Tom Curran speculates on if Mac Jones will get Downgraded to third string

[Pape]

It's a cop out to say the problem is the QB and he needs "perfect" when we can't even give him competent. If you take the reasonable approach and realize the whole team is flawed, then it's an orginizational failure. If you want to go to Mac Jones directly, then the Patriots did what every single team that ruins a new QB has done over the years if not on the bad end and it's still an organizational failure.

No, its not a cop out.

Its what Mac would require to succeed.

 

[Tunescribe]

Yup. This is a message board where people post opinions. "Conjecture-based opinions" are the same as "opinions" but you want to be flowery and dramatic with your response as always. Same old Tunes. Too funny. Haha.

I don't get the "flowery and dramatic" thing, but laugh all you want. At least unlike you I presented it as conjecture and not fact.

 

[lancerman]

This offense should be better than last year. But it isn't. This offense has and honest to god coordinator and we cant do ****.

I was beating the drum to keep Meyers in New England longer than most. I know what we are missing. I also know that the majority of his production was replaced by bourne.

What has failed this year is Mac Jones decision making process. He is mentally weak. He is not making the appropriate protection adjustments because he is incapable of parsing a defense pre-snap. He has also shown, or more accurately no shown any type of leadership. Ever since the league got enough tape on him - all the way back to 2021 - hes been on the decline.

Pressure Mac Jones and he folds like a cheap suit.

He sucks. He has not grown as a player by any metric. He has not gotten better. He has not improved. The same guy you saw in year 1 is the same guy you see now. No, strike that. He has, in fact, gotten worse. Thats on him. No one else.

No it really shouldn't be better. Meyers was the best WR on the team. He is gone. Harris was one of the top two RB's. He is gone. The other RB in Stevenson has been a huge downgrade. The replacement WR in Juju has been a huge downgrade. The offensive line is at the bottom of the league. You want to see what an extremely bad offensive line does to a great QB, look at Patrick Mahomes in Super Bowl 55. Dude fought like a hero and still had the worst game of his career and got trounced badly AND he actually had great players to pass to.

There was absolutely zero reason to think this offense was going to better than last year unless you bought into the hype of BOB being some magic fix all. BOB maybe can run a good offense when prime Brady, Gronk, Welker, Hernandez, Ridley, Green Ellis, Vereen, Woodhead, Mankins, Vollmer, Light, Solder, Cannon and Connoly on it. But this ain't it and it never was.

Yeah Mac has not developed. That's on the team though. This fanbase used to mock the Jets for years for doing similar to their QB's. And this about as bad as I've ever seen the Jets do it. People just want a conveniant excuse because they can't blame the organization because then they have to face the depths of the problems.

And that's just the offense. Let's be real, the special teams is near the botom of the league right now and the defense despite a decent game against a crap Colts team has routinely been bottom third. It's a total failure across the board.

Yes the QB is near the bottom of the league. The offensive line is in fact worse by virtually every metric. This is one of the bottom tier WR sets in terms of production and separation. The RB's are near the bottom of the league in terms of production. Aside from run stopping the defense is sub 20th ranked in virtually every stat. The special teams has consistently been hovering between worst and bottom three since the start of the year. It's just insane to look at all that and blame the QB.

As far as development, you can look at how every great QB ended up developing. The Patriots simply have not done that for their QB. It's not a surprise what the result was. It's easier to blame one guy over the whole organization.

 

[PatsFan2]

The Chiefs had no clue that Mahomes would be this good.

You mean Great.

 

[lancerman]

No, its not a cop out.

Its what Mac would require to succeed.

No it is. Show me that Mac can't succeed with just league average and maybe I would take that at face value. But he has near the worst in the league on multiple categories on his offense and he's being accused of needing perfection. He went to the playoffs with a mid offense. We should have built on that and made it better. Over the next two years we made that offense worse and got suprised the results went the same way.

It doesn't matter anymore because he's broken beyond repair (at least on this team) at this point. But you are on crack if you think another young QB was getting better results in the same situation.

 

[patsinthesnow]

The pats will be starting a 3rd string qb in grier or zappe surrounded by arguably the worst receiving group the NFL. 4-13 or worse should be a lock with a real chance at a top 3 pick.

 

[RIpats88]

BoB hasn't done any better than Patricia. But he should be.

That doesn't mean Patricia was good and BoB bad. Different situations, rosters and strength of schedule.

Even the most optimistic has this pegged as a 6-8 win team this year given the schedule and the lack of improvement bill made to the roster.

Not everything is an either or

 

[Pape]

No it really shouldn't be better. Meyers was the best WR on the team. He is gone. Harris was one of the top two RB's. He is gone. The other RB in Stevenson has been a huge downgrade. The replacement WR in Juju has been a huge downgrade. The offensive line is at the bottom of the league. You want to see what an extremely bad offensive line does to a great QB, look at Patrick Mahomes in Super Bowl 55. Dude fought like a hero and still had the worst game of his career and got trounced badly AND he actually had great players to pass to.

There was absolutely zero reason to think this offense was going to better than last year unless you bought into the hype of BOB being some magic fix all. BOB maybe can run a good offense when prime Brady, Gronk, Welker, Hernandez, Ridley, Green Ellis, Vereen, Woodhead, Mankins, Vollmer, Light, Solder, Cannon and Connoly on it. But this ain't it and it never was.

Yeah Mac has not developed. That's on the team though. This fanbase used to mock the Jets for years for doing similar to their QB's. And this about as bad as I've ever seen the Jets do it. People just want a conveniant excuse because they can't blame the organization because then they have to face the depths of the problems.

And that's just the offense. Let's be real, the special teams is near the botom of the league right now and the defense despite a decent game against a crap Colts team has routinely been bottom third. It's a total failure across the board.

Yes the QB is near the bottom of the league. The offensive line is in fact worse by virtually every metric. This is one of the bottom tier WR sets in terms of production and separation. The RB's are near the bottom of the league in terms of production. Aside from run stopping the defense is sub 20th ranked in virtually every stat. The special teams has consistently been hovering between worst and bottom three since the start of the year. It's just insane to look at all that and blame the QB.

As far as development, you can look at how every great QB ended up developing. The Patriots simply have not done that for their QB. It's not a surprise what the result was. It's easier to blame one guy over the whole organization.

I've said enough about the offense and Mac Jones. I don't feel the need to keep repeating myself.

And yes, there is a high degree of failure on BBs part that plays a huge role in all of this. But it's Macs job to make himself a better player, and that is his ultimate failure as a player.

As for special teams, that is a whole other topic worthy of its own discussion. Start a thread.

 

[RIpats88]

The pats will be starting a 3rd string qb in grier or zappe surrounded by arguably the worst receiving group the NFL. 4-13 or worse should be a lock with a real chance at a top 3 pick.

Shhh can't say that. Mac Jones defender!!!

According to some here the roster is perfect and just a QB change will fix all the problems. There's no way the QB can be playing poorly and the roster being poorly constructed at the same time.

 

[RIpats88]

Let me start out by saying I'm out on Mac Jones. I'm sure that won't stop others from calling me a Mac defender.

But to put it simply why aren't we allowed to also look at how we got to this point and critique Bills roster/coaching hire decisions?

It's like if you dare point out Bill handled Mac poorly (irrespective of how he poorly handled the situation) means you are a diehard Mac lover. Or if you point out how the team lacks talent at receiver or OL it's the same! Mac defender!

If Bill put together amazing rosters with talent all over, hired the best OC he could in year 2. I would be comfortable with saying. He was put in the perfect situation and failed.

Now how he handled the situation is fair to be questioned. And ultimately he is responsible for how he is now.

But if you don't fix your mistakes or acknowledge how they handled having a rookie you are doomed to repeat them.

We WILL draft a new QB this summer. but is anyone comfortable with throwing them in the same situation and feel confident that is the best way to develop a young QB?

I certainly don't want a rookie QB given parker/juju a pourous OL and a DC who has never coached offense teaching them.

Or in 3 years we will be in the same spot. Absolving bill of all blame drafting another prospect

 

[moosekill]

This team doesn't suck, this teams offense sucks. This team lost it's two best defenders, and most of the rest of their deffensive backs and still is keeping the team in contention most every game, even with the offense completely sucking. And enough with the much worse offensive players, running backs are equal or better, I would take Zeke over Harris every day, wide receivers were equal or better until Parker and Borne got hurt, o-line started worse, but was better for a while, now is probably worse.

It all comes down to the qb. He sucks, no amount of ball washing from the anti BB posters will change that. Unfortunately, the OMG amazing qb class he came out with has pretty much all sucked, even Lawrence. Which of course has more to do with Covid limiting games and practices and limiting the ability of NFL scouts to really judge these players accurately.

 

[PatsFan2]

What If Zappe Gets the nod have a decent game Offense looks competent ie... Thornton and the rest of our Receivers come to life?? I am not only talking only the Giants game I'm going a little beyond that. I know Zappe is nothing special but when given A FULL Games chance not mop up he looks decent thoughts...

 

[Triumph]

Why would a Jones fan say the QB is garbage and ruined?

You are just a BB defender. If all the problems can be fixed by replacing 1 man well then Bill made all the right roster and coaching decisions! Remove any blame from him!

I'm just acknowledging the reality that while getting a better QB will help this team out. It has A LOT of other issues as well. Saying "Mac Jones sucks BUT...." Doesn't make someone a Mac Jones defender.

Are we 2-8 with competent QB play? Probably not. But we also aren't 8-2 given all the other issues.

I was adamant in the offseason this was at best a .500 team given that lack of talent, schedule etc.

Mac falling off a cliff makes them 2-8. but pointing out the roster failures doesn't make me a Mac defender.

Once again if Bill comes back next year would you be comfortable with him giving a rookie QB Patricia/judge and parker/Bourne as his top 2?

Ruined by Patricia.

Ruined from no talent WRs.

No blocking.

The QB makes the OC and HC. Not the reverse. If Patricia was Bradys OC you'd be singing a different tune.

 

[RIpats88]

Ruined by Patricia.

Ruined from no talent WRs.

No blocking.

The QB makes the OC and HC. Not the reverse. If Patricia was Bradys OC you'd be singing a different tune.

Mac Jones being bad, having no talent recievers, no blocking and Patricia being bad all can be true at once.

One being bad doesn't mean other is good. It's such a simplistic view. "If this bad then that = good, no 2 things can be bad!"

And no Patricia would be a horrible OC even if Brady was QB. Brady would just make the best of it because he was a generational talent.

 

[sb1]

What If Zappe Gets the nod have a decent game Offense looks competent ie... Thornton and the rest of our Receivers come to life?? I am not only talking only the Giants game I'm going a little beyond that. I know Zappe is nothing special but when given A FULL Games chance not mop up he looks decent thoughts...

Then maybe he’ll start to build some trade value higher than the zero he has now. None of these QBs including MJ10(TM) are playing for the starting job in 2024 that ship has sailed. Just a spot on the team.

 

[lancerman]

What If Zappe Gets the nod have a decent game Offense looks competent ie... Thornton and the rest of our Receivers come to life?? I am not only talking only the Giants game I'm going a little beyond that. I know Zappe is nothing special but when given A FULL Games chance not mop up he looks decent thoughts...

The Giants game is the easiest game on the schedule. So he’s basically getting the situation he got last year. He better shine in it. If he can’t do that, it’s a rough road for him going forward

 

[Thelonious]

The only reasons for playing Mac has been to offer him an extended opportunity to do better so that he could, in theory, improve, "show what he can do," and possibly elevate his stock as a tradeable player, enhancing his value in that way and maybe giving him a better situation wherever he may end up. I have supported Mac;s starting until now. Some would say the team owes him that opportunity, given the crap manner in which the team - Belichick - "developed and supported" him. The decision was made easier by the facts that no one else on the roster is confirmably better than Mac, and that it would be a fool's errand in a lost season to bring yet another possible replacement at starter or backup. Efforts along those lines this year have been a clowngoggle ****show anyway. It's clear by now that neither the HC nor the GM has a clue what to do about the QB situation, a failure which has now extended over multiple years.

At this point, that rationale has gotten pretty tattered. In effect, it doesn't really matter any more which on-roster QB plays, except that we might perhaps let Grier play to see what if anything he has to offer. Why not?

Aside from all this, I think the "quarterback issue" isn't really an issue at all. The season is over. We are "on to 2024." Who starts is now a trivial decision. If somebody can think of a particular rational reason to play one of our stalwarts over another of our stalwarts, be my guest. I see no basis for disagreeing with ANY choice of starter. It doesn't matter.

Fire the GM.

 

[Ross12]

Now we’re saying Patricia wasn’t that bad?

lol. That is all.

I think Patricia sucked, but I no longer think that Patricia sucking had nearly as much to do with Mac sucking as I did previously. I also have started to believe that Bill, Patricia and Judge had the right idea in 2022 simplifying things for Mac and just having him focus on running the play as designed and going through his reads - the problem being that the play design was absolutely awful, and Patricia was a bad playcaller. But the concept of simplifying things for Mac was probably wise, and it certainly made sense for other players on the roster who had a lot less to learn.

But Mac blamed this simplification for his poor performance and many fans said "he's a cerebral QB, you took away his best skill!" Mac was calling people outside the organization for "tips and tricks" about offense... Obviously Kraft bought it. They went back to the more complicated system with BOB, which gives Mac a lot more to think about and also his receivers. Harder to learn for everyone. Mac is clearly in his own head more than he was last year which can't help things at all. I think BOB's play design and playcalling have been better, but the overall offensive execution has been worse, because it's more complicated and the players aren't executing it well. Whereas the players were typically executing well last year, but they were executing ****ty calls.

The right fit for Mac is probably a simplified system where he doesn't have much to think about and the playcaller is not an idiot. But the outcome of that probably still is not that good, because even then you're just left with a QB that does not have much in the way of physical tools... Purdy-extra-lite, maybe.

 

[amfootball]

This is how bad it has been ...

 

[PatsFan2]

I think Patricia sucked, but I no longer think that Patricia sucking had nearly as much to do with Mac sucking as I did previously. I also have started to believe that Bill, Patricia and Judge had the right idea in 2022 simplifying things for Mac and just having him focus on running the play as designed and going through his reads - the problem being that the play design was absolutely awful, and Patricia was a bad playcaller. But the concept of simplifying things for Mac was probably wise, and it certainly made sense for other players on the roster who had a lot less to learn.

But Mac blamed this simplification for his poor performance and many fans said "he's a cerebral QB, you took away his best skill!" Mac was calling people outside the organization for "tips and tricks" about offense... Obviously Kraft bought it. They went back to the more complicated system with BOB, which gives Mac a lot more to think about and also his receivers. Harder to learn for everyone. Mac is clearly in his own head more than he was last year which can't help things at all. I think BOB's play design and playcalling have been better, but the overall offensive execution has been worse, because it's more complicated and the players aren't executing it well. Whereas the players were typically executing well last year, but they were executing ****ty calls.

The right fit for Mac is probably a simplified system where he doesn't have much to think about and the playcaller is not an idiot. But the outcome of that probably still is not that good, because even then you're just left with a QB that does not have much in the way of physical tools... Purdy-extra-lite, maybe.

BB thrives off beating back up QB's nobody can't tell me that if Mac was QB for another Team BB wouldn't annihilate him. So I am coming around to the Kraft wanted Mac take which just won't fly anymore even with them. The Blatant flaw I see in Mac is that he can't throw dimes outside CB's are daring him to throw it out there. Those Lollypops won't cut it on this level and I am sure BOB and especially BB knows that.