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Vrabel's Staff Discussion Thread (Discuss related news here)

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McDaniels'offense of five years ago is not the same as it was working with Brady. McDaniels is an egghead student of the game who has proven very adaptable over the years. There have been many reports that he has reworked/simplified/"modernized" his offensive approach during this period of unemploymant. The fact, which you acknowledge, that he has adapted to multiple qb's over the years and has done an excellent job of developing all of them demonstrates that he can do the same with Maye. You write, "Josh can tailor the offense to fit Maye, but that isn't the same as implementing a system that is actually suited for Maye's skills and strengths." I have no idea what if anything that means. You acknowledge that Josh can "tailor" an offense adapted to Maye's skills, then assume for no valid reason that he would struggle to "implement" that adapted offense. The fact that he has "tailored" and "implemented" modified approaches for several qb's contradicts this baffling assumption.

If you are good enough, you can tailor any offense to fit any QB. Look at it this way. You want to drag race. If you had the money and expertise, you could turn a Cadillac Escalade into a drag racer, but would it be the best vehicle to make a drag racer. Would it maximize your drag racing skills?

I am sure McVay or Shanahan could have tailored their offenses to suit Brady, but would their offenses maximize Brady's skills? There is a difference between taking an offense that isn't built to maximize the skills of a QB and tailoring it around him to make it fit his skills than taking an offense that was built to maximize his skills and fine tuning it.
 
I'm not trying to be a Wolf apologist, but wasn't he absolutely correct in pointing out that Mayo's staff's coaching and development wasn't what it needed to be?
Indeed. First, however, the fact of Mayo's incompetence does not logically imply that Wolf himself was competent in his part of the task of rebuilding the roster, and second the fact that his response to failure is to excuse his own poor performance by pointing out the failures of others indicates that he is the sort of self-serving punk one does not want around any organization. I think we may rest assured that he has likely been whining to the Krafts about how the patent failure of his approach to the last draft is none of his doing. Anyone who has worked for a while understands the damage done by such whiners and tattletales.
 
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GB: You had Mike on your staff. You went against him in the AFC South ... What's your reaction to the news?

BOB
: Yeah, I was very happy for the Patriots and for Mike. I knew, obviously Mike from when I coached with the Patriots the first time around. Mike was the type of guy, no matter what position you had on the coaching staff, he knew everybody. So I was quality control/wide receiver coach while Mike was there, and we got to know each other. And then when I went to Penn State, I tried to hire him at Penn State - he wasn't going to leave Ohio State. And then he was one of the first guys I hired in Houston and did a great job coaching. I always tell people, look at the development of guys like WhitneyMercilus, Jadeveon Clowney, Brian Cushingwhen we got there, Mike did all that, Mike coached the **** out of those guys. Then he was the defensive coordinator in '17, we weren't very good, we had a lot of injuries. And then he got the head job at the Titans, and then we coached against him, and had battles and went back and forth. Just a very well-coached team, very tough team. We had similar type teams, you know, Houston and Tennessee, when I was there. He just did a great job. And he's the thing about Mike, he's a great friend. He's a good guy. He's a man's man. He knows a lot about your family. He's just a really good, good person, you know, good guy. It's a great choice by the Krafts.

Some Patriots fans think this is just going back to the glory days, going back to how Bill Belichick did things, but they're really different aren't they?

There'll be some things that are, you know, obviously keys to success, right? Like situational football and things like that. But Mike's got a really good personality, relative to coaching the team, being in front of the team. All of us have different styles. Mike has a unique style as to how he deals with an individual player or a position group, or obviously the team. Mike's worked for UrbanMeyer. He worked for me. He's worked with different staffs, different coaches, the people he worked with at Tennessee. So he knows that there are different ways to skin a cat, and he'll bring his own style to the Patriots. No, no, I wouldn't say that at all relative to you're hiring somebody that's just gonna do it exactly like Bill. I mean, I tell people all the time, Greg, there's only one Bill/ Like there will never be another Bill. There's not gonna be anybody that ... Mike certainly has his own style and his own way of doing things.

In Houston, did he do a good job of reaching guys individually and getting them to play at a higher level?

That's probably one of the things that he does the best. That's a strength of his, that he has a way of getting to know somebody and understanding where the guy comes from, what makes the guy tick, how to inspire a guy. We always talk about not necessarily motivating somebody, but just inspiring somebody to be more than what they are. And that's one of his strengths. He does a really good job of that. He's very smart, right? So he knows how coach the positions. He knows both sides of the ball, special teams. He's got a good base of knowledge that'll really help those guys get better at every position.

He went to the Browns and helped with the tight ends and offensive line, and learned how they approached analytics. Does that surprise you?


Yeah, I knew that he was doing that, and that didn't surprise me at all, because he's the type of guy that he could probably go coach the offensive line for the Cleveland Browns, or coach the tight ends. He understands what it what it takes to teach those positions, because he's put the time in. I remember one time we did a staff clinic. So I gave each guy, like an area to kind of present to the subject as present to the staff. And he had tackling. So he went through all the different types of tackles that took place that year, in whatever year it was, 2016 in the NFL. Side tackles, straight-on tackles, sideline tackles, angle ... I mean, just all kinds of different tackles. And he presented it to the staff, and had different ways to teach tackling, and different ways to think about tackling, how to take on a stiff arm. It was really, really good. And I think that's what he is. He puts a lot of time into all facets of football. And I think that's why you saw that he could, you know, help out with the offensive line in Cleveland this year
 
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If you are good enough, you can tailor any offense to fit any QB. Look at it this way. You want to drag race. If you had the money and expertise, you could turn a Cadillac Escalade into a drag racer, but would it be the best vehicle to make a drag racer. Would it maximize your drag racing skills?

I am sure McVay or Shanahan could have tailored their offenses to suit Brady, but would their offenses maximize Brady's skills? There is a difference between taking an offense that isn't built to maximize the skills of a QB and tailoring it around him to make it fit his skills than taking an offense that was built to maximize his skills and fine tuning it.
I see no difference whatever. This is a classic distinction without a difference in my mind.
 
I'm wondering what this means? Collaboration with who? Are we saying Mayo had a hand in the selection of Polk and Wallace?
Honestly I don't think there was much of a collaboration with Mayo.. he seemingly was "guided " or "encouraged " on roster decisions. Polk is 100% Wolf's pick.
 
I'm fine with McD as long as he makes a firm commitment to stay for at least 3 years, we have witnessed the debacle in NY as they change their OC's quickly and the resulting damage to emerging QB's in their system see Gino Smith and Sam Darnold..
With Vrabel and whoever he chooses in key positions need commitment to and stability of that position if we are to return to prominence..
The primary concern is to have an OC that can capitalize on Maye's strengths so he can continue to develop in a consistent system..
None of the OCs the Jete have gotten rid of have gone on to succeed elsewhere. So the problem isn't that they get rid of those bums, but that they replace them with equally bad bums.

Which is all part of a bigger problem there that goes all the way up to Woody. Whatever our complaints about RK, and I have my share, I thank my lucky stars he ain't Woody.
 
But... others improved...

Kayshon Boutte for instance.

I think we're making way too much out of this.

Demario Douglas and Boutte had better years. But they were also second year players with a much better QB. Improvement may be expected. It would be very hard to know what the coaches did to help improve the two of them.

They didn't help improve Tyquan. No one can help improve Tyquan.

I think the same is true of Polk.

Baker has more ability than Polk but he's obviously a guy the nicest coaching staff in the world couldn't rely on. Getting yanked for just disregarding your coaches is not a good sign at all.
Did Boutte improve, though? Or did he just show us who he is? The guy didn't even really play at all in 2023 (totaled 7 targets for 2 receptions and 19 yards in the whole year). As you said, Thornton also did not improve, Polk regressed vs. what he did in college and early in the season, and Baker did literally nothing. Osborn was a known commodity WR3 and came here and did nothing. We already mentioned Pop and Bourne So I don't really feel like Boutte proves otherwise.
 
He had a major problem because of gm in Tennessee. He was hottest coach on market. You think he would take this job if his guy wasn’t gm? No chance in hell. They’re keeping wolf and will most likely fire him and everyone after draft. Just like 2000
 

Seriously you do not see the difference in trying to tailor an offense that doesn't fit a QB's skill set and taking an offense that does and fine tuning it?
 
Haven't seen the whole thread but my main concern about staffing is:

Are they gonna fill everything with guys who are unemployed or who just had a role in non-playoff seasons for their teams?

Or will they have some patience, wait for more playoff teams to get eliminated, and poach the most promising assistants from the top tier teams?
 
Would love to see Nick Caley under serious consideration
Very qualified and would bring McVay magic
 
We aren’t hiring him to be HC. I could not care less if players don’t like the way he acted as HC. I certainly don’t want to act based upon the opinion of the crew of losers on the raiders.

The "nice guy" horseshit is what got us a wasted year with niceguy/charming travel companion Jerrod Mayo. I'd rather deal with a man like Vrabel who is another sort of (actual) "nice guy" than Wolf or Mayo, a person of actual substance and accomplishment rather than a people-pleasing nullity spewing sweet nothings (until he got all cranky and petulant) like Mayo. From what I read, Vrabel is a person who actually does build relationships with players, helps them out, rather than just recycling old Oprah dreck.

As for Wolf's being a "nice guy," I don't buy it. We tend in this epicene age to assume that being a simpering weakling is synonymous with being a nice guy in a worthwhile sense: it isn't, not if niceness is an actual virtue anyway, which seems to me pretty questionable tbh. Wolf, like Mayo in the end, seems to me more passive aggressive than anything more actually virtuous, and there is some evidence he undercut Mayo, stabbed him in the back. The battle of the "nice guys": no thanks. MAYBE if Wolf had demonstrated competence, we could overlook his punkish ways, but he has not, neither under Bill nor working with Mayo.

I'd boot him out the door and good riddance. Why would Vrabel want a back-stabbing nepo punk, left over from a failed regime, of no demonstrated competence, hanging around trying to carve out his own little empire by kissing up the owner and blaming others for his failings. Ridiculous, and another example of the Krafts hanging on to some nullity because - you guessed it - he's such a "nice guy."
You must have lots of insider information regarding Wolf. I'm sure it's not just conjecture. Is it?
 
Did Boutte improve, though? Or did he just show us who he is? The guy didn't even really play at all in 2023 (totaled 7 targets for 2 receptions and 19 yards in the whole year). As you said, Thornton also did not improve, Polk regressed vs. what he did in college and early in the season, and Baker did literally nothing. Osborn was a known commodity WR3 and came here and did nothing. We already mentioned Pop and Bourne So I don't really feel like Boutte proves otherwise.
And a lot of defensive players regressed.
 
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