What’s Left To Do?

[Ring 6]

I’m kinda surprised no one has mentioned this before, but if they have, you have my apology. What a longer wingspan would allow an OL to do is….wait for it….HOLD. When that DE starts blowing past you to the outside, it could give you the reach to get your hand on him (and hold) until you properly get in front of him. Which none of this should be happening in the first place. Got my flame ******ant suit on so….flame away!

In the situation where an inch matters. I’ve yet to see the block that was made possible by reaching an inch further horizontally

 

[Ring 6]

Marcus Jones Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft, College | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats for Marcus Jones. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, college, draft, and more on Pro-football-reference.com.

www.pro-football-reference.com

His numbers weren't great for last season, but they probably were more infuriating than normal given how everyone not named Gonzo had a bad year.

63% catch rate on 65 targets is kinda rough.

I disagree. 63% is below average and slot receivers catch a higher percentage than average. 3 catches allowed per game for less than 40 yards is not bad by any measure.

 

[Ring 6]

Where do you get that Marcus Jones was picked on?

The Team currently has 9 corners on the roster. 10 if you count Isaiah Bolden.

They have Gonzalez, Davis, Austin, Marcus Jones, Marcellus Dial, DJ James, Miles Battle, Brandon Crossley and Kobee Minor. Bolden would make 10.

Of those, Gonzalez, Davis, and Marcus Jones are locks. Alex Austin and Marcellus Dial have their work cut out for them, but Dial was on 84% of the ST snaps last year, so that likely gives him an inside track. Same with Austin.

I've mentioned what makes Battle and James intriguing in another thread.. Both are extremely athletic.


CB was one of the areas that there were a lot of FAs this past off-season. I think it's telling that he didn't bring in anyone else but Davis. I think that it speaks to the confidence he has in that area of the team.

Vrabels defenses typically play > 3.5 corners per snap.
I’m good with Gonzalez, David and Jones
I’m ok with Austin at cb4
But given expected injuries cb5 and cb6 are going to see legit playing time and I have zero confidence in any of the players competing for those spots

 

[Wozzy]

Marcus Jones did not play in 2023
stop already

he did not play well last year
stop the excuse making to fit your wrong narrative
own it that you are wrong. period.

If you think the defense dipped from 5th in points allowed to 27th because Marcus Jones wasn't playing you are a special kind of lost.

He played well enough on a terribly coached and schemed team. Tell me who played well on a 4 win team. They played mostly zone, they couldn't stop the run or rush the passer. Football is a team sport.

Put two great boundary CB's like Gonzo and Davis, and you'll want a hyper athletic mobile CB in the middle. Fix the defensive front and you have a playoff caliber defense.

 

[Wozzy]

As on outside CB he was wozzy.. when he's in the slot he's phenomenal...

I'm not talking about a mismatch. That's a scheme or personnel mistake. There's a tool for every job.

 

[Wozzy]

I would be shocked if Jacobs makes the team. Particularly over Wallace. Jacobs made Brandon Gorin look like an All-Pro.

At some point you have to give up on a prospect, Jacobs is probably past that due date. If he was going to show up 15 pounds heavier and learn how to shuffle his feet, he would have done it already.

A vet OL might get let go after preseason who they might sign, or perhaps Wallace shows up stronger and takes a job... or Robinson. But they got a pretty good group in front of all these guys assuming health.

 

[Wozzy]

Solder was 305 when the Pats drafted him and was listed at 315 for his playing weight. He was over 6'8..

Solder weighed 319 at the 2011 NFL combine. The bigger problem was he only benched it 21 times.

He showed up noticeably bigger and stronger in 2012, and said he was in interviews that preseason.

Athleticism + strength + length = good offensive tackle.

You can have less of one, as long as you're more of the others. Football smarts and toughness probably factor in also.

 

[DaBruinz]

If I call him a jag and you argue he is a good signing you called him good. Same with Leverett and Jordan… all three got cut in-season for sucking.

If you agree with me, don’t argue vehemently that I’m wrong.

Calling a person a "good signing" is not saying that the player is good.

When the Pats made the signing, I was excited because it looked like Okorafor could be the Starting RT for the team. Partially addressing the issue. Had they kept one of Conor McDermott or Calvin Anderson instead of jettisoning them both for a waiver wire pick-up in Jacobs, things might have been different. They'd also have been different if they'd just sat Wallace at LT and told him to learn the position instead of bouncing him all over the place and, as a result putting him in a position to get injured.

What should have been a low-risk signing turned into a nightmare for the team. Mayo, AVP, and Wolf showed they have no clue when it comes to the O-line and building a team. Which is why they ended up having 32 different O-linemen as part of the roster. Even in BB's worst O-line year, he only had 16.

Leverett was supposed to be the new James Ferentz. A back-end player who only got on the field if there were multiple injuries ahead of him. And that's what happened. Jake Andrews being injured all year and then Dave Andrews going down forced Leverett into play. On an O-line that was in complete disarray. He was made a scapegoat by the moron brigade we had as a Coaching staff.

The same with Jordan. Jordan was, arguably, the most consistent O-lineman that the Pats had last year. He gave up 3 sacks, 3 hits and 17 hurries on 441 passing downs. That's journeyman numbers. Yet, he was jettisoned after week 13 for that worthless pick, Layden Robinson (4 sacks, 6 hits, 366 passing downs)

The O-line is the one area that consistency is needed in terms of the players you put on the field. It's been something that @patfanken has reiterated many times over the years.

The Pats did not have ANY consistency last year on the O-line because the Coaching Staff had no idea what they were doing.

 

[DaBruinz]

Jon Jones did suck (look at his numbers)
Gonzo was very good

I did not say Marcus Jones was a bad CB. He was a very good CB his rookie season. Last season, he was very bad. the numbers say so. my eye test says he was picked on, hunted, in order to stay away from Gonzo

Marcus Jones did not play in 2023
stop already
he did not play well last year
stop the excuse making to fit your wrong narrative
own it that you are wrong. period.

Seriously. Your "eye test" is as worthless as a $3 bill. You have ZERO objectivity and are spewing nonsense.

Marcus Jones. He had 385 coverage snaps and was targeted 63 times and gave up 38 receptions with 10 PD (60.3% allowed). So he was targeted 1 time every 6.4 snaps in coverage.

Christian Gonzalez had 563 coverage snaps. He was targeted 84 times and gave up 46 completions with 11 PD. (54.7% allowed). Gonzo was targeted once every 6.7snaps.

Claiming that Marcus Jones was picked on to stay away from Gonzo is complete and utter garbage and is PROOF that your have no clue WTF you are talking about.

YOU are the one who needs to own that you're WRONG. Because your claim that Marcus Jones was picked on is BS. Just like your claim that Jones didn't play in 2023. Jones DID play. It was only 2 games, but that IS playing. Try working on your reading comprehension since Wozzy didn't say that the 2023 personnel was exactly the same as 2024. He said it was nearly identical. Which it was if you had any honest bone in your body.

 

[DaBruinz]

Lol took me too long to find the stats so my post feels redundant.

Actually, I had the number wrong. It was 38 receptions allowed on 63 targets for 60.3%. Not 60 targets..

To give some perspective. There were 220 Corners who took at least 1 Coverage snap in the NFL in 2024. The HIGHEST number of Coverage snaps in 2024 for a CB was 784 by Brandon Stephens. To weed out the players who didn't see a lot of snaps, I used PFF's 20% filter, which eliminated anyone with less than 156 coverage snaps.

That gave me 127 CBs who took at least 156 coverage snaps in the NFL. When I looked at the Pass Catch % after the filter, Jones was the 36th best with his 60.3%. That put's him in the top 3rd of the league.

Being in the top 30% is hardly "rough". It's better than average considering that there were 91 players who's percentage was worse than his.


Also. The 60.3% is an improvement over his rookie year when he posted a 64.9%.

People like @rkarp1 would have you believe that their EYE TEST is something magical and telling. It is. But not in a positive fashion for them. When you look at the facts, they prove that that he has not idea what he's talking about.

 

[DaBruinz]

opposing QB's had a rating of 97% last year throwing at him. his rookie season the opposing QB rating was 75%

Neither the NFL Passer Rating or the QBR are done as a percentage, so you clearly have no clue what you are talking about.

 

[DaBruinz]

@rkarp1 may or may not be mistaken about many things (or might be a genius for all I know about it) but the one being less than truthful here is you. PFR is the go to source for hard stats.

Pro Football Reference is a great resource. But, there are rare instances where they get things wrong. How do I know this? Because I've seen them get it wrong in the past. Even messaged them about it. They corrected it.. But it was over 10 years ago.

A perfect example is Marcus Jones:

According to PFR, as a rookie, Jones gave up 24 receptions on 41 targets. a 58.5% completion percentage allowed.
According to PFF, as a rookie, Jones gave up 24 receptions on 37 targets. a 64.8% completion percentage allowed.

According to PFR, Jones gave up 361 yards on those 24 receptions.
According to PFF, Jones gave up 366 yards on those 24 receptions.

But look below at the discrepancies for 2024.

38 v 41 receptions
63 v 65 targets
466 yards allowed to 530 yards allowed

Look at how many games they differ on the Targets and Receptions. The Game sheets that PFR has doesn't include a breakdown of who was targeted on a particular passing play. Just who made the tackle.

Contrary to what's being pushed by rkarp1, Jones year was comparable to his rookie year outside the 2 additional TDs that he allowed.

 

[State]

It’s more about strength, both Wallace and Robinson skipped bench at the combine and again at their pro day. A strong player isn’t afraid to bench, he’s going to show off his strength.

Wow. Dudes didn’t put in the work and dedication in the weight room. Doubtful the switch flips now. It doesn’t work like that.

And they both were drafted a round too early. But the one thing they had going for them is what the top pick this year lacks: arm length.

Wolfie really f-cked up tge 2024 draft, didn’t he? Drake Maye needs a supporting cast. Both these lazy dudes ain’t it.

The good news is by late August they will likely have better choices on the waiver wire, picking fourth.

 

[State]

It’s more about strength, both Wallace and Robinson skipped bench at the combine and again at their pro day. A strong player isn’t afraid to bench, he’s going to show off his strength.

As someone who played BARF in college—barbaric American football—the time spent in the weight room especially for us linemen was more intense and time-consuming than practice, film study, or meetings. Combined.

I got so massive I would have run to the stage to put up my 25-27 reps.

I knew Caeden Wallace was a lazy dumb bastard who came to Penn State from NJ as a highly touted 4 star kid who couldn’t make it to meetings on time until his last year, but a Texas A&M guy like Robinson? Disappointed.

Clean house, Doug Marrone.

 

[State]

Goddamn, but his arms are prodigiously short. If Zero Wing makes it long term as LT, it’ll be unprecedented. And a tribute to his heart and athleticism, which can’t be disputed.

But I see a better version of Peter Skononski.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Goddamn, but his arms are prodigiously short. If Zero Wing makes it long term as LT, it’ll be unprecedented. And a tribute to his heart and athleticism, which can’t be disputed.

But I see a better version of Peter Skononski.

At least they didn’t draft that loser Spencer Rattler, then they would have no future.

 

[Ring 6]

Calling a person a "good signing" is not saying that the player is good.

When the Pats made the signing, I was excited because it looked like Okorafor could be the Starting RT for the team..

He was a terrible signing. One of the worst ever. He quit football.
The fact that you were wrong that it was a good signing doesn’t make a terrible one a good one, it just makes you wrong.

 

[Wozzy]

Calling a person a "good signing" is not saying that the player is good.

When the Pats made the signing, I was excited because it looked like Okorafor could be the Starting RT for the team. Partially addressing the issue. Had they kept one of Conor McDermott or Calvin Anderson instead of jettisoning them both for a waiver wire pick-up in Jacobs, things might have been different. They'd also have been different if they'd just sat Wallace at LT and told him to learn the position instead of bouncing him all over the place and, as a result putting him in a position to get injured.

What should have been a low-risk signing turned into a nightmare for the team. Mayo, AVP, and Wolf showed they have no clue when it comes to the O-line and building a team. Which is why they ended up having 32 different O-linemen as part of the roster. Even in BB's worst O-line year, he only had 16.

Leverett was supposed to be the new James Ferentz. A back-end player who only got on the field if there were multiple injuries ahead of him. And that's what happened. Jake Andrews being injured all year and then Dave Andrews going down forced Leverett into play. On an O-line that was in complete disarray. He was made a scapegoat by the moron brigade we had as a Coaching staff.

The same with Jordan. Jordan was, arguably, the most consistent O-lineman that the Pats had last year. He gave up 3 sacks, 3 hits and 17 hurries on 441 passing downs. That's journeyman numbers. Yet, he was jettisoned after week 13 for that worthless pick, Layden Robinson (4 sacks, 6 hits, 366 passing downs)

The O-line is the one area that consistency is needed in terms of the players you put on the field. It's been something that @patfanken has reiterated many times over the years.

The Pats did not have ANY consistency last year on the O-line because the Coaching Staff had no idea what they were doing.

There’s never a good time to sign a bad player… a long winded post doesn’t change that.

 

[Wozzy]

Wow. Dudes didn’t put in the work and dedication in the weight room. Doubtful the switch flips now. It doesn’t work like that.

And they both were drafted a round too early. But the one thing they had going for them is what the top pick this year lacks: arm length.

Wolfie really f-cked up tge 2024 draft, didn’t he? Drake Maye needs a supporting cast. Both these lazy dudes ain’t it.

The good news is by late August they will likely have better choices on the waiver wire, picking fourth.

This ^ isn’t true. Strength is the one measurable that any prospect can improve upon substantially as a pro.

 

[rkarp1]

Calling a person a "good signing" is not saying that the player is good.

When the Pats made the signing, I was excited because it looked like Okorafor could be the Starting RT for the team. Partially addressing the issue. Had they kept one of Conor McDermott or Calvin Anderson instead of jettisoning them both for a waiver wire pick-up in Jacobs, things might have been different. They'd also have been different if they'd just sat Wallace at LT and told him to learn the position instead of bouncing him all over the place and, as a result putting him in a position to get injured.

What should have been a low-risk signing turned into a nightmare for the team. Mayo, AVP, and Wolf showed they have no clue when it comes to the O-line and building a team. Which is why they ended up having 32 different O-linemen as part of the roster. Even in BB's worst O-line year, he only had 16.

Leverett was supposed to be the new James Ferentz. A back-end player who only got on the field if there were multiple injuries ahead of him. And that's what happened. Jake Andrews being injured all year and then Dave Andrews going down forced Leverett into play. On an O-line that was in complete disarray. He was made a scapegoat by the moron brigade we had as a Coaching staff.

The same with Jordan. Jordan was, arguably, the most consistent O-lineman that the Pats had last year. He gave up 3 sacks, 3 hits and 17 hurries on 441 passing downs. That's journeyman numbers. Yet, he was jettisoned after week 13 for that worthless pick, Layden Robinson (4 sacks, 6 hits, 366 passing downs)

The O-line is the one area that consistency is needed in terms of the players you put on the field. It's been something that @patfanken has reiterated many times over the years.

The Pats did not have ANY consistency last year on the O-line because the Coaching Staff had no idea what they were doing.

Pats sign Leverette, as the 9th OL on the depth chart, to a contract with $575k guaranteed, and Wozzy talks about him like he got Agholor or Jonnu money