We gotta go get him (Tee Higgins)

[Huckleberry1]

Polk is NOT a Belichick pick. He was taken during the Mayo regime. Furthermore this doesn't change the fact that Wolf and the current SAME outfit of scouts prepared the reports that somehow suggested the guys we ended up taking would be good choices. They have been absolute DUDS.

There's something fundamentally wrong with the Patriots scouting department when it comes to wide receivers and you've said nothing to disprove this assertion which is based on recent evidence and the track record of 20 years of failure. Wolf didn't change that, in fact he has been part of it since 2020.

I'm still waiting to hear about our scouting department getting revamped since Vrabel took over and haven't heard anything yet.

So the Patriots have a new head coach that most are very happy about. A complete overhaul of their coaching staff. A young franchise QB everyone is happy about. 135 Million in cap space. And great draft situation. And you want to ***** about N’ Keal Harry and Tyrian Thornton, and blame Wolf because Belichick picked them.


Have fun with that.

 

[Wozzy]

That confidence would be a big fat ZERO right now.

Not only has the Patriots WR draft luck been dryer than a dead river in the desert the past 20 years but their recent WORST picks: N"keal Harry, Tyquan Thornton, and Ja'Lynn Polk indicate a CRITICAL WEAKNESS in our entire scouting department for picking WRs and all those guys were taken when WOLF was here and involved in our personnel decisions, he joined the Patriots in 2020. And Guess what, he's STILL here now!

But we can't compare past regimes to this one, this is a fresh start.

Vrabel and McDaniels might also coach better results from Polk, Baker... and develop young talent better overall.

 

[Wozzy]

Can you give me an example of money drying up real fast by signing top of the market players? I guarantee any examples you give are from teams that are a lot more desirable as free agent destinations. As a Pats fan not being able to spend the money has been a much bigger issue than the money drying up too fast.

Pay Higgins whatever it takes, if you need more money in the future rework the contracts and convert salary into bonus years. The salary cap is going to keep going up until the nfls popularity decreases which doesn’t sound lucky.

Lets stop pretending that our front office is smarter than others and suggesting we can do better by paying non top of the market contracts in free agency. Being fiscally conservative with a team that needs to spend a lot of money over the next two years doesn’t make sense to me.

How?

By my estimation based on who is actually under contract for the Patriots right now, here is a list of the biggest team needs entering the 2025 offseason... the list isn't small.

On top of all these needs below the team should re-sign Joey Slye to kick, bring Austin Hooper back as the TE2, bring Deatrich Wise back on a short deal, re-sign Christian Ellis, re-sign Jonathan Jones on a short deal and maybe Jaylin Hawkins and Alex Austin for special teams.

OFF-SEASON NEEDS​

LT – STARTING LT
RT – STARTING RT
DT – STARTING DT
FAST WR – STARTING WR
BIG CB – STARTING CB
TE – BLOCKING TE
RB – DEPTH
DE – DEPTH
SLB – DEPTH
SLOT CB – DEPTH

Keep in mind for the starters in the top catagory ^ you need to at least bring in one value vet, one draft pick, and if you want to be safe another late round pick or UDFA.

One person won't fill the job, there will be injuries, retirements, developmental players and straight up failures. Camp will form the team but you need to pay for quality competition. Six starting positions plus depth at four others, plus the free agents of our own we want to keep... that's a lot of players to find in one offseason. The money will dry up quick.

 

[Wozzy]

Higgins is getting $30+ million.

Tee Higgins Rumors: NFL Personnel Expect Bengals Free Agent to Land $30M AAV Contract

Tee Higgins could be due for a massive contract this offseason. Per ESPN's Jeremy Fowler, the Cincinnati Bengals wide receiver's market is expected to be…

bleacherreport.com

The Pats were allegedly the highest bidder on Calvin Ridley, who is trash compared to Higgins. The Pats allegedly offered Ayuke $32.4 and were willing to send SF a 2025 second-round pick, a 2026 fourth-round pick and Kendrick Bourne.

I never claimed to have any confidence in the front office. They have earned nothing to this point. I like how you just think we can wave a magic wand and draft stud WRs. Hahahahaha. Keep dreaming.

Higgins is still getting +$30 million.

I agree he'll get overpaid, and who knows... he might stay healthy, end up in a good situation with a good QB and thrive. Because of his size I'd certainly approve of him over Ridley or Aiyuk. He's not fast but at least Higgins is big. I still would spend my free agent dollars at more critical positions. Line play on both sides of the ball.

 

[Brotherblues]

I agree he'll get overpaid, and who knows... he might stay healthy, end up in a good situation with a good QB and thrive. Because of his size I'd certainly approve of him over Ridley or Aiyuk. He's not fast but at least Higgins is big. I still would spend my free agent dollars at more critical positions. Line play on both sides of the ball.

They can pay whichever WR they like best and whichever linemen they like best on both sides. They have a historically unprecedented cap situation.

 

[Wozzy]

They can pay whichever WR they like best and whichever linemen they like best on both sides. They have a historically unprecedented cap situation.

Historic in what way? They're not the first 4 win team to enter next offseason with the most cap space in the league. They have all their draft picks, including two thirds... but nothing historic.

They need two starting tackles, that's not a cheap proposition in free agency. They need a starting DT because of the uncertainty with Barmore. They need a starter opposite Gonzalez unless they sign Jon Jones, and even if they do so some depth there would be nice. A blocking TE is needed along with depth at RB, DE or OLB.

Ideally they'd be adding a fast starting WR to stretch the field, Higgins doesn't fit that description... even if he'd add to the overall talent level.

 

[VJCPatriot]

They need two starting tackles, that's not a cheap proposition in free agency. They need a starting DT because of the uncertainty with Barmore. They need a starter opposite Gonzalez unless they sign Jon Jones, and even if they do so some depth there would be nice. A blocking TE is needed along with depth at RB, DE or OLB.

Ideally they'd be adding a fast starting WR to stretch the field, Higgins doesn't fit that description... even if he'd add to the overall talent level.

Start with the Left Tackle. Right tackles can be developed. Left tackle is the critical spot that allows the rest of a mediocre line to settle.

Ronnie Stanley and Cam Robinson are the top two rated left tackles in free agency according to PFF. Pay one of them the big bucks to protect Drake Maye's blindside. That will cost 20-25m a year according to the top 5 salaries paid right now.

That should be step 1.

Then we need to upgrade WR. That will cost around 30m for a top tier free agent such as Higgins. Or we can blow 10m on another #3 WR type of which we already have plenty. I don't see the point of wasting the cap space on a mediocre player there. You either get a premium guy who improves the top end or you skip this and spend a top pick in the draft.

Next is DL. We were bad against the run last year. 342.9 yards per game, bottom 10 in the league. Sadly Barmore's medical status is uncertain so we might need to find a run stuffer in free agency or draft. Preferably free agency first to free up draft resources.

That's about it. 3 positions of primary need, the less important needs can be filled in cheaply.

Patriots have 131 million in cap space. 25M for the premium LT, 30m for the premium WR. That still leaves 76m to fill other needs which is plenty. Run stuffing primary DTs are usually cheaper than pass rushing ones so that can be filled in free agency for mid tier money I would hope, if not they can be picked up in middle rounds, such as the 3rd-5th and developed.

 

[PatsFan2]

@Wozzy: Tee Higgins is coming here and I'm getting you his Pats Jersey.

 

[Huckleberry1]

They can pay whichever WR they like best and whichever linemen they like best on both sides. They have a historically unprecedented cap situation.

If I’m not mistaken that 135 cap number is going to go up when the league announces its new cap for the 2025 season. That should come towards the end of February. And there’s plenty of room to be creative with the contracts to maximize the number of good players they can add with it. Unlike the past free agency period I think the Patriots now have the pieces in place with Maye, Vrabel, and the assortment of coaches they have to be a much more desirable destination for free agents than they were last year, and I’m looking forward to seeing how many areas they can shore up with it.

 

[imahobgoblin]

I agree he'll get overpaid, and who knows... he might stay healthy, end up in a good situation with a good QB and thrive. Because of his size I'd certainly approve of him over Ridley or Aiyuk. He's not fast but at least Higgins is big. I still would spend my free agent dollars at more critical positions. Line play on both sides of the ball.

You can't dump $120 million into the lines. We need a LT and RT. Strange, Andrews, Owenu are the starters. Don't put anymore money into guards this season. We have a lot of guard depth that has to be evaluated before we throw more money at guard. I believe in getting the starting tackles in free agency before the draft, then drafting their backups. With the level of talent available in free agency, its not going to cut a bunch into the cap.

The defensive in is more tricky because of Barmore. Retirement is worst case scenario. With his contract, you pray he is the future, but have to plan to be without him. Godchaux has 2 years left on his contract. You can't cut him this year. His salary is $8 million and his dead cap is $10.6. He gets cut next year with an $11 million salary and $3 cap hit. We seem to be switching to more of a four man front. We are going to need a mixture of big boys up front - some who can get penetration and some who are mountains to stop the run. We will sign some, but this draft is one of the best for D linemen. There are some absolute moose and trucks in this draft that could secure the DL for a long time. The list is deep. Money may be able to help the pass rush, but we have to see who gets cut and who actually enters free agency. If we draft Carter, we have a blue chip pass rusher. Pair him with a Von Miller, and that could be dynamic. Buffalo can save $17.4 million if they cut Miller post June.

I have no idea where you as spending all this money at on the lines. Can you make some suggestions?

 

[PatsFan2]

I agree he'll get overpaid, and who knows... he might stay healthy, end up in a good situation with a good QB and thrive. Because of his size I'd certainly approve of him over Ridley or Aiyuk. He's not fast but at least Higgins is big. I still would spend my free agent dollars at more critical positions. Line play on both sides of the ball.

Glad you're coming around Woz.

 

[Wozzy]

Start with the Left Tackle. Right tackles can be developed. Left tackle is the critical spot that allows the rest of a mediocre line to settle.

Ronnie Stanley and Cam Robinson are the top two rated left tackles in free agency according to PFF. Pay one of them the big bucks to protect Drake Maye's blindside. That will cost 20-25m a year according to the top 5 salaries paid right now.

That should be step 1.

Then we need to upgrade WR. That will cost around 30m for a top tier free agent such as Higgins. Or we can blow 10m on another #3 WR type of which we already have plenty. I don't see the point of wasting the cap space on a mediocre player there. You either get a premium guy who improves the top end or you skip this and spend a top pick in the draft.

Next is DL. We were bad against the run last year. 342.9 yards per game, bottom 10 in the league. Sadly Barmore's medical status is uncertain so we might need to find a run stuffer in free agency or draft. Preferably free agency first to free up draft resources.

That's about it. 3 positions of primary need, the less important needs can be filled in cheaply.

Patriots have 131 million in cap space. 25M for the premium LT, 30m for the premium WR. That still leaves 76m to fill other needs which is plenty. Run stuffing primary DTs are usually cheaper than pass rushing ones so that can be filled in free agency for mid tier money I would hope, if not they can be picked up in middle rounds, such as the 3rd-5th and developed.

You’re discussing the most expensive positions in football after the QB position. Also right tackle is not just going to fix itself.

If you can get Godwin on a healthy but shorter deal fine, if you can get Higgins for a lot less than he inevitably thinks he deserves fine… otherwise I’m spending draft capital on WR and bringing in value vets like Darius Slayton.

 

[Wozzy]

@Wozzy: Tee Higgins is coming here and I'm getting you his Pats Jersey.

Cool, just wait a year or so, you might find it in the bargain bin next to the Mac Jones, Okorafor and N’Keal jerseys.

I don’t want you or the Pats to waste money.

 

[Wozzy]

You can't dump $120 million into the lines. We need a LT and RT. Strange, Andrews, Owenu are the starters. Don't put anymore money into guards this season. We have a lot of guard depth that has to be evaluated before we throw more money at guard. I believe in getting the starting tackles in free agency before the draft, then drafting their backups. With the level of talent available in free agency, its not going to cut a bunch into the cap.

The defensive in is more tricky because of Barmore. Retirement is worst case scenario. With his contract, you pray he is the future, but have to plan to be without him. Godchaux has 2 years left on his contract. You can't cut him this year. His salary is $8 million and his dead cap is $10.6. He gets cut next year with an $11 million salary and $3 cap hit. We seem to be switching to more of a four man front. We are going to need a mixture of big boys up front - some who can get penetration and some who are mountains to stop the run. We will sign some, but this draft is one of the best for D linemen. There are some absolute moose and trucks in this draft that could secure the DL for a long time. The list is deep. Money may be able to help the pass rush, but we have to see who gets cut and who actually enters free agency. If we draft Carter, we have a blue chip pass rusher. Pair him with a Von Miller, and that could be dynamic. Buffalo can save $17.4 million if they cut Miller post June.

I have no idea where you as spending all this money at on the lines. Can you make some suggestions?

I have a detailed list of draft needs above, a “fast” WR in on that list. Chris Godwin sure… Higgins not so much.

The positions they need (both tackles, DT,) are among the most expensive positions in football. Spend wisely is my recommendation. Higgins at 30 million per probably doesn’t qualify, not unless it has some serious injury incentives and safeguards.

 

[signbabybrady]

I have a detailed list of draft needs above, a “fast” WR in on that list. Chris Godwin sure… Higgins not so much.

The positions they need (both tackles, DT,) are among the most expensive positions in football. Spend wisely is my recommendation. Higgins at 30 million per probably doesn’t qualify, not unless it has some serious injury incentives and safeguards.

For a moment forget about your opinion of the value of WR on a team (which I do actually somewhat agree with) and how much you think should be spent on it.

Do you think they are going to ignore WR this off-season?

If the answer is no then would you rather spend big on someone like Higgins or use the 4th pick on someone like McMillan?

Those obviously aren't the only options but just curious which you'd rather burn in an attempt to finally get a true number 1 receiver.

 

[imahobgoblin]

I have a detailed list of draft needs above, a “fast” WR in on that list. Chris Godwin sure… Higgins not so much.

The positions they need (both tackles, DT,) are among the most expensive positions in football. Spend wisely is my recommendation. Higgins at 30 million per probably doesn’t qualify, not unless it has some serious injury incentives and safeguards.

Ah ok I finally got it. You actually have no idea what you are talking about. First, in this free agency cycle, there are no OT free agents available that will require the most expensive salaries in football. Second, QBs and WRs are the most expensive positions in football. Spend wisely? Oh gee, so you think there is a single fan or front office member who plans to spend foolishly?

 

[Wozzy]

For a moment forget about your opinion of the value of WR on a team (which I do actually somewhat agree with) and how much you think should be spent on it.

Do you think they are going to ignore WR this off-season?

Of course not…

If the answer is no then would you rather spend big on someone like Higgins or use the 4th pick on someone like McMillan?

Those obviously aren't the only options but just curious which you'd rather burn in an attempt to finally get a true number 1 receiver.

The key to being a great negotiator is the willingness to walk away from a bad deal. At some point the bidding war for Godwin and Higgins might get obscene… walk away.

Draft them, that’s the answer to cheap labor.

 

[Wozzy]

Ah ok I finally got it. You actually have no idea what you are talking about. First, in this free agency cycle, there are no OT free agents available that will require the most expensive salaries in football. Second, QBs and WRs are the most expensive positions in football. Spend wisely? Oh gee, so you think there is a single fan or front office member who plans to spend foolishly?

How did the two teams who overpaid for Calvin Ridley and Brandon Aiyuk do this season?

Enough said…

 

[signbabybrady]

Of course not…

The key to being a great negotiator is the willingness to walk away from a bad deal. At some point the bidding war for Godwin and Higgins might get obscene… walk away.

Draft them, that’s the answer to cheap labor.

Are you willing to use number 4 overall though?

Again I generally agree don't overspend on WR and I'd almost never say use a pick that high. But I'm fairly certain Kraft and Wolf (and probably Cowden/Vrabel too) are going to want to vastly improve the skill surrounding Maye. And I'd rather spend cash on that and use pick 4 for something more important.

 

[Huckleberry1]

For a moment forget about your opinion of the value of WR on a team (which I do actually somewhat agree with) and how much you think should be spent on it.

Do you think they are going to ignore WR this off-season?

If the answer is no then would you rather spend big on someone like Higgins or use the 4th pick on someone like McMillan?

Those obviously aren't the only options but just curious which you'd rather burn in an attempt to finally get a true number 1 receiver.

Macmillan has a really high contested catch rate, which speaks to his inability to consistently get separation at the college level, and in the pros they are all really fast and quick. They need speed at WR. Not a possession receiver. I think MacMillan will continue to drop and Burden will rise as the draft process goes on. If they want another possession receiver with size they should trade up on day 2 and take Jack Bech out of TCU.