Reading the Tea Leaves on Mayo and Wolf (Personal Speculation)

[Hammer of Thor]

No owner knows football. It's not their job. It's an unfair rap.

In about a week we will know if they know enough to put their trust into someone else.

The judgement the first time was flawed. OK. They made a mistake. But they knew enough to stay out of BB and Brady's way for 6 Super Bowls.

So they deserve some slack until we know what they do.

The quote was that the Krafts think they know football. That’s the problem. Unless you’re Al Davis or George Halas, there’s less than a 1% chance a billionaire businessman knows football. But the issue is that some owners don’t realize this, and fall victim to the Dunning Kruger effect. Jerry Jones and Woody Johnson are obvious examples here. And it is completely clear Kraft was heading down that path until Belichick started winning. The hope was (and the stories put out to the media from the Krafts indicated) that Kraft learned the errors of his way and let the football people make the football decisions. In reality, that only lasted as long as Belichick was winning. Once he stopped winning, the Krafts appear to have reverted back to Jerry Jones and Woody Johnson status. The Krafts don’t deserve some slack precisely because we have seen this behavior from them before.

Stan Kroenke knows nothing about football. But he is smart enough to know that he knows nothing about it. He hired Les Sneed, who he realized did know something about football, and let him run operations while Kroenke worked the non-football elements. That’s worked out pretty well. That’s what I want to see the Krafts do. I’ll even go back to James Orthwein. He’s bad news around these parts justifiably for trying to move the team. But from a football perspective, he also realized he knew nothing about the game, so hired the best guy on the market in Parcells and let him run the show and stayed out of it.

 

[Rob0729]

The poison pill contract never happens had the Pats been more aggressive to retain Martin. Bob was bragging to the media in 1997 that Martin was "cheap labor". The only reason Parcells stepped in was because he knew the Pats had no intention of signing him long term. If you were one of the best RB's in the league, but offered 6 years $12M (mediocre RB money), that would upset you too.

The locker room was divided on Carroll, only because they were used to Parcells hard approach and the rest of the AFC was starting to catch up to them by 1998. They would've been the #2 seed and in the AFCCG game in 1997 had Martin, Glenn and McGinest not been injured during the season. The roster had deteriorated by 1999 and yet they were 2 missed kicks away from being 10-6. In Carroll's words, he was screwed over.

Brady gave Bob a chance to pay him what he wanted, but he didn't do it. Bill wasn't going to throw a fit and leave because Brady was going to stay for 2 more years. That's ridiculous. Tom got fed up and demanded he franchise tag clause be removed after the 2019 season or he was going to sit out (according to Brian Hoyer) and Bob obliged.

You do realize if Parcells and Martin never left, there probably would never have been Belichick and Brady on the Patriots?

And it was Grier, not Kraft who bragged to the media.

Carroll divided the locker room because his coaching style wouldn't be effective in the NFL for another 10 years. In the 90s, most player coaches were jokes because that was time of double sessions, multiple padded practices a week, and players needing to kick ass in practice. It isn't like today where players have one padded practice a week in a good week. You needed to be a hard ass coach back then.

And stop with that Belichick wanted to keep Brady, but Kraft overruled him. Belichick had been working on a replacement strategy for Brady since he drafted Garoppolo and he publicly said that Brady only had a few more years left. Belichick and Brady's relationship was toxic at the end. There was a divorce coming. I would be who Kraft backed more and it was Belichick. Belichick was not sad to see Brady leave.

 

[Rob0729]

He built a huge house in Brookline

Because he was the QB for the NEP. He needed a place to live. He sold it even before he left the Patriots. Even his last few years with the Patriots, they were dividing their time between NY and Brookline. The Bradys couldn't get out of New England fast enough after he left the Patriots. It isn't like he owns a house in New England now despite owning multiple homes around the country.

 

[Boston Boxer]

My first choice would be Ben Johnson and you bring former Patriot and assistant GM Ray Agnew with him as the GM.

My second choice is Vrabel. Knows the town, can fix the defense, etc. I'd make sure you can align the GM to him so there's a good working relationship.

My third choice is Brian Flores. He got a raw deal in Miami and I think he's going to make somebody an excellent HC. He would also come in and fix the defense.

They're in the perfect position to trade down, get a haul for #1 and do a major fast overhaul when you couple that with how much cap space they have. The time is now. If Roberts screws this up we'll waste that opportunity and all of Drake Maye's rookie deal. As much as I think Mayo needs to go the front GM and scouting department need to go more.

I have been wanting Flores back in the building for a while now. I would lean towards Vrabel because he has head coaching experience, but Brian Flores would be a strong candidate (edit: he was the head coach of the Dolphins). What i do know is i don't like what i am seeing from this current group of coaches. this is not the place to learn on the fly. I doubt Mayo gets fired due to his relationship with Kraft...so he will get a couple more years

 

[borg]

I have been wanting Flores back in the building for a while now. I would lean towards Vrabel because he has head coaching experience, but Brian Flores would be a strong candidate

Flores has head coaching experience

 

[mike_usagisan]

What are the tea leaves that suggest the Krafts are preparing to get rid of Mayo? When Bill was going, there were rumors everywhere that he would be fired, that Mayo would be coach and Wolf would be GM. There are no rumors this time. It’s just pundits saying Mayo should go. That’s not tea leaves, that’s just spilling the tea.

 

[Boston Boxer]

Flores has head coaching experience

i like to pretend he never coached for the Dolphins.

 

[Rob0729]

I have been wanting Flores back in the building for a while now. I would lean towards Vrabel because he has head coaching experience, but Brian Flores would be a strong candidate

Flores has head coaching experience. My concern is his offenses weren't great in Miami.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

In Jerrah’s defense he was a member of the Arkansas National Championship team, as oppose to Kraft who was a member of the chess club.

I’ve said it before, Kraft wants to control this team, so puppets like Mayo and Wild will be staying!

 

[upstater1]

Because he was the QB for the NEP. He needed a place to live. He sold it even before he left the Patriots. Even his last few years with the Patriots, they were dividing their time between NY and Brookline. The Bradys couldn't get out of New England fast enough after he left the Patriots. It isn't like he owns a house in New England now despite owning multiple homes around the country.

AFTER he left the Patriots.

But you don't build a home like that unless you expect to stay.

He's obviously got an incredible amount of money so he could do anything he wants in terms of having houses all over the place. But they sold their LA house and built the Boston one.

You may be right though, because I don't think Brady is entirely forthcoming about wanting to end his carer with the Patriots. He wouldn't have been on Ross's yacht trying to make inroads with Flores if he had 100% intentions to stay.

I think Brady saw what we all saw with an aging team in 2019, and you could certainly see Brady's frustrations with the injuries on the OL (remember Marshall Newhouse) and all the WR bust situations (Demaryious Thomas, NKeal Harry, Antonio Brown, Edelman's injury, Gronk's retirement, Mo Sanu). I'd never seen McDaniels so visibly upset and frustrated by Brady that year. It was already the end of an era, we just didn't know it, and Brady already had eyes for other teams knowing that New England was old and slow.

 

[Pacific Coast Patriot]

The thing is... by making Mayo HC they never really cleaned house from BB to begin with.

You just hired a less experienced, less disciplined guy who learned what he knows about coaching from Bill.

I thought this when he was hired, and now it has proven correct.

Time for proper external hires - no more BB disciples like Vrabel.. honestly whats the point, you may as well have kept BB who's clearly better than his disciples.

 

[Rob0729]

AFTER he left the Patriots.

But you don't build a home like that unless you expect to stay.

He's obviously got an incredible amount of money so he could do anything he wants in terms of having houses all over the place. But they sold their LA house and built the Boston one.

You may be right though, because I don't think Brady is entirely forthcoming about wanting to end his carer with the Patriots. He wouldn't have been on Ross's yacht trying to make inroads with Flores if he had 100% intentions to stay.

I think Brady saw what we all saw with an aging team in 2019, and you could certainly see Brady's frustrations with the injuries on the OL (remember Marshall Newhouse) and all the WR bust situations (Demaryious Thomas, NKeal Harry, Antonio Brown, Edelman's injury, Gronk's retirement, Mo Sanu). I'd never seen McDaniels so visibly upset and frustrated by Brady that year. It was already the end of an era, we just didn't know it, and Brady already had eyes for other teams knowing that New England was old and slow.

Ask Dr. Dre if Brady would build a home like that and not expect to stay. The Bradys built a better in Beverly Hills and they sold it to Dr. Dre 5 years after they completed it.

Dr. Dre Is Reportedly Buying The $50 Million Mansion Tom Brady And Gisele Built From Scratch

Putting the Beats money to good use.

www.businessinsider.com

And Brady put his home up for sale before the 2019 season.

Tom Brady talks down rumors with house up for sale

And yes, I think Brady was done in New England. He was getting near the end of his career and didn't want to go through a rebuild. He was clearly frustrated with the team in 2019 and many perceived his poor performance that year (for him) as signs of him hitting the age wall. He just couldn't raise up mediocre talent anymore.

 

[Hugepatsfan]

Vrabel and Flores have shown some head coaching chops, but also some warts. We saw it work out as well as it ever has with BB here in his second head coaching stop. But as much as you want to list "head coaching experience" as a plus for a candidate, pretty much by definition you have to list it as a negative to because if he's available to you it (9 times out of 10) means he got fired for some reason.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Also I think Kraft is a little paranoid about being stabbed in the back if things go bad, which is a risk if he goes outside of his comfort zone of choices.

Not sure what you mean. Who and why would he be stabbed in the back?

 

[Hammer of Thor]

Vrabel and Flores have shown some head coaching chops, but also some warts. We saw it work out as well as it ever has with BB here in his second head coaching stop. But as much as you want to list "head coaching experience" as a plus for a candidate, pretty much by definition you have to list it as a negative to because if he's available to you it (9 times out of 10) means he got fired for some reason.

It’s a double-edged sword, because sometimes the coach got hired because the reason the owner fired him was a stupid one. Belichick should never have been fired from Cleveland but Modell was dumb. Jim Harbaugh was fired by the 49ers because ownership sided with Trent Baalke, which was a dumb decision.

It comes down to facts and circumstances. What I’ve read about the Vrabel situation makes it sound like the Titans made an error in my opinion. Flores I’m more skeptical of; the team did play hard for him, but he definitely messed up the offense and the team started playing better once McDonald took over. But there’s a lot of concern about the ownership issue in that one too. I’d have to get more information.

 

[TomPatriot]

What are the tea leaves that suggest the Krafts are preparing to get rid of Mayo? When Bill was going, there were rumors everywhere that he would be fired, that Mayo would be coach and Wolf would be GM. There are no rumors this time. It’s just pundits saying Mayo should go. That’s not tea leaves, that’s just spilling the tea.

Nah, it’s what happens when you put mayonnaise in the tea.

 

[TheRainMaker]

You do realize if Parcells and Martin never left, there probably would never have been Belichick and Brady on the Patriots?

What do you mean? Parcells left the Jets after 1999 allowing BB to be the HC. The same most likely would’ve been done in NE.

And it was Grier, not Kraft who bragged to the media.

It was Bob.

“Just allow me to note that if Pats owner Bob Kraft hadn’t insinuated Martin would have a short shelf-life, if Kraft hadn’t spent much of the ’97 season gloating about what cheap labor Martin was,”

Curtis Martin: The one who got away

Originally wrote this in 2001, just as the Patriots were emerging but old friend Curtis Martin was habitually haunting them with those smooth cutback moves. Seems appropriate to repost today given all that’s happening this weekend. Congrats, No. 28. It’s all worked out beautifully for the...

www.boston.com

And stop with that Belichick wanted to keep Brady, but Kraft overruled him.

I never said that.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

no more BB disciples like Vrabel

Coaching wise Vrabel isn’t a BB disciple at all

 

[Rob0729]

What do you mean? Parcells left the Jets after 1999 allowing BB to be the HC. The same most likely would’ve been done in NE.

It was Bob.

“Just allow me to note that if Pats owner Bob Kraft hadn’t insinuated Martin would have a short shelf-life, if Kraft hadn’t spent much of the ’97 season gloating about what cheap labor Martin was,”

Curtis Martin: The one who got away

Originally wrote this in 2001, just as the Patriots were emerging but old friend Curtis Martin was habitually haunting them with those smooth cutback moves. Seems appropriate to repost today given all that’s happening this weekend. Congrats, No. 28. It’s all worked out beautifully for the...

www.boston.com

I never said that.

What do I mean? If Martin and Parcells stayed, the whole course of history would have changed for the Patriots. There is zero percent chance that the course of all their lives would have stayed the same. Odds would have been good that Belichick would have gotten another head coaching job somewhere else before Parcells stepped down or he would have replaced Parcells sooner than 2000 and the odds are good that the Pats wouldn't have drafted Brady. The Patriots' fortune would have been different and Pats would have been in a different place when Belichick took over if he did. The only way the Dynasty Years happen if everything that came before it happens as it did. You start changing the course of history and everything changes.

You can't argue that you change history that Parcells and Martin stays, the Pats might even win the Super Bowl in the late 90s and then Belichick takes over and everything that happened after that stays exactly the same as it did after that. There is no guarantee **** Rehebin is on the Patriots' staff to go to bat for Brady. The Pats would have already had a QB coach working with Belichick that Bledsoe might have loved. No guarantee Pioli is with the Pats to help make picks (he took over for the Bobby Grier role with the Jets in 1997 and then followed Belichick to the Patriots). Everything would have changed.

I will admit I was wrong about who bragging about Martin being cheap labor. It was three decades ago.

I misread what you said about Belichick, but Belichick could have left if Kraft sided with Brady. Not because he didn't want Brady and couldn't out stay him, but because of the same reason Parcells left. He felt the owner undercut his authority.

 

[PancakeBlockPaul]

All this said, if Brian Daboll becomes available, and Kraft is not at least trying to bring Vrabel/Daboll into town, then I'm moving on.

Willing to move on after going through watching Cam? I know the record was better but at least Drakes competent compared to Cam. Cmon, sit back and watch a few more years of incompetence. It’ll only get better…I promise…. /teehee /s