some of it, especially on first down.

 

[TommyD4207]

OK, I threw it out as an alternate possibility and now I am claiming that Maye is freezing out WRs. I love Drake Maye and am not blaming him for anything, I don't care that Diggs got a lot of balls last week or that Booty got a lot in week 1. As I said I threw it out there as a possibility, trying to start a conversation. You immediately jumped to you made that up. LMAO

Is this why I don't see you at the gym, because you get your excercise jumping to assumptions

Have a good night sir