THE OL REBUILD - IS STRANGE HEALTHY?

[Hugepatsfan]

Most seem to have come to the acceptance/realization that this is probably going to be a bridge year. So the important thing in a bridge year is where you find yourselves after it.

You need guys playing positions they're meant for in a scheme they're meant to play in. You need that in 5 spots at the same time. So, IMO, this is what I think we should build towards throughout this year to have in place for the start of next year...

LT: Let Okorafor and Anderson battle it out. Neither are a long term answer, but hopefully they can just be "bad" rather than "offense-crippling bad". Can try Wallace here but that seems an overly optimistic projection. Even if he can play here passably, feels like RT is where he will be an actual asset to you if he is one.

RT: Like I mentioned, Wallace seems best fit in this spot. There's definitely some intriguing stuff to like about him at this spot. Onwenu is passable here but shouldn't be viewed as an ideal long term solution.

RG: Move Onwenu back to the position he's great at. It makes sense to use him at the more important RT position while the depth chart is bare, but if Wallace develops in practice and in spot playing time as someone worth giving the reigns to at RT then make the permanent switch for Onwenu.

LG: Sidy Sow flashed some decent play at RG last year but this is his college position and and he fits well in a gap/power scheme like everyone else I mentioned. Strange just doesn't fit that. Can't sacrifice the overall line to try and save the sunk cost of a bad pick.

C: I expect this to be David Andrews last year. Jake Andrews is behind him and looked ok at LG late last year. Hopefully that could translate to Center. Maybe Strange tries his hand at this spot, if they don't just cut bait after displacing him at LG.

Mafi and Robinson from this year can be interior depth. Maybe battle out for one spot.

Wallace and Jake Andrews should get enough depth playing time this year to have a sense of if you feel ok going into next year with them starting at C and RT. Onwenu is obviously a high end RG. Sow in year 1 was passable at RG so you'd hope the same for him at his college position of LG. Next year you pour your efforts once again into finding a LT.

Most likely we'll be picking high again next year. And now that we have the QB position filled with a long-term prospect, you have more flexibility with the top pick. Another year of high cap space and hopefully solidifying the roster with more re-signings and (ideally) a few young guys emerging like Jennings and Barmore did last year (two different scales obviously) should put you in better position to pick your spots in free agency too if you like someone.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

I have it on good authority that strange can be healthy...

 

[203Pat]

Against a 3X All Pro and 6X Pro Bowler as a rookie... Laughable

And here he is getting beat like a drum over and over.






The defending of Cole Strange on this board is solely because he was a first round pick. When he actually plays he's an average guard and now is coming off what apparently is a major injury. They have now drafted 4 interior offensive linemen in their first 150 picks in the last two drafts so it is reasonable to assume they don't think he's necessary going to be around long term.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

I’ve seen enough to know he struggles against the elite DTs. I think Sow has more upside at his natural LG going manoamano with the Quinnen Williamses.

It's almost like he excelled against inferior competition. I guess that's what you get when you draft a Div. 3 guard in the first round! I believe this pick was the final straw in the BB camel. As I said at the time, even if he ended up being the next John Hannah, it was an afwul pick. Now that time has shown he is exactly what we thought he was, his time in the NFL is almost over.

 

[dliverey44]

Lots of hate for Mafi here, who was a 5th round draft pick last year and was forced to play b/c of injuries to other guys.

So much for all the talk about draft and develop.

A team can claim to be a draft and develop, but they can also realize that a player is not worth the time. Not saying Mafi fall in that boat, just saying both things can be true especially later in the draft. Also remember that we really have not had OL coaching for 2 years

 

[mgteich]

My current projection based on the roster makeup:

CENTER:
David Andrews (starter)
Jake Andrews

GUARD:
Cole Strange* (starts out on PUP)
Sidy Sow (starter, LG)
Nick Leverett (starter, RG)
Layden Robinson

TACKLE:
Chukwuma Okorafor (starter, LT)
Michael Onwenu (starter, RT)
Calvin Anderson (swing tackle)
Caeden Wallace
Vederian Lowe

Perhaps Mafi sticks, and perhaps McDermott keeps a job over Lowe, but this is how I see it looking right now.

The goal would be to develop Robinson and Wallace to start the year and let them take starting jobs if/once they prove themselves. If Robinson outplays Leverett at some point then start him at RG. When Strange gets back, play the better of him/Sow at LG. If Wallace adapts well to LT and outplays Okorafor eventually then let him start at that time.

Several of these vets are on 1 year deals (Okorafor, Leverett) or expiring deals (D. Andrews, Anderson) so you can see why some of these picks make a little more sense with an eye towards 2025.

I'm almost there with this analysis.
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I think that we carry 9-10 on the 53 man squad

CENTER (2)
1) I would note that Leverett is backup center, as is Jordan

GUARD (3-4)
2) I'm confused. I think that Leverett has always been a LG and C.
3) I think that Robinson is a RG only. I suspect that we expect him to be the long-term starter.
4) I'm fine with Sow at either OG spot.
5) We should keep 4 OG's, with either Mafi or Jordan making the roster until Strange is ready. I suppose it's OK for both to be on the Practice Squad.
6) The open question whether Strange is a starter when he comes back. I suspect that best it to keep Sow at RG, with Robinson as the backup.

TACKLE (4)
7) I would definitely not carry Lowe as a 5th OT. I expect us to re-sign either Anderson or Okorafor in 2025 to ply with Wallace an the new addition. We won't have any trouble in getting someone better than Lowe if we don't want re-sign either.








GUARD
2) I see Leverett as a LG and backup center, where he has played in the past (expect (as you do) him to beat out Jordan and Mafi

3) I'm fine with Sow moving to LG, but I'm also OK with him staying at RG,with Leveret being the LG

 

[Scotty]

I appreciate it is only snap shots but I did not realise that Strange was that bad based on the highlights above. Some work needed there.

 

[Spiral]

Strange is looking like another first-round draft pick who doesn't get his 5th year option picked up.

 

[Kasmir]

Wynn absolutely should be in the conversation. He offered nothing to the team in 2018. Went on IR for 4 straight years. Was bad when he played.

Wynn starts at LG for the Dolphins on an excellent OL.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

If one knee injury makes a player injury prone, then many of the greatest players in history were injury prone. Just silly...

Very true but he is what he is... A first round bust who won't get a second contract from his drafted team

 

[mgteich]

Very true but he is what he is... A first round bust who won't get a second contract from his drafted team

Apparently, he needed better coaching, perhaps coaches who didn't think that he was a RT.

Many posters hear SCREAMED that Wynn should have been OK as a LG.

What you are pointing out is NOT a failure of Wynn in his 2nd contract. He is succeeding. The failure was in the team that drafted him and couldn't see his value as a LG.

 

[Uptown]

 

[Uptown]

 

[Uptown]

.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Apparently, he needed better coaching, perhaps coaches who didn't think that he was a RT.

Many posters hear SCREAMED that Wynn should have been OK as a LG.

What you are pointing out is NOT a failure of Wynn in his 2nd contract. He is succeeding. The failure was in the team that drafted him and couldn't see his value as a LG.

A lot of failed tackles look better at guard where you don't need to be as athletic and have less responsibilities, ie you're not facing the opposing team's best edge players on every down.

That didn't make Wynn a good pick, that means they should have picked him in the late 2nd or 3rd round as a left guard instead of the 1st as an LT. It's another failed talent evaluation just like taking Strange in the 1st when he should have been a late 2nd or 3rd round pick because he's a mediocre guard at best even when he's healthy.

 

[mgteich]

A lot of failed tackles look better at guard where you don't need to be as athletic and have less responsibilities, ie you're not facing the opposing team's best edge players on every down.

That didn't make Wynn a good pick, that means they should have picked him in the late 2nd or 3rd round as a left guard instead of the 1st as an LT. It's another failed talent evaluation just like taking Strange in the 1st when he should have been a late 2nd or 3rd round pick because he's a mediocre guard at best even when he's healthy.

Yes, Wynne was drafted too high.

Yes, he should have been drafted in the 2nd or 3rd as a LG.
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So, how does that explaining/excuse the poor evaluations by the coaches. They NEVER were able to figure out that Wynn was an OK LG, perhaps at the quality level of a player from Round 3 level of the draft.

A Round 3 quality LG is a valuable player on the team. To continue to consider him a LT, and then a RT was a coaching failure and forced us to find another LG (and another).

 

[VJCPatriot]

Yes, Wynne was drafted too high.

Yes, he should have been drafted in the 2nd or 3rd as a LG.
==========
So, how does that explaining/excuse the poor evaluations by the coaches. They NEVER were able to figure out that Wynn was an OK LG, perhaps at the quality level of a player from Round 3 level of the draft.

A Round 3 quality LG is a valuable player on the team. To continue to consider him a LT, and then a RT was a coaching failure and forced us to find another LG (and another).

Agreed. The OL coaching has been a severe FAIL ever since coach Dante retired. Hopefully Scott Peters can change that trend.

A great coach can 'coach up' even middling talent to reach their ceilings while a poor coach is bad at developing and molding the players put in front of him.

 

[goheels22002]

OK so I’m over the disappointment about them not drafting who I thought they should take at OT, and about spending a high 4th on a RG only. Sorry @Wozzy I generally agree with your takes or at least see where you’re coming from but I’m going to give the new coaching staff the benefit of the doubt. They spent a high 3rd on Wallace which I take to mean they think he can compete for LT1 this year and a high 4th on Robinson which tells me they think he can compete with Mafi, Leverett, and Sow for RG1 this season.

I like what I saw of Sow last season and think he is already right there with a healthy Strange for LG1. If Strange is healthy at the beginning of the season I expect him to start but expect to see a lot of Sow at guard on either side. Regarding Mafi, I think he has a ways to go to be a starter at OG but he’s in his first offseason in the NFL with a ton more experience than I think anyone would have expected, and if you look at his progression through college and last year it has been in the right direction. I’m not all thst optimistic but I will say that I’ve seen more to like about Mafi than I ever did about Chasen Hines or, obviously, James Ferentz.

I’m in the camp thst looks at Strange as a good candidate for the center position. Regarding Jake Andrews, I have no opinion yet, but the fact that in a good class of centers they didn’t pick one is also a sign that they’re comfortable with him.

They are in good shape IMHO regarding the IOL.

The Offensive Line appears to have depth, versatility and a decent mix of experience and youth. My focus is going to be on OC Scott Peters and how quickly he can get these guys playing as a unit. I hope the Patriots go with Brissette until they are confident the line can give Maye time to go through progressions. At Carolina he was fairly quick to run the ball. While he's a durable, tough kid, he's going to take hits like never before at this level.

Peters has really big shoes to fill in Dante Scarnecchia's and little, teeny, tiny slippers to fill in Matt Patricia's who was a ruinous OL coach. Peters has a solid NFL player pedigree but is making the leap from Assistant Line Coach to his first OL Coach job. Peters is fortunate to have a leader in David Andrews to help him.

Wallace, Robinson, Strange, Sow, Mafi, Jake Andrews, and Stueber is a pretty deep group of unproven players. Sidy Sow and Mafi have their hands full securing starting jobs. Competition up front is a good thing given the last couple of years of awful pass protection.

It's funny to think that Mike Onwenu is a gray beard on this line at 27 with six years' experience. On a couple of levels, it looks good to have a relatively injury-free group of guys in camp, except for Strange. I'm not sure that Strange even makes this team. I wouldn't be surprised if he's an early trade or cut so he can find a spot elsewhere.

More questions than answers right now. The OL remains the greatest weakness on offense. I'm hopeful it turns into a strength.

 

[Toofy]

And you want to know why KC is winning.

They traded with us and got trent mcduffie whom everyone wanted.

And after we reached for strange at 29 , you know who was taken at 30 by OC , karlaftis who has 16.5 sacks.

This year kc trades before us and takes xavier worthy and with 64th pick suamateia.

I think we are not really doing the valuations properly and failing to trade up when need be.

I feel we just messed the quality aspect by going for quantity. Get quantity from UDFA not draft . We should have packaged the 3rd and 4th and got one tackle.

Looks like we got too many redundant players - we got a RT when we signed onwenu to a monster RT and a 4th round guard when we already have 2-3 guards.

I was reading van pelt schemes and looks like he runs more of power runs and not the quick screens or quick zone runs . If that's the case mafi is a better fit than strange is what I am hearing.

Looks like strange might be traded for a bag of peanuts.

 

[Toofy]

35% play action for Joe flacco

Lots of runs is what I read. Is strange a good fit for what van pelt plans to do ? Looks like we need beefier OL and if that's the case strange is a misfit.

Just looked at 2022 draft and if strange is also moved, we just have Marcus jones in the team who is more a gadget player at this point of time. 2022 is a huge bust of draft similar to 2019.

I would be fine if they move Marcus to offense 30% and defense 30% and no ST.