Best Coach of All Time?

[Wozzy]

And then Belichick's hubris led him to think he could do something similar with any old quarterback. Belichick learned - the hard way - that Tom Brady was something special and that it was Brady who made Belichick, not vice-versa.

Brady left as a free agent.

You Bradystans can’t even get your facts right.

 

[signbabybrady]

Greatest coach I've seen in pro football is Bill Parcells. Forget the numbers and longevity stats. If I was starting a team from scratch and needed a head coach who I was sure would build a winning program, Parcells is my guy. He won everywhere he went and the number of hall of fame QBs he had was zero.

He couldn't win without BB

 

[Penn State Patriot]

He couldn't win without BB

I don’t know what this means. This somehow discredits him? Literally every coach mentioned in this thread benefited from a Hall of Fame QB except Parcells.

 

[lancerman]

Brady left as a free agent.

You Bradystans can’t even get your facts right.

You shouldn't be talking about getting facts right lol. Brady left because he couldn't stand Bill and because Bill was not remotely interested in giving him a good offer to stay.

Bill's behavior essentially turned it into a binary choice between Brady and Belichick.

Brady didn't just become a free agent and decide out of nowhere he wanted to leave the Patriots. He had a problem with the coach. He was only going to stay if Bill did something to fix that and make ammends or if Kraft stepped in and limited how Bill could deal with Brady on his behalf.

You love to ignore what Brady's issue with staying in New England was and acting like it was just some vacuum scenario of him hitting free agency. He didn't even leave for a better deal.

 

[sb1]

Fangirl much.

Brady will be the first to tell you what BB did for him, he actually teared up discussing it. Tom sat for a year and came back 15-20 pounds heavier and still wasn’t quite ready to start. Charlie Weis and Bill had to keep the restrictor plate on him after Drew got hurt and shepherd him along. You were probably 10 years old at that time, so your memory is foggy.

Cool so if Bill was this great developer of QBs why did he fail (spectacularly I might add and by much of his own doing) to develop any other QB most notably Mac Jones?

It was Brady himself who did more to develop himself than anyone else did.

Wrong. Most all the coach’s on this list have terrible seasons mixed in with their record, most of them coached a long time. This is one of those “I created a fact” type takes with no substance or facts behind it.

No other head coach has such a disparity and a significant sample size to measure both between their track record with and without their HOF all universe QB like Bill has sans Brady. And not just that…they were getting worse leading up to Bill being shown the door Results don’t lie.

 

[XLIX]

Brady left as a free agent.

That's right - because the stupid general manager, who also was the coach, didn't lock him up (despite the fact the Brady was begging him to). Belichick foolishly thought he could get similar performances out of anyone.

And now we're coming off a 4-13 season.

You Bradystans can’t even get your facts right.

You Belichick krishnas aren't living in the real world.

 

[signbabybrady]

You Belichick krishnas aren't living in the real world.

In the real world there are only 2 small factions of people who don't think Bill is the GOAT. Jealous fans of other teams that cling to cheating BS. And a small minority of Patriots fans who are pissed over X,Y, or Z and can't get over it.

 

[NFL Mystique]

Both Bill and Shula had elite QB's. So you can't say one coach had an advantage in that area.

I think the Patriots teams were more well rounded. Very rarely did they not have a great D. But that is because of Belichick.

6 SB wins in a cap era is tougher than winning two straight in the 70's.

Belichick is the winner here.

 

[Clonamery]

In the real world there are only 2 small factions of people who don't think Bill is the GOAT. Jealous fans of other teams that cling to cheating BS. And a small minority of Patriots fans who are pissed over X,Y, or Z and can't get over it.

No worries, they won't be invited to Canton like the rest of us.

 

[rkarp1]

the rings clinch it for Bill
best ever
he would also be chasing the all time wins record if he had not failed so in his last 5 years as GM.

 

[Patsgofor4]

The Walrus says hi.

I love Reid as a person (public persona at least) and he’s an outstanding coach but putting him at #1 is silly at this point. That is called anti-Bill bias and recency bias.

One thing that he has been able to do that Belichick seemingly has struggled to do in recent years is adapting to the the realities of the modern player while still being hard on his players and expecting a lot from them in terms of preparation. By all accounts, his training camps are some of the most physically demanding in the league.

Bill would probably say that Paul Brown is the GOAT.

 

[signbabybrady]

I love Reid as a person (public persona at least) and he’s an outstanding coach but putting him at #1 is silly at this point. That is called anti-Bill bias and recency bias.

One thing that he has been able to do that Belichick seemingly has struggled to do in recent years is adapting to the the realities of the modern player while still being hard on his players and expecting a lot from them in terms of preparation. By all accounts, his training camps are some of the most physically demanding in the league.

Bill would probably say that Paul Brown is the GOAT.

I mean he's still 3 SB wins behind Bill and Bill's beat him in a SB and an AFC Championship so the gap is still pretty big.

He does have a decent chance though as it doesn't seem like KC will be slowing down any time soon.

The more I digest KC winning again the more I've realized there aren't enough good teams in the league and I don't know who is going to stop them. I don't want to underestimate how hard getting 3 or 4 more will be but it doesn't seem as impossible as it did after SB53.

 

[PatsFan2]

I love Reid as a person (public persona at least) and he’s an outstanding coach but putting him at #1 is silly at this point. That is called anti-Bill bias and recency bias.

One thing that he has been able to do that Belichick seemingly has struggled to do in recent years is adapting to the the realities of the modern player while still being hard on his players and expecting a lot from them in terms of preparation. By all accounts, his training camps are some of the most physically demanding in the league.

Bill would probably say that Paul Brown is the GOAT.

And if he passes both BB and Shula as long as Mahomes breathes you'll probably still say he doesn't measure up yeah I get it.

 

[XLIX]

In the real world there are only 2 small factions of people who don't think Bill is the GOAT. Jealous fans of other teams that cling to cheating BS. And a small minority of Patriots fans who are pissed over X,Y, or Z and can't get over it.

The GOAT what? HC? Well, he's top 3. GM? That's what he sucks at.

Of course, as the past few years have proved, players are 100 times more important than coaches. Even one of the greatest coaches of all time barely stumbles to 4 wins when he doesn't have the players.

 

[sb1]

The GOAT what? HC? Well, he's top 3. GM? That's what he sucks at.

Team Bill thinks it's someone else's fault that the GM left the roster in the sorry state it was in last season. Lol

Of course, as the past few years have proved, players are 100 times more important than coaches. Even one of the greatest coaches of all time barely stumbles to 4 wins when he doesn't have the players.

He is on my top tier of coaches but honestly he was kinda lousy as a head coach too after Brady left. The Krafts had no choice but to show him the door. There's also a reason why he is unemployed right now.

 

[Wozzy]

You shouldn't be talking about getting facts right lol. Brady left because he couldn't stand Bill and because Bill was not remotely interested in giving him a good offer to stay.

Bill's behavior essentially turned it into a binary choice between Brady and Belichick.

Brady didn't just become a free agent and decide out of nowhere he wanted to leave the Patriots. He had a problem with the coach. He was only going to stay if Bill did something to fix that and make ammends or if Kraft stepped in and limited how Bill could deal with Brady on his behalf.

You love to ignore what Brady's issue with staying in New England was and acting like it was just some vacuum scenario of him hitting free agency. He didn't even leave for a better deal.

This reads like teenage girl fan fiction.

 

[Wozzy]

Cool so if Bill was this great developer of QBs why did he fail (spectacularly I might add and by much of his own doing) to develop any other QB most notably Mac Jones?

It was Brady himself who did more to develop himself than anyone else did.

Brady was a great prospect who joined the perfect coaching staff and team. He then went on to have consistently the best teams around him for the next two decades.



You think football is the result of one magical position, the QB... which is hilariously misguided fanboy nonsense. You need great QB play for sure, but Don Shula had that for almost a decade and a half with Marino and never won a ring. Then Jimmy Johnson took over the Dolphins and took a decrepit old Marino further in the playoffs than he'd been in years. John Elway could never win a ring until he met Shanahan. It's a team game, it takes a team and that involves coaching. This isn't singles tennis.

No other head coach has such a disparity and a significant sample size to measure both between their track record with and without their HOF all universe QB like Bill has sans Brady. And not just that…they were getting worse leading up to Bill being shown the door Results don’t lie.

Provide some data to backup this fictional bullsht, otherwise stop pretending it's fact.

You're one of the biggest BB haters on this site, we're supposed to believe your agenda driven nonsense? Laughable...

 

[Wozzy]

That's right - because the stupid general manager, who also was the coach, didn't lock him up (despite the fact the Brady was begging him to). Belichick foolishly thought he could get similar performances out of anyone.

And now we're coming off a 4-13 season.

You Belichick krishnas aren't living in the real world.

Players sign contracts that they have to read and agree to... they're not slaves and nobody holds a gun to their head. At any point Brady could have held out, could have refused to report... we see players do it all the time.

Tom's wife wanted to live in Florida, the Patriots with or without Tom had to eat their cap debt and rebuild for a season, why would a 43 year old QB want to spend a year on a crap team and rebuild when he could go to Tampa, play with the best weapons in the NFL and make max dollars?

He was a free agent, he pushed to become a free agent, he chose to leave. Get over it...

 

[sb1]

Brady was a great prospect who joined the perfect coaching staff and team. He then went on to have consistently the best teams around him for the next two decades.

As I explained to you before that graph doesn't mean anything unless every team in the league plays the same teams every year. Points per game is based on schedule and no teams have the same schedule so it's apples and oranges.

You think football is the result of one magical position, the QB... which is hilariously misguided fanboy nonsense. You need great QB play for sure, but Don Shula had that for almost a decade and a half with Marino and never won a ring. Then Jimmy Johnson took over the Dolphins and took a decrepit old Marino further in the playoffs than he'd been in years. John Elway could never win a ring until he met Shanahan. It's a team game, it takes a team and that involves coaching. This isn't singles tennis.

Sure and Peyton Manning took a career .300 coach in college to a Super Bowl. Ditto for Rich Gannon and Bill Callahan. Brady got Bruce Arians a Super Bowl win. Troy Aikman did the same for Barry Switzer. Ditto Rodgers with McCarthy. Great coaches can't elevate a team to more than what they are but great QB's can.

Provide some data to backup this fictional bullsht, otherwise stop pretending it's fact.

Sure.
Belichick with Brady: 174 games above .500 (.769)
Belichick sans Brady, including the Cleveland era: 21 games under .500 (.449). 1 playoff win in 2 tries. 3 missed playoffs in 4 seasons since Brady left.

That's over a .300 win percentage difference without his all world QB. That's like an 11-5 regular season turning into 5-11. It's not a small drop.
It's not a great team turning mediocre, it's a great team turning bad and getting worse every year.

Numbers don't lie. No other coach fell off the cliff like this without their HOF QB.

Does this mean Belichick sucks and really isn't one of the greats? No but it does mean great players matter a lot more than coaches and Brady deserves far more credit for the dynasty than Team Bill wants to admit.

You're one of the biggest BB haters on this site, we're supposed to believe your agenda driven nonsense? Laughable...

"Biggest BB haters"

 

[Wozzy]

As I explained to you before that graph doesn't mean anything unless every team in the league plays the same teams every year. Points per game is based on schedule and no teams have the same schedule so it's apples and oranges.

Facts don’t care about your feelings.

If schedule is why the defense looked better it’s also why Brady looked better. I don’t believe this sht, because that’s what it is.

The AFC East was one of the toughest divisions in football for the first decade of the dynasty. Afterwards great coaches didn’t want to go there. They still played the NFC and teams from other divisions. The notion that schedule is why the Pats had consistently great teams for two decades is garbage.

The notion that Brady is why they had consistently great defense, OLines, weapons and special teams is bigger garbage. He gave them consistently great QB play starting in 2003 and going forward… that’s it.

Sure and Peyton Manning took a career .300 coach in college to a Super Bowl. Ditto for Rich Gannon and Bill Callahan. Brady got Bruce Arians a Super Bowl win. Troy Aikman did the same for Barry Switzer. Ditto Rodgers with McCarthy. Great coaches can't elevate a team to more than what they are but great QB's can.

Manning won 3 games his rookie year and led the NFL in interceptions… but he played, Brady sat. Nobody is arguing Jim Mora is the best coach in history because Bill’s record reflects that and Jim’s doesn’t. Everything else you wrote is word salad nonsense. Jim Mora got fired because he couldn’t field a good defense and they hired Dungy… a defensive coach. Mora went 32-32 with Manning… laughable.

Sure.
Belichick with Brady: 174 games above .500 (.769)
Belichick sans Brady, including the Cleveland era: 21 games under .500 (.449). 1 playoff win in 2 tries. 3 missed playoffs in 4 seasons since Brady left.

That's over a .300 win percentage difference without his all world QB. That's like an 11-5 regular turning into 5-11. It's not a small drop.
And no other coach compares. Yes Bill didn't have good players anymore so maybe he should have been a better GM and picked better players.

Numbers don't lie. No other coach fell off the cliff like this without their HOF QB.

Does this mean Belichick sucks and really isn't one of the greats? No but it does mean great players matter a lot more than coaches.

"Biggest BB haters"

BB has the most playoff wins in history and most Super Bowls in the modern age and that chaps your azz… being a hater and all.