PostGame Thread OFFICIAL POST GAME THREAD: Patriots Lose to Steelers 21-14

[Real fan 02]

We were definitely hoodwinked by Pop Douglas; fools gold. Maybe AVP's highschool Offense wasn't so highschool afterall: because he was still running the wrong routes in it.

YMCA coaching staff was playing middle school play calling for him.. pop really suprise me.. I had high hopes for him.

 

[patfanken]

It's obvious that Pop Douglas is not a good Route runner: and he's struggling with McDaniels Offense. We have seen this before with Young Patriots WR's. There's no reason not to use Kyle Williams at this Time: he's not playing behind Hofer's. Kyle Williams have two catches on the season: we need to get him involved more. That said when Chism gets his shot and plays well: we'll see that Pop was his own enemy.

I finally think you found a cogent factor in this discussion that bears merit. I think it is lazy thinking to simply say, "he's a bad route runner". That's not the problem. What IS the problem is the much simpler reason. He is having trouble with Josh's offense. He wouldn't be the first guy.

Pop was the most consistent WR we've had the past 2 seasons. Granted not a very high bar, but he showed he was at least competent and steady. Now suddenly he can't play?

What if our problem with him is similar to what we've done in the past. Our complete lack of patience and satisfaction with ANYTHING but immediate gratification. So we are going to throw away ANOTHER player when the solution might be as simple as waiting another 4 or 5 games while he (and everyone else for that matter, get familiar with the brand new and complex offense.

We forget one of the big reasons for the literally decades long period of success we had came from the CONTINUITY of semantics and offensive and defensive systems over those 20 years.
.
Perhaps Williams' lack of playing time comes from that same lack of familiarity. Just a thought. Sometimes all the angst is just a team coming together over time. It's a PROCESS that we are simply unwilling or unable to wait for.... even a couple of games.

 

[Real fan 02]

We were definitely hoodwinked by Pop Douglas; fools gold. Maybe AVP's highschool Offense wasn't so highschool afterall: because he was still running the wrong routes in it.

YMCA coaching staff was playing middle school play calling for him.. pop really suprise me.. I had high hopes

I finally think you found a cogent factor in this discussion that bears merit. I think it is lazy thinking to simply say, "he's a bad route runner". That's not the problem. What IS the problem is the much simpler reason. He is having trouble with Josh's offense. He wouldn't be the first guy.

Pop was the most consistent WR we've had the past 2 seasons. Granted not a very high bar, but he showed he was at least competent and steady. Now suddenly he can't play?

What if our problem with him is similar to what we've done in the past. Our complete lack of patience and satisfaction with ANYTHING but immediate gratification. So we are going to throw away ANOTHER player when the solution might be as simple as waiting another 4 or 5 games while he (and everyone else for that matter, get familiar with the brand new and complex offense.

We forget one of the big reasons for the literally decades long period of success we had came from the CONTINUITY of semantics and offensive and defensive systems over those 20 years.
.
Perhaps Williams' lack of playing time comes from that same lack of familiarity. Just a thought. Sometimes all the angst is just a team coming together over time. It's a PROCESS that we are simply unwilling or unable to wait for.... even a couple of games.

I think we all could agree as posters that all camp pop was the best wr and seemingly running Josh offense very well. Suddenly the games start counting for real and he's been a non factor literally. Pop is the straw that stirs the drink in a offense like McDaniels. He's not performing and it's glaring.

 

[PatsFan2]

I finally think you found a cogent factor in this discussion that bears merit. I think it is lazy thinking to simply say, "he's a bad route runner". That's not the problem. What IF the problem is the much simpler reason. He is having trouble with Josh's offense. He wouldn't be the first guy.

Pop was the most consistent WR we've had the past 2 seasons. Granted not a very high bar, but he showed he was at least competent and steady. Now suddenly he can't play?

What if our problem with him is similar to what we've done in the past. Our complete lack of patience and satisfaction with ANYTHING but immediate gratification. So we are going to throw away ANOTHER player when the solution might be as simple as waiting another 4 or 5 games while he (and everyone else for that matter, get familiar with the brand new and complex offense.

We forget one of the big reasons for the literally decades long period of success we had came from the CONTINUITY of semantics and offensive and defensive systems over those 20 years.
.
Perhaps Williams' lack of playing time comes from that same lack of familiarity. Just a thought. Sometimes all the angst is just a team coming together over time. It's a PROCESS that we are simply unwilling or unable to wait for.... even a couple of games.

IF that's the case Kyle Williams is already dead in the water. One of the very reasons I didn't want JD as our OC.

 

[PatsFan2]

YMCA coaching staff was playing middle school play calling for him.. pop really suprise me.. I had high hopes

I think we all could agree as posters that all camp pop was the best wr and seemingly running Josh offense very well. Suddenly the games start counting for real and he's been a non factor literally. Pop is the straw that stirs the drink in a offense like McDaniels. He's not performing and it's glaring.

Pop Practices like Tarzan and plays like Jane.

 

[patfanken]

Zo mentioned that on the Fifth Quarter: we want to run 100 plays to get down the field. Fall behind game over our Offense is not dynamic. It's very pedestrian thus our WR numbers. Rham have more yards than most of our WR's': what does that tell you?? Some of them Stink.

I've noticed the lack of any stretching of the field routes too. We knew going in that Williams and Henderson were the 2 guys who were supposed to give us some speed going in. Everyone else were going to be move the chain guys.

Now we get back to how soon will Josh be comfortable throwing them the ball in game situations. Henderson has been the disappointment (to some degree) for me. He doesn't seem to have much Juke in is motor and pass protection has gone from an attribute to being an issue. It's the big deal rookie RB's have to overcome for him too.

Right now we seem to have an offense that despite being young and unfamiliar with each other, plus learning a new offense; has been capable of moving the ball on a consistent basis ( say every 2 of 3 drives getting at least a couple of first downs)

And if we are moving the ball fairly well when we are literally in the first grade of learning the offense, how is it going to look we are in HS getting ready for college

 

[Ring 6]

I finally think you found a cogent factor in this discussion that bears merit. I think it is lazy thinking to simply say, "he's a bad route runner". That's not the problem. What IS the problem is the much simpler reason. He is having trouble with Josh's offense. He wouldn't be the first guy.

Pop was the most consistent WR we've had the past 2 seasons. Granted not a very high bar, but he showed he was at least competent and steady. Now suddenly he can't play?

What if our problem with him is similar to what we've done in the past. Our complete lack of patience and satisfaction with ANYTHING but immediate gratification. So we are going to throw away ANOTHER player when the solution might be as simple as waiting another 4 or 5 games while he (and everyone else for that matter, get familiar with the brand new and complex offense.

We forget one of the big reasons for the literally decades long period of success we had came from the CONTINUITY of semantics and offensive and defensive systems over those 20 years.
.
Perhaps Williams' lack of playing time comes from that same lack of familiarity. Just a thought. Sometimes all the angst is just a team coming together over time. It's a PROCESS that we are simply unwilling or unable to wait for.... even a couple of games.

I disagree. Douglas has always had an issue runny the right route and running it correctly. It’s right there in the film, we dint have to make up a reason, he’s done the same thing in everyone’s offense.
The difference is now we have an offense that has other parts to it and a QB who knows where to throw the football, and has the ability to make every throw.

We are completing 78% of our passes to everyone not named Douglas. 74.4% is the best ever for a season, to give context. And we are complete 38% of our passes to Douglas. Douglas is the problem.

Williams evidently isn’t playing because someone thinks the 13 yard we get out of Hollins as a WR2 is anything but criminal.

 

[Ring 6]

I've noticed the lack of any stretching of the field routes too. We knew going in that Williams and Henderson were the 2 guys who were supposed to give us some speed going in. Everyone else were going to be move the chain guys.

Now we get back to how soon will Josh be comfortable throwing them the ball in game situations. Henderson has been the disappointment (to some degree) for me. He doesn't seem to have much Juke in is motor and pass protection has gone from an attribute to being an issue. It's the big deal rookie RB's have to overcome for him too.

Right now we seem to have an offense that despite being young and unfamiliar with each other, plus learning a new offense; has been capable of moving the ball on a consistent basis ( say every 2 of 3 drives getting at least a couple of first downs)

And if we are moving the ball fairly well when we are literally in the first grade of learning the offense, how is it going to look we are in HS getting ready for college

We are running plenty of deep routes. Defenses are playing coverages that take them away so we are throwing to what the defense gives and thereby completing the second highest percentage of passes in the NFL for the 5th most yards.
When coverage dictates throwing deep we will.

 

[jdlboot14]

Oh god not the screen shot shoulda thrown to that guy thing.

Ha! yes indeed. But, not to do what everyone else does and pile on Maye or JMD for bad offense.
My point is - the designs are there, and guys are winning in routes.
Hopefully Maye will gain confidence in the OL, the play designs, and his WRs and start hitting on these X-plays
I have hope!

 

[Ring 6]

Ha! yes indeed. But, not to do what everyone else does and pile on Maye or JMD for bad offense.
My point is - the designs are there, and guys are winning in routes.
Hopefully Maye will gain confidence in the OL, the play designs, and his WRs and start hitting on these X-plays
I have hope!

That’s just not how it works. Maye has progressions. He goes through his progressions and throws to the first one who is open.

He isn’t passing up receivers. Doing a screen shot and putting in arrows saying the defender wouldn’t react to the route doesn’t demonstrate that.

 

[Ring 6]

Ha! yes indeed. But, not to do what everyone else does and pile on Maye or JMD for bad offense.
My point is - the designs are there, and guys are winning in routes.
Hopefully Maye will gain confidence in the OL, the play designs, and his WRs and start hitting on these X-plays
I have hope!

Why in the world would anyone be piling on Maye or McD?
Maye is second in the NFL in completion percentage and 5th in yards with no help from yac. He is top 10 in ypa, passer rating and TDs and has 2 ints in 106 attempts.
He also leads the team in rushing yards and TDs.

Maye has been playing at a top 10 NFL qb level and has been by far the best player in this team.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I think we just need a full ack who can block really well and create the lanes who can play instead of Hollins .

Looking at snaps I feel diggs, pop and Williams are not at all contributing and that's a problem leading to more dependency on rham . Henderson is still developing. At this point I feel Chism would open up everything I. The slot and possibly pace the way for Williams and Henderson too .

Hollins has been a decent blocker but if we have a better stud in blocking and creating lanes, we should probably play that player than Hollins. Keep Hollins more for red zone .

Hunter has been lousy at blocking. Hooper is not much better. I don't think we have anyone else to block and catch a couple of passes a game.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

That’s not how we are using Hollins. We are using him as a starting WR. Hes played 67 of the 106 pass plays. And he has played the second most snaps of all WRs. He had 0.6 yards per route run. He cannot get open.

Our #2 WR produces less than 13 yards a game.


Thats the biggest issue, people are defending Hollins saying he’s there to block but no he is actually there to be one of our top receivers and he stinks.

You don't like Hollins? I had no idea.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

YMCA coaching staff was playing middle school play calling for him.. pop really suprise me.. I had high hopes for him.

There were posters warning you

 

[Ring 6]

You don't like Hollins? I had no idea.

It’s not a matter of like. It’s a matter of he is a liability.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I disagree. Douglas has always had an issue runny the right route and running it correctly. It’s right there in the film, we dint have to make up a reason, he’s done the same thing in everyone’s offense.
The difference is now we have an offense that has other parts to it and a QB who knows where to throw the football, and has the ability to make every throw.

We are completing 78% of our passes to everyone not named Douglas. 74.4% is the best ever for a season, to give context. And we are complete 38% of our passes to Douglas. Douglas is the problem.

Williams evidently isn’t playing because someone thinks the 13 yard we get out of Hollins as a WR2 is anything but criminal.

This is correct. Patfanken is off. We are not running the full Josh/TB12 offense, the offense Josh is presently running is not that complicated. Diggs, Hunter, Hooper, Stevenson, Gibson, and Hollins all get it. Douglas is lost. Douglas is the problem.

Vrabel benched Elliss, things improved. Vrabel benched Austin, things improved. One more to go. If Vrabel benches Douglas, things will improve.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

It’s not a matter of like. It’s a matter of he is a liability.

I think you have mentioned your dislike over 20 times. You are very emotional about it.

 

[javajunky]

Skippy Jr's to do list for week 4:
1) Get OL to practice cut down blocks to help with tipped balls.
2) Start rotating Moss/Bryant for the sake of both Moss and Maye.
3) Switch Henderson and Stevenson in their 1st down and 3rd down roles.
4) Sit Douglas until the Bye.
5) Dig up some Wes Welker plays to see what Chism can do with them.

 

[Ring 6]

I think you have mentioned your dislike over 20 times. You are very emotional about it.

Not emotional at all. He sucks that’s not emotion that’s analysis.

 

[Real fan 02]

There were posters warning you

You don't say...