Nice bit from Nagy on Patriots WRs Polk & Baker

[Captain Cliche]

People forget that Thornton was getting open. That the biggest issue with the Offense has been that the QB didn't have time to look for certain passes. The other issue is that they weren't having Thornton run the routes he's successful with. How many times did we see Thornton running Slants or deep ins? Plays where he'd be hit in stride so he could keep going.

Mac Jones was horrible at hitting guys in stride. Part of that was the O-line but part of it was Jones.

I'm hoping that with Bourne and Osborn and 4 guys under 25, that this WR group can shine.

This.
Every once in a while Mac would hit a guy in stride downfield for 12 or 15 yards and I'm thinking "There you go!" and it wouldn't happen again for the rest of the series. This is something Brady would do every other down...we were so spoiled!

 

[Real fan 02]

This.
Every once in a while Mac would hit a guy in stride downfield for 12 or 15 yards and I'm thinking "There you go!" and it wouldn't happen again for the rest of the series. This is something Brady would do every other down...we were so spoiled!

Agree. What I'm realizing in hindsight was that in today's game the QB needs to have the ability to make others better. Unfortunately we came to realize the Bailey Jones connection couldn't.

Very high on polk and baker. Hopefully they can grow with Drake.

 

[DaBruinz]

I always felt bad for Malcolm Mitchell. He made plays and helped us win a SB. He could have been a real asset to the offense for a number of years if his knee hadn't been toast. But, he did shine in his limited career.

I've always wondered if they could have done a knee replacement so he could still continue playing.

 

[Kdo5]

I hate to reopen old wounds but....if Malcolm's knee doesn't betray him and he continued to develop- does Brady maybe never leave and we win #7?

Brady didn’t leave because of receivers. He was frustrated with them toward the end but there were far bigger issues related to Belichick and the contract.

 

[JohnJH]

I've always wondered if they could have done a knee replacement so he could still continue playing.

Good question. I had an ankle joint replacement done a few years ago by the now retired Dr. Robert Anderson (who was the foot specialist for the Packers, and the Panthers before that. He was from WI and moved back here to finish out the last few years of his career and mentor an orthopedic surgeon who wanted to be a foot specialist and is the son of my shoulder specialist), he's the one that Pro-Athlete's would go to for a 2nd or 3rd opinion after their team's foot specialist gave their diagnosis, because he was one of the top 3 on the planet when it came to the foot. Cam Newton visited him when he came to the Patriots just before he did my surgery, when I mentioned it to him, he just smiled as he couldn't say per patient confidentiality (but it was reported by multiple news outlets). I don't know the extent of the damage to Mitchell's knee, so I don't know if even a knee replacement would have allowed him to continue to play. He may very well have had one done just to live a normal non-football life.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

Agreed. Alot of that too is we were drafting guys with injury concerns and somehow hoping they get healthier... Mitchell, Brandon tate to name a few

After Gronk worked out the the team took too many chances on players with injury histories. Easley and Dowling are the poster children for gambling with high draft picks.

 

[Real fan 02]

After Gronk worked out the the team took too many chances on players with injury histories. Easley and Dowling are the poster children for gambling with high draft picks.

Yes your absolutely right. I think I saw Dowling pro play in 1 game for the team.

I don't understand what the thinking was during that time frame.

 

[jimnance]

So, someone posts an optimistic tidbit about the Patriots' WR draft and it devolves into an argument about Brady leaving. Staggering capability to turn lemonade into lemons.

Gotta keep it real

 

[BTTA]

Yes your absolutely right. I think I saw Dowling pro play in 1 game for the team.

I don't understand what the thinking was during that time frame.

Dowling ended up having an average career for an NFL CB.

 

[JPPT1974]

Well need in being real. Plus making sure these players will be 100% on the field come the NFL season!

 

[Water Boy]

I always felt bad for Malcolm Mitchell. He made plays and helped us win a SB. He could have been a real asset to the offense for a number of years if his knee hadn't been toast. But, he did shine in his limited career.

Plus he learned how to read.

 

[Water Boy]

This was from the thing I wrote this morning, with some bits from the most recent Next Pats Podcast by Phil Perry, who had Jim Nagy on there to talk about the 2024 Patriots draft picks.

Nagy gave some good insight on Polk, but more importantly pointed out that the team actually targeted guys who could get open, which is a change from the type of guys they've drafted in the past:

---
One of the more interesting comments came with Nagy talking about the selections of both Ja’Lynn Polk and Javon Baker, who he said are quite different than the guys New England has looked at previously when it comes to the receiver position.

He believes they hit on two guys who can open up their offense, which is an improvement from the type of players they had targeted in the past.

“I think they drafted two guys that can separate,” said Nagy. “I’ve said this before, I think Polk and Baker can both separate, and they haven’t been drafting separators up there for a while. It’s been a while since they’ve drafted guys that can get open, and I think both these guys can and they both have great ball skills.”

Nagy also noted that when it came to Polk, he was a player who was quietly rated highly by quite a few teams around the league, and he feels that Polk flew under the radar a bit behind Washington teammate Rome Odunze. Odunze was a higher-rated prospect and ended up being taken 9th overall by the Bears.

However, Nagy believes the Patriots got good value for him, and he feels Polk likely wouldn’t have been around much longer from where he was selected (Round 2, 37th overall by the Patriots).

“We did a lot of work on Polk too, and I think that he was a guy that the league was much higher than the media,” said Nagy. “I think maybe the media kind of lost him in the Rome Odunze talk and everything, I don’t know. But Polk was a guy that a lot of teams were high on. They probably had to take Polk there where they took him.”
--
Sort of hoping that should these guys pan out, it starts to open things up in terms of at least feeling more optimistic about them continuing to add to that position in the future.

In the past, save most recently for maybe Malcolm Mitchell - who helped them win a ring but only lasted that season - it felt like the best hope was from late-round longshots who may/may not have made the team or had an impact. Now, it might end up being a position we can feel good about them targeting earlier if necessary and potentially finding an impact player, which is something that obviously never happened previously.

 

[Vindicate]

I always felt bad for Malcolm Mitchell. He made plays and helped us win a SB. He could have been a real asset to the offense for a number of years if his knee hadn't been toast. But, he did shine in his limited career.

No need to feel bad, he is involved in many literacy building programs, and he's very proud of his writing. He has said he's more proud of his involvement with those things than even winning the SB.

He seems very happy.

 

[n1997y]

I've always wondered if they could have done a knee replacement so he could still continue playing.

Good question. I had an ankle joint replacement done a few years ago by the now retired Dr. Robert Anderson (who was the foot specialist for the Packers, and the Panthers before that. He was from WI and moved back here to finish out the last few years of his career and mentor an orthopedic surgeon who wanted to be a foot specialist and is the son of my shoulder specialist), he's the one that Pro-Athlete's would go to for a 2nd or 3rd opinion after their team's foot specialist gave their diagnosis, because he was one of the top 3 on the planet when it came to the foot. Cam Newton visited him when he came to the Patriots just before he did my surgery, when I mentioned it to him, he just smiled as he couldn't say per patient confidentiality (but it was reported by multiple news outlets). I don't know the extent of the damage to Mitchell's knee, so I don't know if even a knee replacement would have allowed him to continue to play. He may very well have had one done just to live a normal non-football life.

I doubt it. I’ve had both knees replaced. Rehabbed by a physical therapist who works with pro athletes (Steph Curry, Jeff Halpern, Chris Paul). I got good repairs, fully functional after rehab. Orthopedic surgeon cleared me for downhill skiing last winter (I did not get the chance to put it to the test), but told me no snowboarding because too much twisting. I think it would be possible to get a replaced knee healthy enough to get through training camp; I do not think it would survive game speed contact.

 

[Real fan 02]

Dowling ended up having an average career for an NFL CB.

I can't remember much about his career post NE.

 

[Fuzz]

I can't remember much about his career post NE.

That’s because he only made one other roster and made 1 tackle (with Oakland in 2014).

 

[JohnJH]

I doubt it. I’ve had both knees replaced. Rehabbed by a physical therapist who works with pro athletes (Steph Curry, Jeff Halpern, Chris Paul). I got good repairs, fully functional after rehab. Orthopedic surgeon cleared me for downhill skiing last winter (I did not get the chance to put it to the test), but told me no snowboarding because too much twisting. I think it would be possible to get a replaced knee healthy enough to get through training camp; I do not think it would survive game speed contact.

Yep. I'm just able to have full range of motion for walking now and everyday basic task's, which is all that I require (and I was able to get back to playing the drums).

 

[DaBruinz]

I doubt it. I’ve had both knees replaced. Rehabbed by a physical therapist who works with pro athletes (Steph Curry, Jeff Halpern, Chris Paul). I got good repairs, fully functional after rehab. Orthopedic surgeon cleared me for downhill skiing last winter (I did not get the chance to put it to the test), but told me no snowboarding because too much twisting. I think it would be possible to get a replaced knee healthy enough to get through training camp; I do not think it would survive game speed contact.

Good Info.

I know that after I had my ACL done, they told me that any skiing I'd have to modify the brace and ski boot so that they were connected. SnowBoarding wasn't really a thing.. Though I liked skiing, I never did it.. I DID go back to being a goalie in Ice hockey.. And gradually didn't need the brace anymore.. Only thing that has stopped me from playing the last 4 years was my back.. Which is finally good.

 

[TinhWoodhead]

Brady didn’t leave because of receivers. He was frustrated with them toward the end but there were far bigger issues related to Belichick and the contract.

bet its mostly contract. “ you can’t even give me 2 years?”

 

[Huckleberry1]

Maybe, but there where 2 OTHER reasons that we're infinitely more important to Brady's leaving.

First Brady knew that he didn't want to spend his last few years with a depleted roster in rebuild mode. They had just gone to 3 super bowls in a row, and put themselves in cap hell after going all in front 16 to 19. There simply wasn't any cap space to pay Brady without mortgaging the needed rebuild. Remember we were up against the cap in 20 and was only paying Cam $1MM that year.

Two, both Brady AND his wife wanted to be in warmer climes. They had put up their house for sale BEFORE the '19 season was over.

Tampa had the best offensive weapons and the cap room to offer a 42 year old QB $50M on a 2 yr. deal

His rift with BB was real and a factor in the decision., but NOT the major one. My contention is that Brady was NEVER resigning here in '20 and he would have been crazy too do so.

Like he post Ken, but I disagree on the primary reason. I agree that there were other reasons, but imo the primary reason Brady left was that he couldn’t take playing for Belichick any more. Belichick is the GOAT coach, but he’s also a really miserable SOB to play for, and Brady was sick to death of dealing with that.