Vrabel's Staff Discussion Thread (Discuss related news here)

[Thelonious]

From what I've heard, Wolf is an extremely nice guy and he tried to be too collaborative. Based on personality types I'm pretty confident that Vrabel will be the alpha when it comes to final say.

Wolf wiffed on Polk. I think he thought he had his slot receiver in DD. I think coaching or lack thereof might of played a role in Polk and Baker not developing.

I didn't mind his Draft strategy from a positional standpoint this past draft. We were so depleted at key positions he couldn't take a BPA approach. Drafting Milton was a great move. I'm sure there are a number of GMs kicking themselves.

The contracts he signed are certainly worth a second guess. I heard his strategy is to acquire good players and adapt the system around them vs fit.

I'm more curious about Groh and his future.

The "nice guy" horseshit is what got us a wasted year with niceguy/charming travel companion Jerrod Mayo. I'd rather deal with a man like Vrabel who is another sort of (actual) "nice guy" than Wolf or Mayo, a person of actual substance and accomplishment rather than a people-pleasing nullity spewing sweet nothings (until he got all cranky and petulant) like Mayo. From what I read, Vrabel is a person who actually does build relationships with players, helps them out, rather than just recycling old Oprah dreck.

As for Wolf's being a "nice guy," I don't buy it. We tend in this epicene age to assume that being a simpering weakling is synonymous with being a nice guy in a worthwhile sense: it isn't, not if niceness is an actual virtue anyway, which seems to me pretty questionable tbh. Wolf, like Mayo in the end, seems to me more passive aggressive than anything more actually virtuous, and there is some evidence he undercut Mayo, stabbed him in the back. The battle of the "nice guys": no thanks. MAYBE if Wolf had demonstrated competence, we could overlook his punkish ways, but he has not, neither under Bill nor working with Mayo.

I'd boot him out the door and good riddance. Why would Vrabel want a back-stabbing nepo punk, left over from a failed regime, of no demonstrated competence, hanging around trying to carve out his own little empire by kissing up the owner and blaming others for his failings. Ridiculous, and another example of the Krafts hanging on to some nullity because - you guessed it - he's such a "nice guy."

 

[oldrover]

@Patjew

Vrabel, Vrabel, Vrabel, the Pats hired him today!
If players' heads are on straight, for Vrabel they will play!

[bows deeply]

@Pape @Steve102

 

[Zuma]

FYI Douglas has more receptions, yards, YAC and TD’s in 2024 than 2023. His catch percentage in 2024 was 76…excellent.

He could be better with McDaniels however.

 

[TomPatriot]

I think people are making too big of a deal about the EP system. As I understand it, it’s a communication system. Yes, the offense was extremely complicated with Brady, but that was playing to Brady’s strengths and evolved over time. Brady’s ability to process a defense and to do it so quickly was probably unmatched in league history. McDaniels simplified things for Cam and to a lesser degree for Mac.

The same goes for a WC system. None of these systems really exists anymore. They are antiquated because each has morphed into one another. Weiss/McDaniels incorporated zone blocking, slide pass pro, motion, horizontal pass and run concepts for years. These are all WC concepts. I really don’t see much of a problem.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

Deleted- wrong thread.

 

[Ring 6]

No. I'm saying keep the system.

I've said nothing about keeping AVP.

How do you keep the man’s system without keeping the man. And his system sucks.

 

[Rob0729]

My initial reaction was I want nothing to do with Josh McDaniels. I wanted a fresh start and a clean break from the dynasty. The more I think about it though, the more I think he is the right guy.

The thing that swayed me was listening to Patriots Unfiltered the other day when they mentioned Josh has spent that past year visiting different college campuses studying college offenses. He has made a real effort to try and modernize his scheme and stay up to date with the latest trends. I believe he spent time at Alabama, Ohio State, Oklahoma, USC and possibly more.

There is no doubt Josh is an excellent OC that can implement and teach a system, run an offense and call plays. If he can modernize his scheme and add some new concepts to his vast knowledge and experience, he could be the perfect guy for Drake Maye.

It would make me feel better if he did modernize his offense because it needs it, but the question is can it be modernized and be effective?

I still question whether McDaniels' offense can be as successful today and whether it fits Maye. Yes, Josh can tailor the offense to fit Maye, but that isn't the same as implementing a system that is actually suited for Maye's skills and strengths.

 

[Rob0729]

From what I've heard, Wolf is an extremely nice guy and he tried to be too collaborative. Based on personality types I'm pretty confident that Vrabel will be the alpha when it comes to final say.

Wolf wiffed on Polk. I think he thought he had his slot receiver in DD. I think coaching or lack thereof might of played a role in Polk and Baker not developing.

I didn't mind his Draft strategy from a positional standpoint this past draft. We were so depleted at key positions he couldn't take a BPA approach. Drafting Milton was a great move. I'm sure there are a number of GMs kicking themselves.

The contracts he signed are certainly worth a second guess. I heard his strategy is to acquire good players and adapt the system around them vs fit.

I'm more curious about Groh and his future.

Still not sure if Wolf whiffed on Polk. Did he whiff or did the coaching staff do a crap job developing him or both? We will see next year if Polk rebounds.

Sure, in hindsight, passing on McConkey was a huge mistake. But at the time, many people thought Polk was the steal of the draft. And I tend to think McConkey wouldn't have been half the player he was this year if he was in a Patriots' uniform.

 

[Water Boy]

I'd boot him out the door and good riddance. Why would Vrabel want a back-stabbing nepo punk, left over from a failed regime, of no demonstrated competence, hanging around trying to carve out his own little empire by kissing up the owner and blaming others for his failings.

I'm not trying to be a Wolf apologist, but wasn't he absolutely correct in pointing out that Mayo's staff's coaching and development wasn't what it needed to be?

 

[EMpats]

Josh can absolutely take advantage of Mayes skill set. His system is completely adaptable and he’ll probably mix timing throws from the pocket with play action shot plays and things like bootlegs and qb runs to get Maye on the move.

Many of Mayes best plays are improvising out or structure of the offense anyway.

Plus Josh can grow with him for 5+ years which is unique for a big name offensive coordinator.

Josh made Mac jones look like an nfl QB For a year. Imagine what he’ll do with drake.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

From what I've heard, Wolf is an extremely nice guy and he tried to be too collaborative. Based on personality types I'm pretty confident that Vrabel will be the alpha when it comes to final say.

Wolf wiffed on Polk. I think he thought he had his slot receiver in DD. I think coaching or lack thereof might of played a role in Polk and Baker not developing.

I didn't mind his Draft strategy from a positional standpoint this past draft. We were so depleted at key positions he couldn't take a BPA approach. Drafting Milton was a great move. I'm sure there are a number of GMs kicking themselves.

The contracts he signed are certainly worth a second guess. I heard his strategy is to acquire good players and adapt the system around them vs fit.

I'm more curious about Groh and his future.

How did it work out not taking BPA? Trying to fill holes in the draft is a losing strategy. Fill holes in FA and draft BPA.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Josh can absolutely take advantage of Mayes skill set. His system is completely adaptable and he’ll probably mix timing throws from the pocket with play action shot plays and things like bootlegs and qb runs to get Maye on the move.

Many of Mayes best plays are improvising out or structure of the offense anyway.

Plus Josh can grow with him for 5+ years which is unique for a big name offensive coordinator.

Josh made Mac jones look like an nfl QB For a year. Imagine what he’ll do with drake.

I agree.

But when did Mac look like a NFL QB for a year? Maybe you meant for 9 games?

 

[festy1986]

I'm not trying to be a Wolf apologist, but wasn't he absolutely correct in pointing out that Mayo's staff's coaching and development wasn't what it needed to be?

What he was doing was throwing his coaches under the bus trying to save his own job.

Had he said that 8 weeks ago maybe. Not a week before the season ends.

Anyway we can't keep the guy because this man valued Polk over McConkley. That's unforgivable. He had zero business trading out of that pick just to pick a WR anyway.

Clear as day that was a financial move. Pay someone less at 38 than at 34.

 

[Real fan 02]

FYI Douglas has more receptions, yards, YAC and TD’s in 2024 than 2023. His catch percentage in 2024 was 76…excellent.

He could be better with McDaniels however.

agreed. I think some people get to caught up in a " west coast offense ".. we just need an offense that works and fits Drake and maximizes his abilities. McDaniels IMO is the perfect guy that can do this for Drake.

 

[Brotherblues]

McDaniels got $85m from Oakland. He never has to work again in his life. Those aren't the guys you want.

Imagine someone in the Broncos last year using Sean Payton's career earnings as a drawback.

Ditto in the Chargers with Harbaugh.

If Stephen King wants to write your biography you don't turn him down for having made too much money selling books.

(not that I think that highly of McDaniels, just making the point about money)

 

[upstater1]

Yes. Collaboration only works when everyone is on the same page. I believe Vrabel can work with wolf, as Vrabel also brought in his own guy..

I'm wondering what this means? Collaboration with who? Are we saying Mayo had a hand in the selection of Polk and Wallace?

 

[Thelonious]

It would make me feel better if he did modernize his offense because it needs it, but the question is can it be modernized and be effective?

I still question whether McDaniels' offense can be as successful today and whether it fits Maye. Yes, Josh can tailor the offense to fit Maye, but that isn't the same as implementing a system that is actually suited for Maye's skills and strengths.

McDaniels'offense of five years ago is not the same as it was working with Brady. McDaniels is an egghead student of the game who has proven very adaptable over the years. There have been many reports that he has reworked/simplified/"modernized" his offensive approach during this period of unemploymant. The fact, which you acknowledge, that he has adapted to multiple qb's over the years and has done an excellent job of developing all of them demonstrates that he can do the same with Maye. You write, "Josh can tailor the offense to fit Maye, but that isn't the same as implementing a system that is actually suited for Maye's skills and strengths." I have no idea what if anything that means. You acknowledge that Josh can "tailor" an offense adapted to Maye's skills, then assume for no valid reason that he would struggle to "implement" that adapted offense. The fact that he has "tailored" and "implemented" modified approaches for several qb's contradicts this baffling assumption.

 

[upstater1]

Douglas is a good point - he regressed from 2023 to 2024. Bourne also looked worse even if some of that is likely due to injury rust.

But... others improved...

Kayshon Boutte for instance.

I think we're making way too much out of this.

Demario Douglas and Boutte had better years. But they were also second year players with a much better QB. Improvement may be expected. It would be very hard to know what the coaches did to help improve the two of them.

They didn't help improve Tyquan. No one can help improve Tyquan.

I think the same is true of Polk.

Baker has more ability than Polk but he's obviously a guy the nicest coaching staff in the world couldn't rely on. Getting yanked for just disregarding your coaches is not a good sign at all.

 

[Zuma]

There have been many reports that he has reworked/simplified/"modernized" his offensive approach during this period of unemploymant.

Their has? I mean I think he has as well…adding McVay concepts but never once saw a report about it.

 

[RobertWeathers]

How do you keep the man’s system without keeping the man. And his system sucks.

You know what I mean. Stop it.