PostGame Thread Patriots Lose to the Dolphins 15-10, Drop to 1-4

[KCSVEN]

The not-so-subtle but understood aspect of this is that we were NOT playing to win, in terms of trying to somehow sneak into the Wild Card spot because that was basically unattainable and not particularly desirable for a team in Year 1 of a rebuild, but were focused on the future. Hence we are also looking to get good draft picks for next year too, where we can hopefully get some foundational pieces for critical positions such as the OL where we have a clear talent deficit after years of bad drafting late in the rounds because of our dynastic success.

Having been on vacation (Scotland FTW!) and missed the last two games previous, and not having opened the GDT for quite some time, I'm quite surprised to discover we were in "win now!" mode.

So, for me, and I understand I'm in a very small minority here, I actually enjoyed that game and watched it to the end and saw some things I can look forward to in the future - the growth of the WRs and the young guys on the Defense in particular. I'm up for trading pieces for Draft picks and I am not at all phased by losing even to teams as sad as these LOLphins were since it gives us a real leg up on the draft position. Give us a real OT or two and nobody will remember this game except for the comedy. When life gives you lemons...

What you are saying makes too much sense for an internet message board LOL.
I am mostly on board with everything you say, you can't control a few people that have unrealistic expectations.

I can't say I enjoy watching bad QB play especially when you sit a much better QB on the bench for reasons that have proven to be false reasons historically.

I'm not so sure a wild card was unattainable. If Maye started and played better than Jacoby, not a stretch, they are currently 3-2 with the hardest part of their schedule behind them.
Would they win in the playoffs, very unlikely as the roster is not good BUT there are only a few good teams. Who we got left that you would consider a playoff contender? Bills and Texans for sure and then some maybe, maybe nots at best in Bears and Cardinals.

Also, you want to see the coaching be creative, have a good game plan etc. since they are all new in their rolls, but it's been lacking a bit. Though I thought the defensive game plan was so much better yesterday than it was the previous 2 weeks.
AVP is looking like a "games past him by" retread so far though admittedly he can't run his whole offense with the issues they have,

Basically, you want to see hope they are goingin the right direction, you can't say Maye has looked like he belongs and get excited by that because they don't play him.
Next year's draft is much weaker than this past draft, it seems at this point, so hard to get excited about a top pick there. Not sure much difference between 15 and 3. Just want some excitement for the future and so far they are not giving you much hope it's going in the right direction and since they are going to play Maye at least by the second half of the year he will play them out of the top 5 pick anyways.

 

[Real fan 02]

Only if they pay me.

3rd and 2, twice, and they threw the ball, once for negative yards. Explain AVP to me. Anyone.

I'm referring to Drake being the starter and Milton being the back up. Both are better than Brissett. I'm sorry but I look at Minshew, Dalton and Flacco all veteran back ups better than Brissett. It's just utter embarrassing to watch the offense.

 

[Kasmir]

Okay, so I guess I'm way out of step with the fanbase. I was under the impression that we were in the first year of a rebuild under a new coach, knew we had a bunch of spare parts and young guys at several position groups particularly the offensive line and had lost the two main defensive dudes in the middle of our at-the-time decent defense for the year. I had therefore concluded, obviously wrongly, that our objectives this year were to figure out some important things going forward about the players and schemes we were going to take as our direction while building experience among our rookies and new coaching staff and carefully shepherding our #3 Draft Pick QB so he can be put in a position to succeed. The not-so-subtle but understood aspect of this is that we were NOT playing to win, in terms of trying to somehow sneak into the Wild Card spot because that was basically unattainable and not particularly desirable for a team in Year 1 of a rebuild, but were focused on the future. Hence we are also looking to get good draft picks for next year too, where we can hopefully get some foundational pieces for critical positions such as the OL where we have a clear talent deficit after years of bad drafting late in the rounds because of our dynastic success.

Having been on vacation (Scotland FTW!) and missed the last two games previous, and not having opened the GDT for quite some time, I'm quite surprised to discover we were in "win now!" mode. I'm shocked that we're already at the stage of wanting to fire the coach in Game 5 since I had understood we were in no position to win given what I wrote above, not to mention that we also lost our anchor and leader on the OL for the season and our two most experienced safeties to boot. This left us with basically two giant holes up the center of the Offense and Defense, and you could easily see the impacts this had on our inability to stop their running game and pass rush.

I don't get it. It was a comically entertaining game, with Buttfumble Sanchez providing a suitable substitute for the Benny Hill theme throughout the travesty while the referees tried to deal with having been accidentally dropped off at a mid-level high school football game. Yet the GDT was not at all unlike it used to be when the games mattered and we were trying to win and usually did. Do we really want Maye getting the crap beat out of him as he runs for his life behind the remnants of a college offensive line like poor Jacoby did? Will this "help" him progress towards becoming an elite QB? Football, I had heard, was won in the trenches and we ain't got nobody there to compete. So why sacrifice the future for a meaningless win against another crappy football team. Let me remind you - Miami was 11-6 and lost in the Wild Card game last year, then lost their #1 high draft pick QB to injury and look at what they're like now.

So I'm watching first of all because I'm a fan of the NEP and have done so since 1973 and watched through the years even when they went 1-15 (Marc Wilson! Tommy Hodson!) and weren't much better afterwards (Hugh Millen!). As with then, I look for guys I can root for, diamonds or at least agates in the rough, some progression in where we're going, things like that. I don't recall venting angrily although I probably had a few laughs shaking my head sadly and making funny comments about the pathetic state of the team. And probably drank a lot more than I do now.

So in that vein, allow me to provide a small amount of positivity that I saw. Jacoby is who he is and we knew that already, he's there to take hits while we improve our draft position and try to get some sort of continuity and protection from the OL. He showed real toughness and leadership while trying to win against the odds. Good job buddy, and tough way to make a living but he did it like the Pro he is. No, he's not a high level QB. Were you under the impression that he was?

Marte Mapu I thought played with heart and handled a difficult task as the Defensive Captain on an undermanned side quite well, all things considered. The D played much better than they were given credit for, hard when you're out on the field being pounded for so long, you wear down. Also props to Christian Gonzalez who is a real one and future All-Pro IMHO. The Joneses played hard and well too. Not a bad performance until they broke down against the run late given the lack of Duggar and Peppers.

Rham ran hard and protected the football, showed his elusiveness and toughness again. Polk gets open and makes catches, looks like he's a keeper. Douglas had some important plays and could well have had more if our QB were a higher level one. Boutte showed up in the run and passing games. Guess they're easing Bourne back into the mix. The OL prevented anything sustainable from happening because they were just barely College level and couldn't stop committing penalties. That's clearly the thing we need to focus on fixing.

So, for me, and I understand I'm in a very small minority here, I actually enjoyed that game and watched it to the end and saw some things I can look forward to in the future - the growth of the WRs and the young guys on the Defense in particular. I'm up for trading pieces for Draft picks and I am not at all phased by losing even to teams as sad as these LOLphins were since it gives us a real leg up on the draft position. Give us a real OT or two and nobody will remember this game except for the comedy. When life gives you lemons...

I'm amazed that anyone can enjoy watching anything about this sh*t show. I feel especially bad for season tickets holders. Not that it will happen, but the team really should provide a rebate to compensate for (apparently) deliberately not fielding a competitive team.

Expecting fans to continue pay exorbitant major league prices to watch a minor league team "play" exhibition matches every week doesn't seem sustainable to me. TV viewership has to be down and I wonder what's happening with ticket sales.

 

[Thelonious]

It seems to me that we have reached an inflection point over the past couple of games, such that we can draw, maybe tentatively, maybe not, a few conclusions about the team:

1) The plan to have Brissett start early in the season, on the assumption that he would play well enough that we could get a decent evaluation of other players on offense and create a setting in which they could develop, all the while coaching Maye up to a point where he could take over at some point, seemed to me a plan reasonable enough that it ought to be given time to work. The fact that a plan is reasonable, however, can never be a guarantee that it will work, and this plan did not. I won't rehash all the arguments pro and con for starting Maye immediately, but I will say that in light of "The Plan's" failure it is time NOW to do so. One need not embrace the handwringing over the "mutiny" (What a waste of time), but if I were a player I'd be getting damned frustrated hearing my coaches talk about how Brissett "gives us the best chance to win" when anyone can see what an utter load of horseshit that is.

2) If it were any other HC on any other team, and that team showed the sloppiness, indiscipline, inconsistency and general ****uppery of this team, we would all say that team has a HC who is doing a lousy job. And if we were to attribute that lousy job to his being unqualified by experience, perhaps by temperament and knowledge, for that job, if it seemed that the hiring process which put him in place was unprofessional, hasty, and based on what a pleasant travel companion the owner found him to be, we would at least begin to wonder if it might be time for a new generation of leadership at the very top of the organization.

3) The GM in place is obviously incompetent. The OC has failed to develop the offense at a rate or in a manner which is acceptable. Even the most obvious of changes in scheme and personnel, many of which even so dismal a roster as this could master, have not been accomplished, and the result is an offense so dysfunctional that, aside from putting us in a position where we cannot win games, an offense which fails to provide a setting in which devlopment and evaluation of the offensive players is even possible.

What actions ought one take in light of the above? I would inform Mayo and VanPelt that their status is now probationary, and I would establish clear benchmarks for their retaining their jobs past season's end. I would fire Wolf and most of his hold-over staff immediately. I woud start Maye next week.

 

[Real fan 02]

I'm amazed that anyone can enjoy watching anything about this sh*t show. I feel especially bad for season tickets holders. Not that it will happen, but the team really should provide a rebate to compensate for (apparently) deliberately not fielding a competitive team.

Expecting fans to continue pay exorbitant major league prices to watch a minor league team "play" exhibition matches every week doesn't seem sustainable to me. TV viewership has to be down and I wonder what's happening with ticket sales.

It's embarrassing. I mean we've been a **** show for past 3 seasons.. we look like a 1950s offense. There is NOTHING whatsoever to feel good about save for Drake playing. At 1-4 , and on the cusp of 1-5 this Sunday.

 

[festy1986]

I’m sorry but you don’t understand the rule.
He didn’t tap his toe, his entire foot landed, and part of it was out of bounds.

Yes if his heels didn’t come down it’s a catch because his feet would have been in bounds. The second foot wasn’t because he exact didn’t tap it, the entire foot landed and part was out of bounds.

It won’t be called differently, because it was a simple call for anyone who understands the rule.

Except the rule also describes a delay. Which there was. The heel does not land out of bounds without first establishing a delay.

Do you deny that the top of his foot was in bounds and THEN the rest of his foot lands out of bounds?

If you don't, what is that if not a delay?

 

[festy1986]

It's embarrassing. I mean we've been a **** show for past 3 seasons.. we look like a 1950s offense. There is NOTHING whatsoever to feel good about save for Drake playing. At 1-4 , and on the cusp of 1-5 this Sunday.

I would argue that since the Patriots started 8 and 0 in 2019, they have had ONE good half season of football since. That was Mac Jones first half of his rookie season.

This offense has been dog **** going back to at least 2018.

This has been really hard to watch for over a half decade.

 

[PatsFan2]

What you are saying makes too much sense for an internet message board LOL.
I am mostly on board with everything you say, you can't control a few people that have unrealistic expectations.

I can't say I enjoy watching bad QB play especially when you sit a much better QB on the bench for reasons that have proven to be false reasons historically.

I'm not so sure a wild card was unattainable. If Maye started and played better than Jacoby, not a stretch, they are currently 3-2 with the hardest part of their schedule behind them.
Would they win in the playoffs, very unlikely as the roster is not good BUT there are only a few good teams. Who we got left that you would consider a playoff contender? Bills and Texans for sure and then some maybe, maybe nots at best in Bears and Cardinals.

Also, you want to see the coaching be creative, have a good game plan etc. since they are all new in their rolls, but it's been lacking a bit. Though I thought the defensive game plan was so much better yesterday than it was the previous 2 weeks.
AVP is looking like a "games past him by" retread so far though admittedly he can't run his whole offense with the issues they have,

Basically, you want to see hope they are goingin the right direction, you can't say Maye has looked like he belongs and get excited by that because they don't play him.
Next year's draft is much weaker than this past draft, it seems at this point, so hard to get excited about a top pick there. Not sure much difference between 15 and 3. Just want some excitement for the future and so far they are not giving you much hope it's going in the right direction and since they are going to play Maye at least by the second half of the year he will play them out of the top 5 pick anyways.

Nailed it that was the mistake this Team made not signing the QB AVP had success with Jump Ball Joe threw for over 300yds. But AVP thought Brissett was better think AVP is getting Canned at years end terrible OC.

 

[PatsFan2]

It's embarrassing. I mean we've been a **** show for past 3 seasons.. we look like a 1950s offense. There is NOTHING whatsoever to feel good about save for Drake playing. At 1-4 , and on the cusp of 1-5 this Sunday.

I hope RK is a meddling Owner the Fans deserve better. We can't even beat a Team with a Third String QB it's that bad.

 

[Ring 6]

Except the rule also describes a delay. Which there was. The heel does not land out of bounds without first establishing a delay.

Do you deny that the top of his foot was in bounds and THEN the rest of his foot lands out of bounds?

If you don't, what is that if not a delay?

What are you talking about? There is no “delay” in a foot landing.

The rule is very simple. When your foot lands every piece that touches the ground must be in bounds.

You are grasping at straws. There is no rule that leads to that being a catch.

 

[Ring 6]

Nailed it that was the mistake this Team made not signing the QB AVP had success with Jump Ball Joe threw for over 300yds. But AVP thought Brissett was better think AVP is getting Canned this at years end terrible OC.

The fortunes of this franchise aren’t resting on signing Joe Flacco. Maye must play.
Hard to blame the OC for GM decisions.

 

[Ross12]

Okay, so I guess I'm way out of step with the fanbase. I was under the impression that we were in the first year of a rebuild under a new coach, knew we had a bunch of spare parts and young guys at several position groups particularly the offensive line and had lost the two main defensive dudes in the middle of our at-the-time decent defense for the year. I had therefore concluded, obviously wrongly, that our objectives this year were to figure out some important things going forward about the players and schemes we were going to take as our direction while building experience among our rookies and new coaching staff and carefully shepherding our #3 Draft Pick QB so he can be put in a position to succeed. The not-so-subtle but understood aspect of this is that we were NOT playing to win, in terms of trying to somehow sneak into the Wild Card spot because that was basically unattainable and not particularly desirable for a team in Year 1 of a rebuild, but were focused on the future. Hence we are also looking to get good draft picks for next year too, where we can hopefully get some foundational pieces for critical positions such as the OL where we have a clear talent deficit after years of bad drafting late in the rounds because of our dynastic success.

Having been on vacation (Scotland FTW!) and missed the last two games previous, and not having opened the GDT for quite some time, I'm quite surprised to discover we were in "win now!" mode. I'm shocked that we're already at the stage of wanting to fire the coach in Game 5 since I had understood we were in no position to win given what I wrote above, not to mention that we also lost our anchor and leader on the OL for the season and our two most experienced safeties to boot. This left us with basically two giant holes up the center of the Offense and Defense, and you could easily see the impacts this had on our inability to stop their running game and pass rush.

I don't get it. It was a comically entertaining game, with Buttfumble Sanchez providing a suitable substitute for the Benny Hill theme throughout the travesty while the referees tried to deal with having been accidentally dropped off at a mid-level high school football game. Yet the GDT was not at all unlike it used to be when the games mattered and we were trying to win and usually did. Do we really want Maye getting the crap beat out of him as he runs for his life behind the remnants of a college offensive line like poor Jacoby did? Will this "help" him progress towards becoming an elite QB? Football, I had heard, was won in the trenches and we ain't got nobody there to compete. So why sacrifice the future for a meaningless win against another crappy football team. Let me remind you - Miami was 11-6 and lost in the Wild Card game last year, then lost their #1 high draft pick QB to injury and look at what they're like now.

So I'm watching first of all because I'm a fan of the NEP and have done so since 1973 and watched through the years even when they went 1-15 (Marc Wilson! Tommy Hodson!) and weren't much better afterwards (Hugh Millen!). As with then, I look for guys I can root for, diamonds or at least agates in the rough, some progression in where we're going, things like that. I don't recall venting angrily although I probably had a few laughs shaking my head sadly and making funny comments about the pathetic state of the team. And probably drank a lot more than I do now.

So in that vein, allow me to provide a small amount of positivity that I saw. Jacoby is who he is and we knew that already, he's there to take hits while we improve our draft position and try to get some sort of continuity and protection from the OL. He showed real toughness and leadership while trying to win against the odds. Good job buddy, and tough way to make a living but he did it like the Pro he is. No, he's not a high level QB. Were you under the impression that he was?

Marte Mapu I thought played with heart and handled a difficult task as the Defensive Captain on an undermanned side quite well, all things considered. The D played much better than they were given credit for, hard when you're out on the field being pounded for so long, you wear down. Also props to Christian Gonzalez who is a real one and future All-Pro IMHO. The Joneses played hard and well too. Not a bad performance until they broke down against the run late given the lack of Duggar and Peppers.

Rham ran hard and protected the football, showed his elusiveness and toughness again. Polk gets open and makes catches, looks like he's a keeper. Douglas had some important plays and could well have had more if our QB were a higher level one. Boutte showed up in the run and passing games. Guess they're easing Bourne back into the mix. The OL prevented anything sustainable from happening because they were just barely College level and couldn't stop committing penalties. That's clearly the thing we need to focus on fixing.

So, for me, and I understand I'm in a very small minority here, I actually enjoyed that game and watched it to the end and saw some things I can look forward to in the future - the growth of the WRs and the young guys on the Defense in particular. I'm up for trading pieces for Draft picks and I am not at all phased by losing even to teams as sad as these LOLphins were since it gives us a real leg up on the draft position. Give us a real OT or two and nobody will remember this game except for the comedy. When life gives you lemons...

I understand your perspective and I would be fine with watching a team give effort while losing but also growing as a unit and getting a good understanding of what they have.

Instead the team just looks listless. The defense at least gives an effort and seems like there is some semblance of a plan there but it is not always executed well by all players. But the offense literally looks like vanilla “Fisher Price My First NFL Offense Playset” play calling. There seems to be no creativity, no insight, no attempt to do anything meaningful, no attempt to move the ball particularly well, and it’s all executed horribly by a QB who looks like he’s stuck buffering when he attempts to read the field. Who is growing, who is developing, what are we learning about the team from this crap show?

Then Mayo’s answers during his press conferences at this point sound outright idiotic and make him look totally in over his head, which he must be. He blames the players every week for not executing, as if it’s not his job as the coach to enforce that execution or else take them off the field. He seems to refuse to take anyone off the field, and the players know it.

So yeah, I have a hard time enjoying anything about the team as it is presently operating and don’t have a lot of hope for the future at the moment. Maybe when Maye eventually plays in some far flung unknown future week, Van Pelt will suddenly give an effort with play calling and it will all look competent, it would be a start. But I would still have my doubts about some of the above.

 

[PaulThePat]

Bottom line is the Pats are unwatchable to all but the die hard supporters i.e. most of us on here. Nobody can possibly enjoy watching a team struggle to put up 13-16 points per week. I'd rather be 0-5 losing 38-30 every week than watching this pointless exercise. However, there is seemingly "a plan", so there you have it.

ps. this isn't all about the current set-up. We were equally unwatchable last season under BB.

 

[Thelonious]

I'm amazed that anyone can enjoy watching anything about this sh*t show. I feel especially bad for season tickets holders. Not that it will happen, but the team really should provide a rebate to compensate for (apparently) deliberately not fielding a competitive team.

Expecting fans to continue pay exorbitant major league prices to watch a minor league team "play" exhibition matches every week doesn't seem sustainable to me. TV viewership has to be down and I wonder what's happening with ticket sales.

I had hoped to enjoy this season by taking satisfaction in the team's progress in rebuilding itself. I have been pretty indifferent to how many wins we accomplish, since we are not going anywhere this year anyway, and every loss does, after all, give us a better draft position. At this point however, it doesn't seem the new leadership has even established a basis for progress. The roster is terrible. The offense and even at times the defense do not even provide a setting in which development and evaluation of that roster is possible. To this point, I see NO evidence the right management team is in place, from ownership on down, and in the case of the GM, I see plenty of evidence that that nepo-baby punk is hopelessly incompetent. I'll keep watching, because that is what I do out of long-established habit, but I ain't happy, and if I were not here in my dotage such a creature of habit, I'd say "**** this nonsense" and do something worthwhile with my Sunday afternoons.

 

[festy1986]

What are you talking about? There is no “delay” in a foot landing.

The rule is very simple. When your foot lands every piece that touches the ground must be in bounds.

You are grasping at straws. There is no rule that leads to that being a catch.

I'm not grasping. The rule states that if there is a delay between when your top of your foot or the back of your foot touches our of bounds AFTER it established inbound contact, it is a touchdown.

Polk toes touch down first. Then there is a delay before the bottom of his foot touches.

You are categorically wrong that the entire foot has to be inbound.

 

[1960Pats]

How on any planet is a toe not enough in the end zone. Give me a break if polk had landed on his back first to counts how stupid is that

You could tell by his reaction that Polk knew he had his foot inbounds. Apparently so did the ref.

It's funny when I think of it. For years now I've been complaining about the officiating in the NYFL and on Sunday a ref makes a tough call in a big situation, get's it right and then his call is overturned by some anonymous former Jet employee hiding behind the screen.

 

[1960Pats]

One home win in last 2 seasons.

That damn Mayo!

 

[1960Pats]

on the bright side, the Bills lost.

Things are falling pretty well for them. They're in a division with two teams without a QB and another with one who doesn't look like he's going to make it through the season (Captain Comeback my fat ass).

 

[Real fan 02]

I would argue that since the Patriots started 8 and 0 in 2019, they have had ONE good half season of football since. That was Mac Jones first half of his rookie season.

This offense has been dog **** going back to at least 2018.

This has been really hard to watch for over a half decade.

Agree. Right now it's at is worst. I get it's a new regime and all.. and maybe when maye starts when we are 1-11 we can see a ray of sunshine at the QB position. Right now this teams not worth watching sadly.

 

[Real fan 02]

I hope RK is a meddling Owner the Fans deserve better. We can't even beat a Team with a Third String QB it's that bad.

You see him high 5 someone in the owners booth yesterday? Then the call is overturned.. that moment if embarrassment should be enough to at least have a team meeting to ask what are we really doing here. We have our 3rd round pick here.. there is no reason to keep playing Brissett. The experiment is over!