PostGame Thread 2023 Week 2: Patriots Lose to Dolphins 24-17

[Boomer B]

The Dolphins drafted Waddle and went out and got T. Hill because they knew the likes of D. Parker and M. Geiski weren’t good enough to be part of an élite offence.

We went out and got Parker and Geiski. Shows the difference in the teams skill positions and offensive outlook.

 

[VJCPatriot]

With a competent set of OTs, we do much better.

You mean the competent set of OTs that BB neither signed in free agency nor drafted? I mean who didn't see this coming a mile away EXCEPT for BB and his loyal cadre of supporters?

 

[VJCPatriot]

The Dolphins drafted Waddle and went out and got T. Hill because they knew the likes of D. Parker and M. Geiski weren’t good enough to be part of an élite offence.

The Dolphins can actually identify offensive talent. This is an ability clearly lacking in both our scouting department and our drafting and personnel decision makers!

We went out and got Parker and Geiski. Shows the difference in the teams skill positions and offensive outlook.

BB is too used to Brady being able to create good offense out of a couple of decent receivers plus a couple of random dudes straight off the street from Worcester! Mac Jones is not that TYPE of QB to elevate an entire offense and make the other players better. He needs some ELITE help to prop up his 5.5 YPA!

 

[VJCPatriot]

The team is what we thought they would be. Right now in last place in the division.
Next week at the Jets will be tough. 0-3 is a real possibility here.

The only thing that might save us from last place in the division is that the Jets are the Jets and they just LOST Rodgers to a long term injury! The JETES suck curse continues!

Now I know our offense was just AWFUL against both the Eagles and the Dolphins but those two teams are noticeably more talented than us and I expected us to lose. If we lose to the Jets of all teams next week, without Rodgers, that would be stooping to a NEW LOW and BB should definitely be on the HOT SEAT!

 

[VJCPatriot]

View attachment 52890

Next thing you know, we'll be hanging "AFC East Participant" banners!! Oh how the standards have FALLEN!!

 

[VJCPatriot]

Ok so let's try to sum up what happened objectively.

The Patriots scored 3 points less than last week. Did they make any strides offensively though?

Negative. Mac Jones continued to disappoint on the YPA front averaging just 5.5 YPA on his 231 yards passing, 1 TD, and 1 INT.

Last week I predicted we would be in big trouble if Mac Jones continued to throw for 5.8 YPA so he managed to do even WORSE and he also threw 2 less touchdowns.

How about the running game? Surely we made progress there. Last week Stevenson and Elliott combined for 54 yards rushing.

Technically they improved with the tandem producing a grand total of 63 yards between the two of them for a 3.15 yards per carry!

Wow I guess they're pacing themselves, wouldn't want to improve too fast and actually reach 100 yards rushing! That would set the standards way too high!

How about the defense? A pretty similar story, they did serviceable work and came up with a couple of turnovers forcing one INT on Tua with a great catch from rookie Christian Gonzalez and a forced fumble recovered by Kyle Dugger which led to... absolutely ZERO points as our anemic offense produced NOTHING out of that golden opportunity!

So what's the fix? At this point it's obviously a TALENT issue and to a lesser extent an execution issue. This offense has no chance in hell of making a comeback once the other team scores over 20 points. That's rather pathetic.

Mac Jones has shown us that the "popgun" arm we saw last year is still here. Maybe he can curl a few pounds more in the gym but I haven't seen a single frozen rope that indicates his actual "football arm strength" has improved. 5.8 YPA and 5.5 YPA respectively in his first 2 games. OOF!

Now the bright pink elephant in the room is the mockery of an OL that BB has assembled. During draft night did we not collectively all AGREE that OT, in particular LEFT TACKLE was a huge need? What did BB do? Of course spend ALL his top chips on the defense! And this after signing no offensive tackle of note in free agency when we had the most free cap space of all NFL teams save 4. What did you think would happen? BB is a DISGRACE as a GM and this predictable dilemma is of his own making.

Now does BB have the guts to admit he SCREWED up and attempt to FIX this mess in the next couple of weeks? That's what we're all waiting to find out. Because repeating the same mistakes and expecting different results, that's called insanity!

 

[Ollie]

Mac is looking better, with better pocket awareness and mobility and throwing on the move but it's impossible to judge fully as he has very little time for anything more than short passing and our whole offense just looks slow nad plodding. We have ONE guy who can make things happened and BB decided to bench him for fumbling. Who knew that the line and WR were going to be an issue before the season started.. literally everyone except Bill it seems.

 

[Uptown]

Not anti-Mac; however, this is concerning in general.

 

[masterbouncer]

Not anti-Mac; however, this is concerning.

you can put any QB there with 99,9% same result, within this Offense with noone actually showing to be a real threat to D# and an O-Line that can't hold a nose bleeding for 2 sec thats a appropriate result, watch Bradys last year at the Pats and how the Offense was performing there, with the GOAT it was same, how many points did they make vs Titans? 13? yeah well the O-Line was **** but better than what we have right now and the receivers back than were also way better, its the offense overall not only the QB (not saying Mac is a world beater but behind this ****show you cannot do much against anyone in the NFL)

times have changed in the NFL

 

[Lagaffe_07]

you can put any QB there with 99,9% same result

Sure mate keep telling yourself that.

 

[catent]

.

 

[archstanton543]

Ok so let's try to sum up what happened objectively.

The Patriots scored 3 points less than last week. Did they make any strides offensively though?

Negative. Mac Jones continued to disappoint on the YPA front averaging just 5.5 YPA on his 231 yards passing, 1 TD, and 1 INT.

Last week I predicted we would be in big trouble if Mac Jones continued to throw for 5.8 YPA so he managed to do even WORSE and he also threw 2 less touchdowns.

How about the running game? Surely we made progress there. Last week Stevenson and Elliott combined for 54 yards rushing.

Technically they improved with the tandem producing a grand total of 63 yards between the two of them for a 3.15 yards per carry!

Wow I guess they're pacing themselves, wouldn't want to improve too fast and actually reach 100 yards rushing! That would set the standards way too high!

How about the defense? A pretty similar story, they did serviceable work and came up with a couple of turnovers forcing one INT on Tua with a great catch from rookie Christian Gonzalez and a forced fumble recovered by Kyle Dugger which led to... absolutely ZERO points as our anemic offense produced NOTHING out of that golden opportunity!

So what's the fix? At this point it's obviously a TALENT issue and to a lesser extent an execution issue. This offense has no chance in hell of making a comeback once the other team scores over 20 points. That's rather pathetic.

Mac Jones has shown us that the "popgun" arm we saw last year is still here. Maybe he can curl a few pounds more in the gym but I haven't seen a single frozen rope that indicates his actual "football arm strength" has improved. 5.8 YPA and 5.5 YPA respectively in his first 2 games. OOF!

Now the bright pink elephant in the room is the mockery of an OL that BB has assembled. During draft night did we not collectively all AGREE that OT, in particular LEFT TACKLE was a huge need? What did BB do? Of course spend ALL his top chips on the defense! And this after signing no offensive tackle of note in free agency when we had the most free cap space of all NFL teams save 4. What did you think would happen? BB is a DISGRACE as a GM and this predictable dilemma is of his own making.

Now does BB have the guts to admit he SCREWED up and attempt to FIX this mess in the next couple of weeks? That's what we're all waiting to find out. Because repeating the same mistakes and expecting different results, that's called insanity!

And yet:

 

[catent]

The OL is an issue but Jones is not playing well enough.

The issue isn’t that Mac Jones isn’t good enough (generally). The issue is that Jones is particularly and consistently bad under certain circumstances.

Moving in the pocket, when blitzed, throwing intermediate passes outside the hashes, in critical game situations, when in-game pressure strikes. I know it’s subjective speculation but he really seems to be a sensitive guy and a front runner; when things are going well, he looks good. When adversity strikes he loses his edge and becomes a shell of himself.

Under perfect circumstances, with a clean pocket, when playing from ahead, when the game is comfortable, he’s a very accurate passer. Under any adversity, he falls apart, mentally and mechanically. And that’s ignoring his many physical limitations (which can be overcome but are still present).

 

[archstanton543]

The OL is an issue but Jones is not playing well enough.

The issue isn’t that Mac Jones isn’t good enough (generally). The issue is that Jones is particularly and consistently bad under certain circumstances.

Moving in the pocket, when blitzed, throwing intermediate passes outside the hashes, in critical game situations, when in-game pressure strikes. I know it’s subjective speculation but he really seems to be a sensitive guy and a front runner; when things are going well, he looks good. When adversity strikes he loses his edge and becomes a shell of himself.

Under perfect circumstances, with a clean pocket, when playing from ahead, when the game is comfortable, he’s a very accurate passer. Under any adversity, he falls apart, mentally and mechanically. And that’s ignoring his many physical limitations (which can be overcome but are still present).

And yet, last game:

 

[Ollie]

Sure mate keep telling yourself that.

Brady looked pretty average in 2019 with bad weapons and a lot of people thought he was spent and then the next year looked great with the Bucs. WHy do you think that was?

 

[Rob0729]

You can’t run play action with this offensive line. Mac turns his back to the defense and and he turns around to see two defenders about to pounce on him. As a post a few posts back shows that he is the most pressured QB in the NFL.

 

[borg]

And yet:

Mac is a fantastic stat accumulator when defenses are in BEND 'n BREAK mode.
1st qtr............

.....though he did manage a passing TD to the opposing D vs Philly

 

[Rob0729]

The OL is an issue but Jones is not playing well enough.

The issue isn’t that Mac Jones isn’t good enough (generally). The issue is that Jones is particularly and consistently bad under certain circumstances.

Moving in the pocket, when blitzed, throwing intermediate passes outside the hashes, in critical game situations, when in-game pressure strikes. I know it’s subjective speculation but he really seems to be a sensitive guy and a front runner; when things are going well, he looks good. When adversity strikes he loses his edge and becomes a shell of himself.

Under perfect circumstances, with a clean pocket, when playing from ahead, when the game is comfortable, he’s a very accurate passer. Under any adversity, he falls apart, mentally and mechanically. And that’s ignoring his many physical limitations (which can be overcome but are still present).

Mac threw for three TDs and over 300 yards while being pressured 21-28 times (depending on which stat service you use) on 54 throws. And of course this from Sunday night:



This Mac needs a clean pocket to make good throws is a narrative that isn’t supported by the facts.

 

[Ross12]

As I look at things again I find myself feeling more optimistic about the offense long-term. I am becoming a much bigger believer in Mac Jones. He is showing a lot of ability this year that we haven’t seen before and I’m really eager to see what he would show us with actual time in the pocket and not under pressure constantly. I don’t really understand why people are so down on him considering what he’s dealing with. What pocket passer QB in the league today wouldn’t struggle in those conditions?

I see complaints about Parker and how we shouldn’t have extended him and should have signed Hopkins instead with that money. First off, the extension for Parker actually lowered his cap hit this year, so it was cost reduction this year - not increase. They didn’t use money they could have used on Hopkins and gave it to Parker instead, they made new money. Second, his hits in future years are not high - only around $6M the next two seasons. That’s WR3 money. He’s not being paid to be “the guy”, he was kept to be a complementary piece. Third, he’s looked perfectly fine so far. He got bodied by Howard, sure, but otherwise he has run good routes and caught plenty of passes in his first week back. He’s not a #1 but he’s solid enough. He is what he’s paid to be, he’s probably better than what he’s paid to be, don’t hate a dude because he’s not several tiers better than his contract. And fourth - he’s playing better than Hopkins so far in 2023 anyway…

Juju is sort of the other side of that, he hasn’t done much at all so far and is underperforming his deal, but I also get the sense they’re misusing him. He’s not shifty enough, at least right now, for screens. But he probably can find soft spots and create YAC if Mac had time to survey the field in an actual route tree. Right now, Pop really should be getting more snaps.

All this is to say that the OL is the big glaring issue causing all of this. The right tackle position is still not good and the guards have been raw rookies or rusty vets just coming back from injury. If they can find some way to get this group settled and playing even average football, I think the offense will improve markedly, Mac will look very good and we will see all of the receivers improve. But that is a big “IF”. It might be something that doesn’t happen until 2024.

 

[Triumph]

Dude, if we did a poll between me and you on who should leave this board, you would win by a landslide.

Well, I am the triggered worst nightmare.

And I am clearly not the most popular guy on this board.

Dont sell yourself short. Youre the biggest Mac Jones apologist.

I haven’t made an excuse for Mac yet. In fact, I criticized Mac for his sideline throws to the right last night.

That said, if you think Mac Jones is the biggest problem with this offense or even close to the biggest problem, you might want to check your own biases.

I agree 100% you havent made any excuses for Jones.