Mac and the "It Factor"

[RodThePat]

I don't think Stevenson got bad in a bubble though. I think it stems from the OL.

You seem to think players just get bad. I disagree. Guess it takes heat away from bill if it's just guys playing poorly. The offense operates as a unit and one broken piece screws everything up.

You have an OL that can't block and receivers who no one respects because they are mediocre. So defenses key in on the run game. It's all related. They basically are daring parker/juju/Bourne to get open. And they can't.

Bill built a garbage roster. Let's all admit it. Put Stevenson on the 49ers and he's lighting it up every week.

You seem to think athletes are always what they are week to week and have no variance in performance levels and any oscillation is due to environment around them. That's simply not how it works. Running backs have bad stretches all the time, running backs become pedestrian overnight all the time. Not saying is what happened to Stevenson, but he could be performing at a much higher level than he currently is. I'll agree that even a very good Rhamondre wouldn't be enough to make the running game respectable, but he's played poorly. Zeke has been demonstrably better behind the exact same OL.

 

[mike_usagisan]

You seem to think athletes are always what they are week to week and have no variance in performance levels and any oscillation is due to environment around them. That's simply not how it works. Running backs have bad stretches all the time, running backs become pedestrian overnight all the time. Not saying is what happened to Stevenson, but he could be performing at a much higher level than he currently is. I'll agree that even a very good Rhamondre wouldn't be enough to make the running game respectable, but he's played poorly. Zeke has been demonstrably better behind the exact same OL.

The way Stevenson is playing, I think there might be some injury issues we're not hearing about. He just has not looked himself, even with the OL issues.

 

[mike_usagisan]

from what I see, here is what happened. Pats roster stinks and we cant score. so Mac tries to do too much to make up for it and "make a play"

hes not talented enough to do that and it leads to turnovers and poor throws. But its also negligent to draft a young QB give them the likes of bourne/parker/juju with no run game and ask them to go out and win.

fans and the media complained all offseason bill was building this team like the 70's. we were called idiots. now that the results are as expected the blame is taken off Bill again.

Yeah, I think this has nailed it for me. It's clear Mac's trying too hard when things go bad and then they get worse. But the supporting cast aren't good enough either. I was hopeful that BOB would be enough to scheme these WRs open, but either it's not happening or Mac's not seeing them. I'm hopeful they can right the ship enough, but I think it's looking more like we need to overhaul the WRs in free agency, get a LT either in draft or free agency, and draft a QB.

 

[sb1]

Yeah, I think this has nailed it for me. It's clear Mac's trying too hard when things go bad and then they get worse. But the supporting cast aren't good enough either. I was hopeful that BOB would be enough to scheme these WRs open, but either it's not happening or Mac's not seeing them. I'm hopeful they can right the ship enough, but I think it's looking more like we need to overhaul the WRs in free agency, get a LT either in draft or free agency, and draft a QB.

Also looks like it might be a lot easier to bring Onwenu back than we thought. He’s been lousy for a guy in a contract year.

 

[RodThePat]

The thing with the "Mac is pressing because he feels like he has to do too much" line of thinking is that he's been the reason the team falls into holes in the first place. I mean, yesterday he missed an open Gesicki in the endzone, got zero push on a QB sneak in which he had room to get the first and then showed zero awareness and fumbled the ball. That's it. It was a game all the way until that last bad mistake. Of course, after that you're in a big deficit and desperation kicks in, but he builds these deficits. Same with the Philly pick 6.

He's consistently been one of the worst QBs in football by EPA/Play in game context neutral situations (win probability between 20 and 80%). He was really bad at that even in his good rookie year.

 

[archstanton543]

The thing with the "Mac is pressing because he feels like he has to do too much" line of thinking is that he's been the reason the team falls into holes in the first place. I mean, yesterday he missed an open Gesicki in the endzone, got zero push on a QB sneak in which he had room to get the first and then showed zero awareness and fumbled the ball. That's it. It was a game all the way until that last bad mistake. Of course, after that you're in a big deficit and desperation kicks in, but he builds these deficits. Same with the Philly pick 6.

He didn't miss Gesucky. The ball hit him in the hands. He should have caught it.

 

[Ian]

He didn't miss Gesucky. The ball hit him in the hands. He should have caught it.

That and he got grabbed but it wasn't called. Watched it back last night, that's what kept him from getting depth there and why he was inches short from catching it.

 

[RodThePat]

He didn't miss Gesucky. The ball hit him in the hands. He should have caught it.

It hit him in the fingers of his sole outstretched hand. Do you even watch the games? He was wide open.

 

[Ian]

It hit him in the fingers of his sole outstretched hand. Do you even watch the games? He was wide open.

He was also held (and it wasn't called), which is why he didn't get deep enough on the play. @Ross12 pointed that out when it happened and I saw the same thing when I watched it back last night.

 

[archstanton543]

It hit him in the fingers of his sole outstretched hand. Do you even watch the games? He was wide open.

I did. He was held and still should have caught it. Other Pats reporters this morning say the same thing.

Do YOU even watch the games?

 

[RodThePat]

I did. He was held and still should have caught it. Other Pats reporters this morning say the same thing.

Do YOU even watch the games?

"Other Pats reporters say the same thing" lol. That's the lamest appeal to authority I've ever seen in my life.

Mac Jones is the only quarterback in football that isn't liable for anything he does. Receivers should make spectacular one handed catches when they're open in the endzone instead of having the ball delivered on time and with good placement when they win on routes. I don't know why Gesicki has to make a great play but Mac can't be expected to complete the routine. And then Hunter Henry makes an absurd one handed catch while falling down in a play in which, again, he was wide open, and no one comments on it, it's just him doing his job.

People are completely blind to what it takes from quarterbacks in this league. They think teams just have guys running Division III open all day long.

 

[Ian]

"Other Pats reporters say the same thing" lol. That's the lamest appeal to authority I've ever seen in my life.

Again, just watch it. Gesicki wouldn't have needed to make a great play had he not been held.

 

[mike_usagisan]

Also looks like it might be a lot easier to bring Onwenu back than we thought. He’s been lousy for a guy in a contract year.

True, though he's coming off injury himself. Doesn't explain the false starts, though.

 

[archstanton543]

"Other Pats reporters say the same thing" lol. That's the lamest appeal to authority I've ever seen in my life.

Mac Jones is the only quarterback in football that isn't liable for anything he does. Receivers should make spectacular one handed catches when they're open in the endzone instead of having the ball delivered on time and with good placement when they win on routes. I don't know why Gesicki has to make a great play but Mac can't be expected to complete the routine. And then Hunter Henry makes an absurd one handed catch while falling down in a play in which, again, he was wide open, and no one comments on it, it's just him doing his job.

People are completely blind to what it takes from quarterbacks in this league. They think teams just have guys running Division III open all day long.

So what? The beat reporters watch the games too.

 

[RodThePat]

Again, just watch it. Gesicki wouldn't have needed to make a great play had he not been held.

You're also free to watch and realize he had 3 yards of separation and there's ZERO reason for that ball to be placed that high and deep towards the back of the endzone. Even if Gesicki wasn't impeded at all the throw would have made the catch harder than it needed to be. He won on the route early, he was open, get him the easy catch.

I once again ask why everything and everyone needs to be perfect around the quarterback but we can't demand even the routine from him. Gesicki has to win early, he can't be bumped on the route, he needs to have separation, the OL had to hold up, he needs to make a high catch at the back of the endzone. All of that is demanded. But "float the ball to the open TE"? Just unfair to ask.

Edit: if you watch halfway closely you'll also see the defensive backs makes contact with Gesicki before Mac throws the ball. It's not like he threw with anticipation and the bump just altered the expected position of the receiver. Gesicki breaks open, gets contacted then Mac throws.

 

[mike_usagisan]

You're also free to watch and realize he had 3 yards of separation and there's ZERO reason for that ball to be placed that high and deep towards the back of the endzone. Even if Gesicki wasn't impeded at all the throw would have made the catch harder than it needed to be. He won on the route early, he was open, get him the easy catch.

I once again ask why everything and everyone needs to be perfect around the quarterback but we can't demand even the routine from him. Gesicki has to win early, he can't be bumped on the route, he needs to have separation, the OL had to hold up, he needs to make a high catch at the back of the endzone. All of that is demanded. But "float the ball to the open TE"? Just unfair to ask.

The ones that drive me crazy are when Mac throws a screen or a short pass and doesn't hit his receivers in stride, so they either have to juggle it or come back for it.

 

[Ian]

You're also free to watch and realize he had 3 yards of separation and there's ZERO reason for that ball to be placed that high and deep towards the back of the endzone. Even if Gesicki wasn't impeded at all the throw would have made the catch harder than it needed to be. He won on the route early, he was open, get him the easy catch.

I once again ask why everything and everyone needs to be perfect around the quarterback but we can't demand even the routine from him.

That's not the case at all. Gesicki is being held right here as Mac is letting it go:

 

[Ian]

You're also free to watch and realize he had 3 yards of separation and there's ZERO reason for that ball to be placed that high and deep towards the back of the endzone.

He dropped it in the back of the end zone because that's where Gesicki was supposed to be because that's likely how they practiced it, usually due to the fact that's typically an area where it's the safer throw.

But I don't disagree with you on your sentiments with Mac - yesterday was a disaster otherwise and it can't continue.

 

[203Pat]

We're in here arguing over one potential Geseki play when that pick 6 was one of the worst I have ever seen. Nathan Peterman-esque. It was a hitch route with Bourne standing there and the defender right in front of him and Mac noodle arms a wobbler right at him. Inexcusable. I was so annoyed last night and went to bed thinking I wouldn't be as annoyed in the morning but it's even worse today. Just an awful, awful play from a bad QB with limited skills.

 

[Ian]

We're in here arguing over one potential Geseki play when that pick 6 was one of the worst I have ever seen. Nathan Peterman-esque. It was a hitch route with Bourne standing there and the defender right in front of him and Mac noodle arms a wobbler right at him. Inexcusable. I was so annoyed last night and went to bed thinking I wouldn't be as annoyed in the morning but it's even worse today. Just an awful, awful play from a bad QB with limited skills.

The worst part about that play is the fact Mac should have known he got away with the other, but only due to how far off they were playing. To go back to it was horrifically bad, and that's 100% on him.