Vrabel's Staff Discussion Thread (Discuss related news here)

[Grogan14]

Fair to question but he never had any issues with players under Bill. He was not "in control" and Bill handled things. I think Vrabel would maintain the same level of control and McDaniels would know his role. But hey, it's possible that maybe he has issues relating to players these days...

Caley or Rees seem like fine options, though Caley has never coached QBs to my knowledge. Rees has less experience but has been a QB coach. That does matter IMO. I'd also look at a guy like Josh McCown in Minnesota... Maybe Klint Kubiak in New Orleans, since he'll likely be fired as part of their coaching restructure there... Chad O'Shea might be an option.

Any of the options you mention would be great (except perhaps Chad O'Shea).
Iam against recycling old OC's like McDaniels who have shown some concerning personality issues like:

1. accepting Colts job, then quitting
2. Absolute terrible interactions with Raiders players just 2 years ago...I know it was as HC but still.... see link below

Josh McDaniels was 'shell of himself' after brutal team meeting before firing that reportedly included Patriots jab

Josh McDaniels reportedly couldn't let anyone imply that the Patriots were ever anything less than stellar, even when his Raiders job was in serious jeopardy.

sports.yahoo.com

 

[upstater1]

I can only think of 3 late career top WRs in the last 20 years who were good value for their teams after they were traded.

Randy Moss, Steve Smith and Anquan Boldin.

Most of the time, they seem to flame-out. It's a big risk.

I'm sure I'm missing some names, but I can name so many that went to new teams in their post-age-28 years and were either underwhelming or became headaches for the team: Deandre Hopkins, Julio Jones, Antonio Brown, Davante Adams, Terrel Owens, Reggie Wayne, Brandon Marshall, Deshaun Jackson, Ochocinco, Stephon Diggs, Odell Beckham, Hollywood Brown.

Tyreek Hill has really been worth it, but in the last week, you wonder if he's about to just blow up.

 

[Real fan 02]

Watching last night I noticed he's a captain there. I'm not buying it yet. Of course it would be exciting but I don't want to get my hopes up. For now I like your DK idea more.

I just go back to how disappointed he was for not being drafted to his favorite team.. I remember his coming out party to the league.. happened to been against us in 2018.. plus his relationship with Vrabel..but yes My guy DK is a very realistic possibility..

 

[upstater1]

Fair to question but he never had any issues with players under Bill. He was not "in control" and Bill handled things. I think Vrabel would maintain the same level of control and McDaniels would know his role. But hey, it's possible that maybe he has issues relating to players these days...

Caley or Rees seem like fine options, though Caley has never coached QBs to my knowledge. Rees has less experience but has been a QB coach. That does matter IMO. I'd also look at a guy like Josh McCown in Minnesota... Maybe Klint Kubiak in New Orleans, since he'll likely be fired as part of their coaching restructure there... Chad O'Shea might be an option.

I wonder why they were so certain on NBC last night that it's going to be Josh McD.

 

[signbabybrady]

I just go back to how disappointed he was for not being drafted to his favorite team.. I remember his coming out party to the league.. happened to been against us in 2018.. plus his relationship with Vrabel..but yes My guy DK is a very realistic possibility..

Pats fans for either:

 

[Stu Pidassle]

Yes. Collaboration only works when everyone is on the same page. I believe Vrabel can work with wolf, as Vrabel also brought in his own guy..

Collaboration where everyone gets the opportunity to share their views with one person making the final decision is how things are supposed to work. By definition, collaboration where everyone has to be happy about every decision is compromise which is bad. As an outside observer it seems as if BB did not make everyone feel that their opinions mattered which is also bad. Vrabel has been compared more to Parcells than BB because he is able to better connect at the individual level.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Most of the guys we reupped got 3 year extensions.. Dugger I think his deal would be up in 26? Same with peppers as well. I believe everyone currently here and under contract will be given a clean slate.. especially with Vrabel being here.. he will want to put his touch on the Defense.. Godchaux got a 1 year extension so his future is uncertain here.

Dugger was a 4 year extension and peppers was 3 years.

 

[PatsFan2]

@signbabybrady

Just wanted to touch on AJ brown being unhappy with his role.. what do you think it would take to pry him from eagles??

You saw it too right A.J. Brown doesn't want to be part of a run First Offense. They are going to be some very good WR's available Tyreek Hill - Deebo Samuel - DK Metcalf and maybe D.J Moore just to name a few.

 

[Ross12]

Any of the options you mention would be great (except perhaps Chad O'Shea).
Iam against recycling old OC's like McDaniels who have shown some concerning personality issues like:

1. accepting Colts job, then quitting
2. Absolute terrible interactions with Raiders players just 2 years ago...I know it was as HC but still.... see link below

Josh McDaniels was 'shell of himself' after brutal team meeting before firing that reportedly included Patriots jab

Josh McDaniels reportedly couldn't let anyone imply that the Patriots were ever anything less than stellar, even when his Raiders job was in serious jeopardy.

sports.yahoo.com

I actually wonder how much of the McDaniels/Colts stuff actually caused the Mayo situation. McDaniels nearly left to coach the Colts but Kraft convinced him to stay with promises of tutelage under Bill and being the potential successor. But, obviously, that wasn't contractual and McDaniels got another hot opportunity a couple years later - and Josh most likely also figured Bill had 4-5 more years left in him at least in 2022. So when Kraft faced the same situation with Mayo after that, he tried to prevent that from happening again by sealing a successor clause in the contract.

Side tangent, I suppose. We'll never really know.

 

[Steve102]

To keep Wolf on in any capacity, given his failings in the past under both Bill and Jerrod and given his obvious predilection for infighting, backbiting, and ass-kissing re the owner, is a formula for dysfunction. It is simply another example of Robert's asinine tendency to choose "nice guys" of whom he is fond over guys of demonstrated competence, which Wolf manifestly is not. If it is the case that Vrabel is fine with this, I find that a baffling and foolish concession which he will regret.

Most of the posts here in this matter are voices trying to convince themselves that the arrangement apparently in view will "develop"into a workable system. Why not make an arrangement which will be funmctional and efficient from the start. Such an arrangement begin with firing Wolf. The discussion reminds me of the two or more years wasted pretending Bill was not trash for at least the last two years of his time here. Wolf has failed: get rid of him.

The only thing I am convinced of is that this discussion has already taken place. When Tedy Bruschi said, essentially, there's people who need to sit down and shut up, the adults are talking he no doubt already had that conversation with Vrabel and was delivering that message to whomever it is that needs to shut up.

Does it mean that Wolf is a bad scout and should be thrown out? Or is he simply a bad decision maker? Is he still scoring players under the Belichick system? Is this the new system RKK inferred the other day? There's lots of questions, but I am sure the Vrabel has gotten all these answers already. We just need to wait and see how it all unfolds.

 

[Real fan 02]

Pats fans for either:

Do what you do DK.. I'll find you:

 

[Stu Pidassle]

I have never seen anything that said that MacDaniels incorporated the west coast offense into the E-P offense.

He included some of those concepts in the offense when Cam was QB. Regardless of which system an OC is known for, ignoring the strengths and weaknesses of the players on the field is a recipe for failure.

 

[Real fan 02]

You saw it too right A.J. Brown doesn't want to be part of a run First Offense. They are going to be some WR's available Tyreek Hill - Deebo Samuel - DK Metcalf maybe D.J Moore just to name a few.

You always read my mind PF2 LOL.. you got me all excited like it's my first time at the foxy lady telling me this! Yes.. we all know Barkley is the focus in that offense.. gimme AJ all day.

 

[reflexblue]

He is old news. Time for a change in approach and not recycling old coordinators.

I don't care if hes old news as long as the team wins.

 

[Rob0729]

That is correct. I consider it nonsense.

And I think you are wrong.

And if McDaniels is that adaptable, why didn't he do it in Vegas? His offense was awful. Teams seem to have figured it out.

Josh can adapt his offense for other QBs on a short term basis. Not sure he can do it for years. He hasn't proved it yet.

 

[Ross12]

The only thing I am convinced of is that this discussion has already taken place. When Tedy Bruschi said, essentially, there's people who need to sit down and shut up, the adults are talking he no doubt already had that conversation with Vrabel and was delivering that message to whomever it is that needs to shut up.

Does it mean that Wolf is a bad scout and should be thrown out? Or is he simply a bad decision maker? Is he still scoring players under the Belichick system? Is this the new system RKK inferred the other day? There's lots of questions, but I am sure the Vrabel has gotten all these answers already. We just need to wait and see how it all unfolds.

Wolf simply is not the type of guy who needs to be told to sit down or shut up. He's not assertive or aggressive. He's admitted this year that he actually was not assertive enough and needs to do a better job of taking control of things. So, when pairing that with Bruschi's comments, that tells me that other people around Wolf have been inserting themselves where they don't belong and causing problems. Who? I don't know, but I can't imagine it is Wolf. Although Wolf still has some blame, since he did not fix it himself and he deserves to have final say stripped from him due to that - and I think he would take that willingly as he may have realized he is not actually suited to hold that power right now anyway. However, he does not necessarily deserve to be removed from the equation entirely.

 

[PatsFan2]

You always read my mind PF2 LOL.. you got me all excited like it's my first time at the foxy lady telling me this! Yes.. we all know Barkley is the focus in that offense.. gimme AJ all day.

No wonder @One-If-By-Sea thought we were the same person.

 

[Real fan 02]

Collaboration where everyone gets the opportunity to share their views with one person making the final decision is how things are supposed to work. By definition, collaboration where everyone has to be happy about every decision is compromise which is bad. As an outside observer it seems as if BB did not make everyone feel that their opinions mattered which is also bad. Vrabel has been compared more to Parcells than BB because he is able to better connect at the individual level.

Your right. I did hear of Vrabel being compared to Parcells. When Bill took over with grier still I. Place. He brung in pioli.. it just feels reminiscent thst Vrabel came back and brung his guy in with him too.

 

[Real fan 02]

No wonder @One-If-By-Sea thought we were the same person.

I know right LOL.. even after the Mods debunked it. Our posting style is similar.

 

[PatsFan2]

And I think you are wrong.

And if McDaniels is that adaptable, why didn't he do it in Vegas? His offense was awful. Teams seem to have figured it out.

Josh can adapt his offense for other QBs on a short term basis. Not sure he can do it for years. He hasn't proved it yet.

The Raiders had ****ty QB's.