(Edited Title:) Writer thinks Zappe is winning the QB "battle"?

[Betterthanmost]

I can’t believe that this thread is still active.

You say but some key folks are reporting that Zappe is clearly throwing with anticipation a lot better than Mac and soon we may start to see Zappe with the ones.

 

[PatsFans.com Article]

Mac Jones vs Bailey Zappe: “Everybody is Out Here Competing”
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So far this preseason, it's been New England Patriots quarterback Mac Jones leading the way with the first team during New England's offensive snaps, while Bailey Zappe has consistently been taking snaps behind him with the second team. That said, it sounds like Belichick has been pleased enough with Zappe's recent turnaround that he's going to let the second-year quarterback keep pushing Jones to stay on top of his game.

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[stinkypete]

Matt Ryan was league MVP and a couple of plays away from being Super Bowl MVP. He'll retire in the top 10 for every volume passing stat. He was a top 10 QB as a rookie under a bad head coach. Mac Jones' ceiling is far from Matt Ryan.

I'm not impressed with Ryan's volume stats. He put up big yardage and consistently high completion percentages, but if you take away his first two years and the 2016 outlier, he averaged about 25TD/15INT.

My allusion to the pre-draft projection of Ryan as Jones' ceiling (and Dalton as his floor) is more about a QBs ability to elevate a team. Ryan looked great when he had good teams, mediocre on bad teams, and made some playoff runs in years when the competition was weak. Dalton looked good when he had great teams, bad on bad teams, and was never good enough break through a stacked conference. Both were only as good as the talent around them, but they ultimately limited their teams.

 

[Rob0729]

except..... I never even remotely said any of those things....

I agree Mac Jones' performance suffered last year due to coaching. Yet, for some reason, you are not willing to afford Zappe the same benefit of the doubt.... and I am not cherry picking Zappe's performance, I am happy to look at his entire stat line.....

Because they coached Zappe differently. They managed him and gave him safe throws and tried to call plays that suited him. They didn’t do that with the offense when Mac was on the field.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

People seem to get their panties in a bunch over our backup QB. He’s the backup …don’t sweat it…until he isn’t.

If you listened to PU yesterday, even Evan Lazar starts to get somewhat frustrated from what he is seeing from Mac since camp has started and wants to see what Zappe can do with the firsts. Lazar indicated that he thoughts Zappe was a little more decisive with the ball and throw with a little bit more anticipation.

Mac is clearly ahead in the depth chart but Evan pointed that him and Zappe gets almost exactly the same number of reps and the same play calls. It will be interesting to see if that stays the same as camp progresses or if Mac gets more and more reps compare to Zappe.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

Because they coached Zappe differently. They managed him and gave him safe throws and tried to call plays that suited him. They didn’t do that with the offense when Mac was on the field.

It’s pretty clear that Bill thought that after his rookie year Mac could do more but he was mistaking.

After Mac came back from injuries they also changed the offense for him and went back to the short game to try to limit his turnovers. They were a lot less agressive than the first 3 games.

 

[sb1]

I think the whole “competing” thing is just a generic BB soundbite we’ve heard hundreds of times on different topics and nothing more. Meaning he isn’t going to let anyone know what he’s thinking.

BB knows he cannot make a mistake on who his QB is or it could mean he won’t be here to break Shula’s record.

 

[sb1]

It’s Mac’s job to lose.

Hot take: If we see any more embarrassing hysterics like last year- he will in fact lose it.

 

[Triumph]

It’s pretty clear that Bill thought that after his rookie year Mac could do more but he was mistaking.

After Mac came back from injuries they also changed the offense for him and went back to the short game to try to limit his turnovers. They were a lot less agressive than the first 3 games.

Yup, dinking and dunking which is Jones game because he does not have the NFL arm.

Check down to Stevenson.

 

[Triumph]

If you listened to PU yesterday, even Evan Lazar starts to get somewhat frustrated from what he is seeing from Mac since camp has started and wants to see what Zappe can do with the firsts. Lazar indicated that he thoughts Zappe was a little more decisive with the ball and throw with a little bit more anticipation.

Mac is clearly ahead in the depth chart but Evan pointed that him and Zappe gets almost exactly the same number of reps and the same play calls. It will be interesting to see if that stays the same as camp progresses or if Mac gets more and more reps compare to Zappe.

I believe that Zappe has worked harder because he wants the job more.

Nothing has been handed to him like Jones.

 

[RodThePat]

I'm not impressed with Ryan's volume stats. He put up big yardage and consistently high completion percentages, but if you take away his first two years and the 2016 outlier, he averaged about 25TD/15INT.

My allusion to the pre-draft projection of Ryan as Jones' ceiling (and Dalton as his floor) is more about a QBs ability to elevate a team. Ryan looked great when he had good teams, mediocre on bad teams, and made some playoff runs in years when the competition was weak. Dalton looked good when he had great teams, bad on bad teams, and was never good enough break through a stacked conference. Both were only as good as the talent around them, but they ultimately limited their teams.

If Matt Ryan ultimately limited his team then the Patriots should move on from Mac right now and try and tank for QBs until they find their version of Burrow or Mahomes. If that caliber of QB isn't a plus, then they are wasting their time with Mac Jones.

 

[RodThePat]

If you listened to PU yesterday, even Evan Lazar starts to get somewhat frustrated from what he is seeing from Mac since camp has started and wants to see what Zappe can do with the firsts. Lazar indicated that he thoughts Zappe was a little more decisive with the ball and throw with a little bit more anticipation.

Mac is clearly ahead in the depth chart but Evan pointed that him and Zappe gets almost exactly the same number of reps and the same play calls. It will be interesting to see if that stays the same as camp progresses or if Mac gets more and more reps compare to Zappe.

Lazar is a strange guy. He's a completely different person on PU than he is on Twitter. On the show he seemed really down on Mac and his unwillingness to challenge the defense and take NFL window throws, opting to check down too often when guys are open and being indecisive. And then you look at his feed and there's no indication of that sentiment at all.

 

[sb1]

If Matt Ryan ultimately limited his team then the Patriots should move on from Mac right now and try and tank for QBs until they find their version of Burrow or Mahomes. If that caliber of QB isn't a plus, then they are wasting their time with Mac Jones.

That’s the problem that every team in QB purgatory has. It’s very hard to find that guy. Took the Bills 3 first round picks and 20 years to find theirs.

Mostly likely the solution won’t be found by turning to the backup. Brady is never happening again.

 

[RodThePat]

That’s the problem that every team in QB purgatory has. It’s very hard to find that guy. Took the Bills 3 first round picks and 20 years to find theirs.

Mostly likely the solution won’t be found by turning to the backup. Brady is never happening again.

See, I think you can be very competitive with Matt Ryan, or even the Kirk Cousins of the world. The problem with the Bills is they never even got close to that caliber of player, save for two seasons of Bledsoe. But if that guy isn't enough, then they shouldn't have drafted Mac Jones in the first place, because to me becoming Matt Ryan would be his 99.999 percentile outcome. I think there is value in having that kind of player, and so do they. If you don't, then Mac Jones is a waste of time.

 

[Wozzy]

If Matt Ryan ultimately limited his team then the Patriots should move on from Mac right now and try and tank for QBs until they find their version of Burrow or Mahomes. If that caliber of QB isn't a plus, then they are wasting their time with Mac Jones.

Matt Ryan didn't "limit his team," over his 14 year career in Atlanta his team defense ranked top ten in points allowed three times. His teams were never good enough, he was plenty good enough.

 

[RodThePat]

Matt Ryan didn't "limit his team," over his 14 year career in Atlanta his team defense ranked top ten in points allowed three times. His teams were never good enough, he was plenty good enough.

That's precisely my point.

 

[sb1]

See, I think you can be very competitive with Matt Ryan, or even the Kirk Cousins of the world. The problem with the Bills is they never even got close to that caliber of player, save for two seasons of Bledsoe. But if that guy isn't enough, then they shouldn't have drafted Mac Jones in the first place, because to me becoming Matt Ryan would be his 99.999 percentile outcome. I think there is value in having that kind of player, and so do they. If you don't, then Mac Jones is a waste of time.

Right. So far I think Mac's draft profile almost nailed it. A high floor low ceiling guy. The team can win WITH him but I don't think he's shown yet that they can win BECAUSE of him. The draft was tough - the Pats clearly needed a QB and unless they wanted to gamble on Trask or Mills then Mac was the only call. The more talented and hyped guys were all taken.

As for the Bills maybe @GreenCow would know better but feels like there's a few parallels between JP Losman-Trent Edwards and Mac-Zappe. Losman was the first rounder, had some flaws but a good athlete, supposed to be the next guy, he won the starting job in his first camp, had a solid first season, got hurt, Edwards took over and when Losman was ready the fans demanded Edwards keep playing even though I'm not sure he really did anything on the field to warrant the promotion. I think they also simplified the offense for Edwards and that helped them win games anyway. I don't think Losman was coached very well either, he had a big arm and their offense suited Edwards more than him. Sounds familiar...

 

[Wozzy]

That's precisely my point.

The Bills have had arguably the most talented roster in the AFC for years running now and can't get to that final game... and they supposedly have a golden elite franchise caliber QB under center. It's hard to win a ring.

Every rookie player needs to prove themselves, Mac, Zappe, all the kids drafted this year. The notion Mac just gets accepted as "starter" because of his draft position is nonsense. Even if Mac wins the job out of camp, is his job safe if he starts throwing interceptions again?

Show me... everyone in this league needs to prove it.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

It’s Mac’s job to lose.

Hot take: If we see any more embarrassing hysterics like last year- he will in fact lose it.

I 100% agree with this. It’s Mac job to lose but the way the practice are setups tells me that the coaching staff is interested in what Zappe can do. They are creating a baseline to be able to compare the two. It can just be the case of evaluating how long the leach should be in case Mac struggle in the regular season.

But in my opinion, the more it last in camp the less good it is for Mac. If their plan is to have Mac start no matter what, he needs the reps. In any team with a clear starter and a clear backup, it’s 75% of the reps for the starters and 25% for the backup.

 

[sb1]

The Bills have had arguably the most talented roster in the AFC for years running now and can't get to that final game... and they supposedly have a golden elite franchise caliber QB under center. It's hard to win a ring.

Every rookie player needs to prove themselves, Mac, Zappe, all the kids drafted this year. The notion Mac just gets accepted as "starter" because of his draft position is nonsense. Even if Mac wins the job out of camp, is his job safe if he starts throwing interceptions again?Oops, there was an error! | PatriotsFans

Show me... everyone in this league needs to prove it.

I'd say this HC in particular would not hand anyone a job because of their draft position.