PostGame Thread Patriots Lose to The Cardinals 30-17 in Arizona

[BUSTAMOVE]

One is a leader; one is not a leader.

The puzzling thing about it is Mayo during his introduction Presser stated he took classes on Leadership while working at the job he had after his football career ended. He should have got a Tutor

 

[upstater1]

Bingo! that's the point Players have regressed under Mayo that's a sign. He's not HC material he can't outcoach Sean McDermott - Mike McDaniel or anybody the Jets get will eventually Hire. That alone should be cause for concern.

I read this morning where some of the media and even the coaches were blaming the players for some of Conners's long runs.

I looked at the pay in depth and they were so wrong to blame a majority of the players. One player was indeed to blame for not setting the edge, and that's Keion White. But failure to set the edge is something other coaches would never have stood for.

But then Taylor Kyles also blamed Dugger for not making the tackle when he was unblocked. Dugger was on the LOS clear over on the weak side, and Conners popped it to the left behind strong side blocking. Dugger had to trek from the LOS clear across the field to try to run down Conners. That was never going to happen when you repeatedly design a defense with your strong safety at the LOS on the edge. The defensive design is wrong. Sure, Peppers might have taken a bad angle too, but he has to contend with multiple blockers coming at him after White vacated the edge.

This is bad defense by design. I don't care what Kyles is arguing about unblocked defenders. They are OUT OF POSITION. And one bad play by a key defender (Keion White in this case) should not be enough to totally destroy an entire defense.

 

[The Gr8est]

The puzzling thing about it is Mayo during his introduction Presser stated he took classes on Leadership while working at the job he had after his football career ended. He should have got a Tutor

I wonder if Drake took any classes in leadership.

If you have to take classes, maybe you are just faking it.

 

[upstater1]

The puzzling thing about it is Mayo during his introduction Presser stated he took classes on Leadership while working at the job he had after his football career ended. He should have got a Tutor

Or, being a successful corporate executive requires a lot of blame-shifting and CYA techniques.

We're too accustomed in the USA to assuming that there's anything transferable or magical about business practices. I see it in my work all the time when they hire consultants who don't know ****e from shinola to come in and lecture us, the experts, on what we're doing. It's a waste of time.

 

[oceansizer]

Not exactly. Stevens was a good coach and he moved into the actual GM role. He has done a good job there too due to his experience as a coach. This would be a bad coach moving into a nondescript front office role to do little to nothing.

Exactly. Stevens was a good coach who was able to draft great players. Them he got promoted.
Mayo so far is just a lost man.

 

[PatsFan2]

I read this morning where some of the media and even the coaches were blaming the players for some of Conners's long runs.

I looked at the pay in depth and they were so wrong to blame a majority of the players. One player was indeed to blame for not setting the edge, and that's Keion White. But failure to set the edge is something other coaches would never have stood for.

But then Taylor Kyles also blamed Dugger for not making the tackle when he was unblocked. Dugger was on the LOS clear over on the weak side, and Conners popped it to the left behind strong side blocking. Dugger had to trek from the LOS clear across the field to try to run down Conners. That was never going to happen when you repeatedly design a defense with your strong safety at the LOS on the edge. The defensive design is wrong. Sure, Peppers might have taken a bad angle too, but he has to contend with multiple blockers coming at him after White vacated the edge.

This is bad defense by design. I don't care what Kyles is arguing about unblocked defenders. They are OUT OF POSITION. And one bad play by a key defender (Keion White in this case) should not be enough to totally destroy an entire defense.

That's what happens with a boot licker HC that have no clue about X' and O's.

 

[Real fan 02]

The biggest risk is failing Drake to the point that he wants out.

That is on the Krafts to ensure he gets the support and that does not happen.

Bob’s ego will just have to man up and take it.

Your right! I hope that it doesn't get to that point. Is why this offseason is ever so important for the direction of the franchise.. RK is going to have to suck it up and really understand he made a mistake he can fix this with hiring the right HC.

 

[mgteich]

It's starting hurt the Patriots image. They are being looked at as dysfunctional. This was a proud organization for decades. RK needs to do the right thing and get a real staff in here not the YMCA staff. . Dabol could maximize Drake.

It is truly sad that folks don't think that Maye is developing well enough under the current staff.

This should be a HUGE plus for the staff NOT a criticism.

 

[mgteich]

From Mike Reiss of all people today:

“The Patriots got what they deserved, it was an unacceptable performance for a team coming off a bye, and there should be genuine soul-searching at all levels of the organization for how a team with a Patriots logo on the helmet could allow that to happen.”

Reiss rarely ever criticizes the team very heavily and is pretty deferential to the Krafts, so this is eye opening.

Edit: removed the tweet link since @sb1 posted it before me by like 5 seconds lol

Reiss didn't watch last year's game in Germany.

 

[The Gr8est]

It is truly sad that folks don't think that Maye is developing well enough under the current staff.

This should be a HUGE plus for the staff NOT a criticism.

And Drake has pointed out that AVP is most responsible for his development.

I bet AVP could do even better if he didn’t have to spend so much time crawling out from under the bus.

Keep AVP to coach Maye, and **** can everyone else.

 

[mgteich]

BOTTOM LINE
Kraft has 4 decisions to make.
1) Does he hire a GM who Wolf will report to?
2) Does he allow/suggest that Wolf make whatever changes he needs to make in the coaching staff.
3) Does he allow the new GM or Wolf to remove Mayo from his current position.
4) Does he ORDER the new GM and Wolf to spend the current cap money and defer into the future to produce a competitive team under Maye (competitive for the division and beyond).
=======
Wolf and Mayo won't be fired.
=====
BTW, the best way to start the new season would be to announce the signing of Higgins on the first day. That would show that the team is serious about moving forward. This is true whether it is Wolf or a new GM running things.

 

[The Gr8est]

BOTTOM LINE
Kraft has 4 decisions to make.
1) Does he hire a GM who Wolf will report to?
2) Does he allow/suggest that Wolf make whatever changes he needs to make in the coaching staff.
3) Does he allow the new GM or Wolf to remove Mayo from his current position.
4) Does he ORDER the new GM and Wolf to spend the current cap money and defer into the future to produce a competitive team under Maye (competitive for the division and beyond).
=======
Wolf and Mayo won't be fired.
=====
BTW, the best way to start the new season would be to announce the signing of Higgins on the first day. That would show that the team is serious about moving forward. This is true whether it is Wolf or a new GM running things.

No, he has 5 decisions to make.

5) Fire Mayo and admit his mistake in hiring him.

 

[Real fan 02]

It is truly sad that folks don't think that Maye is developing well enough under the current staff.

This should be a HUGE plus for the staff NOT a criticism.

Personally he is. But instead of opening up the play sheet AVP can't get creative beucase the OL is so bad. Sadly AVP takes the fall for this. Under Mayo it's just gotten worse each week. Outside of Drake there is no reason for us to watch this team the rest of the way. They're undisciplined, the defense has had communication problems all season long. No pass rush whatsoever.

 

[50-yard-line]

Bring in Joe Brady as HC. offer him the moon, the stars, and the sun.
Keep AVP as OC, but Brady calls the plays.
Steal Jim Schwartz away from Cleveland as Defensive Coordinator. If you can't get him, get Robert Saleh.

Get people who have proven they can call plays!

 

[mgteich]

No, he has 5 decisions to make.

5) Fire Mayo and admit his mistake in hiring him.

No, he has 5 decisions to make.

5) Fire Mayo and admit his mistake in hiring him.

Fair enough
5) Does he fire Mayo?

I didn't include because, fr me, I covered Mayo stepping down in #3. Kraft has a large company. Mayo could be "fired" as coach as be given a job somewhere else in Kraft's organization.

It seems that you aren't looking for improvement. You are looking for an apology from Kraft and to punish Mayo. For me, I just want someone other than Mayo making overall coaching decisions. Kraft is a billionaire. I'm fine with wherever he chooses to Mayo to do.

 

[The Gr8est]

Fair enough
5) Does he fire Mayo?

I didn't include because, fr me, I covered Mayo stepping down in #3. Kraft has a large company. Mayo could be "fired" as coach as be given a job somewhere else in Kraft's organization.

It seems that you aren't looking for improvement. You are looking for an apology from Kraft and to punish Mayo. For me, I just want someone other than Mayo making overall coaching decisions. Kraft is a billionaire. I'm fine with wherever he chooses to Mayo to do.

Kraft DOES need to admit his mistake.

His handling of this damaged BB then, and the Pats now.

If you buy a Powerball ticket and it loses, you need to admit depending on it winning was a poor plan.

 

[PatsFan2]

Bring in Joe Brady as HC. offer him the moon, the stars, and the sun.
Keep AVP as OC, but Brady calls the plays.
Steal Jim Schwartz away from Cleveland as Defensive Coordinator. If you can't get him, get Robert Saleh.

Get people who have proven they can call plays!

Everybody was talking about Ben Johnson... Joe Brady says hold my beer. What a Black Monday class.

 

[Ross12]

Quick ALL-22 review this week, not as much free time this week and next so will not start own thread as not as in depth.

Is it players or coaches? Both. Many plays in this game showed it is both.

Positives:
-Layden Robinson played his best game. I thought he was pretty bad every other game so not as great as it sounds but this is the first game he played I thought he might actually end up an NFL starter. He had the holding call, kind of a weird hold IMO but was called and can see why ref did but kind of questionable. He totally whiffed in the red zone on 3rd and 1, totally whiffed a 2nd level block early in the game. However, was one of the few guys getting actual push on the line (Onwenu the other) and his pass blocking was solid. Arizona is not great on the line but major step forward IMO.
-Gonzalez and Maye continue to show they are stars.
-Marcus Jones is a player, is sad to see he has more YAC ability than any receiver on the team. You can see what a Travis Hunter at WR could do.
-Dell Pettus got beat a couple times but they had him on McBride 1 on 1 quite a bit and he should have had help. The few times McBride was covered by Dugger or Peppers they couldn't stay within 5 yards.
-I thought Barmore had his best game, not back to last year but a step forward.

-They have some players that can help moving forward.

-Lowe had his worst game in a long time, Ben Brown was terrible also. Onwenu was good, Jacobs was solid and Robinson was Ok but for him that's actually a big step up.
-In terms of coaching, if you are going to see what the younger players can do, why don't you play them?
-Alex Austin 25 snaps but J Jones gets 42? Austin was OK in this game, got beat a few times but wasn't thrown to, still shows some closing speed but, again, seems to need it too often as he has trouble sticking with receivers. Would like to see him get more snaps and see what happens.
-Pettus gets 18 snaps yet Dugger and Peppers are 70 and 69. Peppers took bad angles all game long. Dugger looked the best he has but still lacks coverage skills and took a bad angle on the big Dortch play.

Reviewing some of the important/interesting plays in the game
-The play call that caused the Kraft's to look miffed: Lowe missed his bock right away, at the same time Henry AND Robinson both whiffed on their second level blocks. 3 missed blocks on the play. So not sure the play call was the issue, that 1 was on the players.
-The big play to Dortch was a sample of bad players and bad coaching. They had M. Jones and Pettus covering 2 guys. It was a WR screen and because it was thrown behind the line the TE was legally allowed to block Jones as ball was in the air. Pettus probably should have seen that and switched, but the coaching on that was poor as they were in man and neither CB looked to switch. Peppers then took a bad angle and Dugger then missed an open field tackle. It was a good play call but poorly defended which was the fault of the defensive coaching and the players.
-Final TD run at the goal line for the Cards the alignment made it easy, Card had basically 4 blockers on 2 guys in the hole they ran thru. Terrible defensive alignment, that was on the coaches.
-On the Pats 3rd and 1 Robinson blew a block and then on the 4th and 1 Lowe missed a block causing Sow at FB to have to block his guy, leaving the LB unblocked to fill the hole.

Here are some off-season moves:
1-Sign Cam Robinson, he's not great but he's solid and a step up and probably the best that will actually be available.
2-Sign Higgins, if he gets to free agency he's easily the #1 target, overpay f you must
3-If you do those 2 things then draft Hunter. He's by far the best prospect so just do it.
4-If you do all the above I'd then go after Chase Young, yeah he's been disappointing, but he is probably the best edge rusher FA, Reddick might be a sneaky other option.

Alternative:
The other option is to trade down, if you can find someone to give you enough capital that you can trade back up to the end of the first, take Carter and trade back up for someone like Emeka Egbuka
Carter is the best edge rush prospect in the draft but not sure he's a 3 down player but in a weak draft he'd be the best option. I'm 100% in on Hunter but I'm not going to ignore all trade possibilities or ignore the fact he might not be there when they pick.

If they end up with the 3rd overall pick, they’d be in position to get one of the very few “blue chip” prospects in Travis Hunter. However, he is probably better utilized as a full-time CB with package plays as a WR, and NE already has a shutdown CB and package-play CB. But I would guess some teams would be willing to trade up for him, even if the return isn’t huge. You’d then be able to still get two good second-tier prospects at more needy positions.

 

[Jim Beankie]

By the way, I can't stand seeing Peppers wearing that helmet condom.

At least it's ribbed

 

[KCSVEN]

If they end up with the 3rd overall pick, they’d be in position to get one of the very few “blue chip” prospects in Travis Hunter. However, he is probably better utilized as a full-time CB with package plays as a WR, and NE already has a shutdown CB and package-play CB. But I would guess some teams would be willing to trade up for him, even if the return isn’t huge. You’d then be able to still get two good second-tier prospects at more needy positions.

Depends on the 2 players, the draft is weak, only 12, at most, actual first round talents. You need to end up with 2 firsts to give up Hunter, don't see that happening.
If you can get a 2026 first and a top 10 pick in 2025, maybe. Odds less than 1 % of that.