We are posted as the #2 likely suspect for Lamar?

[crawhammer]

If you tell Crawdaddy that Mahomes, Burrows and Herbert were better passers than Tom Brady at the same age, he would tell you it was a different game back then so stats are inflated now.

How many seasons are we comparing? And are you saying better passers (i.e. actual throwing of the football) or they have more prolific stats?

If you tell him Cunningham and Vick played in a different era and the rules were different, so stats are inflated now... he will simply tell you Lamar Jackson is a better passer. There's no consistency anywhere, it's all bias dependent.

No, I didn't do that. Any idiot knows 'the eras' are a factor. Unlike you, I suppose, I still think it's entirely fair to compare players across multiple eras. Lamar is better than Cunningham, I'll give you a massive explanation for saying that if you'd like, or I can just declare it while referencing a few obvious items and leave it at that.

 

[Wozzy]

How many seasons are we comparing? And are you saying better passers (i.e. actual throwing of the football) or they have more prolific stats?

I'm saying the NFL was a completely different game when Cunningham, Vick and (early) Brady played back when. Suggesting Lamar's stats now are indicative of how he would have looked back when defensive ends could slaughter QB's, when defensive backs could mug WR's in coverage or strong safeties like Ronnie Lott or Steve Atwater could level receivers trying to catch ball over the middle of the field is laughable.

Percentages, volume stats and scoring were way lower back then for a reason. Lamar's stats back in that era would have looked exactly like Michael Vick's or Cunningham's.

No, I didn't do that. Any idiot knows 'the eras' are a factor. Unlike you, I suppose, I still think it's entirely fair to compare players across multiple eras. Lamar is better than Cunningham, I'll give you a massive explanation for saying that if you'd like, or I can just declare it while referencing a few obvious items and leave it at that.

Cunningham is dealing with debilitating injuries Lamar will never deal with because hitting the QB wasn't just allowed back then, it was encouraged and lauded. Lamar is faster than Randall. Vick is a much better comparison player for Lamar, they could be twins. A bad pocket passer in any era, is still a bad pocket passer.

 

[RobertWeathers]

And I think he will. He's clearly trying to back Baltimore into a corner of having to make a trade and with that Lamar must realize he'll likely get less than the fully guaranteed contract that he's hanging (exclusively) over Baltimore's head.

Agree

Fair point but he also had his best season at age 35.

Yes

Cunningham is taller by 2 inches and they weigh the same. Lamar looks like he has the thinker frame.

Still injury prone.

We're talking different eras, so there are those various factors, but Lamar blows Randall away in career passing stats (cmp%, TD%, INT%, passer rating).

As you say. Different game. Are you going to say LJ is better than John Elway just because he had better "stats"?

 

[Fatmancryin]

This is creating a mess, ex and current Patriots players tweeting about Lamar now. Kraft should have never mentioned anything, either make it happen or squash the rumors asap.

I feel bad for Mac, dude is in a no win situation.

Which makes me believe they are preparing an offer. I would guess it would be after this years draft and give up 2 future picks rather than 14 this year.

Why bring it up at all. Makes absolutely no sense to create a rumor just so people don’t think you’re cheap and the coach/GM is?

 

[crawhammer]

As you say. Different game. Are you going to say LJ is better than John Elway just because he had better "stats"?

Elway is a QB I honestly struggle with evaluating. I think Elway and I think top 5 all time. Then I scrutinize his career and it becomes less convincing to me that he's an automatic top 5 all time. His teams were generally overmatched in the SB losses but HE was awful in those games. He stunk in the first SB win too. For his career he played much better in the conference playoff rounds. He's a 1x NFL MVP and his entire career he led the league one time in one main passing category (yards). He was an efficient runner but not prolific.

I think Lamar is a better athlete than Elway, and really the NFL has never seen another QB exactly like Lamar, but Elway is the better passing QB (taking into account pre-snap, reading defenses, progressions, decision making) and certainly at this point Elway ranks much higher than Lamar on the all time QB list.

 

[crawhammer]

Percentages, volume stats and scoring were way lower back then for a reason. Lamar's stats back in that era would have looked exactly like Michael Vick's or Cunningham's.

Ultimately you're guessing. Vick and Lamar are probably the better comparison based on style of play. We'll see where Lamar's career goes from here but I envision him finishing with a better career than Vick or Cunningham.

 

[Love The Drake]

Which makes me believe they are preparing an offer. I would guess it would be after this years draft and give up 2 future picks rather than 14 this year.

Why bring it up at all. Makes absolutely no sense to create a rumor just so people don’t think you’re cheap and the coach/GM is?

From the outside looking in we look dysfunctional.
Robert saying this, Bill saying that .
Kraft Saying he isn’t afraid to spend Bill has the say.
If I’m Bill am I tying myself to Lamar or Macs wagon.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Elway is a QB I honestly struggle with evaluating. I think Elway and I think top 5 all time. Then I scrutinize his career and it becomes less convincing to me that he's an automatic top 5 all time. His teams were generally overmatched in the SB losses but HE was awful in those games. He stunk in the first SB win too. For his career he played much better in the conference playoff rounds. He's a 1x NFL MVP and his entire career he led the league one time in one main passing category (yards). He was an efficient runner but not prolific.

Elway ran into a buzzsaw in the 86 Giants. One of the greatest defenses in NFL history. 89 49ers were hell on wheels. 87 'Skins were very good. That strike year was a mess. I don't blame him for those losses as he played on inferior teams. He finally was on well-rounded teams in the late 90s and did fine in the big games.

I'm not sure hes top 5 but def top 10. I know you think highly of Bradshaw. Same deal. Put him in the category of stats don't tell the whole story but what they represent is leadership, toughness, talent, decent numbers and individual success and a lot of winning and championships.

I think Lamar is a better athlete than Elway, and really the NFL has never seen another QB exactly like Lamar, but Elway is the better passing QB (taking into account pre-snap, reading defenses, progressions, decision making) and certainly at this point Elway ranks much higher than Lamar on the all time QB list.

LJ might be the best athlete to play QB. He, Vick, maybe Cunningham as well.

 

[Love The Drake]

Kyle Shanahan: None Of Our Three QBs Are Untouchable

49ers HC Kyle Shanahan said he has not told GM John Lynch that any of the three quarterbacks on their roster — Brock Purdy, Trey Lance and Sam Darnold— are untouchable if another team has

dlvr.it

 

[Love The Drake]

Niners jumping in the Lamar sweepstakes.

 

[crawhammer]

Niners jumping in the Lamar sweepstakes.

More than half of the NFL should be in on this sweepstakes. Lamar in San Francisco would make them the Super Bowl favorites.

 

[Wozzy]

Ultimately you're guessing. Vick and Lamar are probably the better comparison based on style of play. We'll see where Lamar's career goes from here but I envision him finishing with a better career than Vick or Cunningham.

No, I'm roughly estimating, but the average number of yellow flags increased, the number of yards per season by QB's increased, the scoring increased and they actually made a movie with Will Smith about CTE called Concussion.

It wasn't all in my imagination... I'm pretty sure.

 

[crawhammer]

Kyle Shanahan: None Of Our Three QBs Are Untouchable

49ers HC Kyle Shanahan said he has not told GM John Lynch that any of the three quarterbacks on their roster — Brock Purdy, Trey Lance and Sam Darnold— are untouchable if another team has

dlvr.it

Sounds like they would be open to a Brady unretirement 2.0

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Elway is a QB I honestly struggle with evaluating. I think Elway and I think top 5 all time. Then I scrutinize his career and it becomes less convincing to me that he's an automatic top 5 all time. His teams were generally overmatched in the SB losses but HE was awful in those games. He stunk in the first SB win too. For his career he played much better in the conference playoff rounds. He's a 1x NFL MVP and his entire career he led the league one time in one main passing category (yards). He was an efficient runner but not prolific.

I think Lamar is a better athlete than Elway, and really the NFL has never seen another QB exactly like Lamar, but Elway is the better passing QB (taking into account pre-snap, reading defenses, progressions, decision making) and certainly at this point Elway ranks much higher than Lamar on the all time QB list.

Hes a better Jeff George without Terrell Davis. I think people romanticize with Elway and his past. Very good QB but top 5-10? Hes in that 15-20 range for me.

 

[crawhammer]

Jeff George was strictly a pocket passer. He and Elway had totally different styles, and Elway did much more with his legs, you can't discount that.

George gets a really bad rep because he was a total disaster for Indianapolis. He had some decent seasons after he left Indy. He played great in the '99 postseason too, he and Warner went off in the divisional round matchup, 86 points, 9 TDs, 800+ passing yards.

 

[Vindicate]

The dark side wants you to believe that my friend!!! Come join the lord of light!!!

"Āeksios Ōño, aōhos ōñoso ilōn jehikās! Āeksios Ōño, ilōn misās! Kesrio syt bantis zābrie issa se ossȳngnoti lēdys!"

Jackson came from a EP variation at Louisville

So, is it he worth it under that style of play? Or would you want us to move towards the kinda offense they run in Baltimore? I'm unfamiliar with what it's called, I just know it requires two versatile TE's it seems like. I'm unsure what it calls for from a blocking scheme perspective (how the OL would have to play/change)

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Jackson is looking for a five year deal at the very top of the market for QBs fully guaranteed. I don't think anyone is overblowing his injuries in this scenario. You absolutely have to take into affect the fact he has had significant injuries over the last two years when thinking about signing or trading for him.

I think if anything is clear it's that no one knows what Lamar really wants for money. No one. I'm sure he's looking to cash in on his only enormous contract by sports standards but that changes with different teams, different levels of talent etc. I highly doubt he has one number-one deal in mind and has some flexibility. I wouldn't be very flexible with Balty after what they've done either.
Injuries are a factor, for sure but a certain group of people are leading with that every time a discussion comes up. You can't ignore the magnitude of the situation for Jackson this year with the ****tshow that was Balty these past few years.

Mac is a completely different story. He is still on a rookie deal and can easily be cut or traded with minimal impact on the team's cap if he turns out to be injury prone. If Jackson continues to miss about a third of the season every year due to injuries, the Patriots are screwed because they cannot cut bait with him without serious salary cap ramifications for about four years.

Is Mac injury prone if he misses 4 games this year??


Jackson is the best QB in the league multiple times a year. He's not perfect but one of the best duel threats the league has ever seen. You're gambling on someone either way. I'd rather strike out on great or swinging for the fences. As opposed to hitting singles or doubles with average. Especially in the AFC. Squeaking by with average-above average isn't how you win in this league.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

So, is it he worth it under that style of play? Or would you want us to move towards the kinda offense they run in Baltimore? I'm unfamiliar with what it's called, I just know it requires two versatile TE's it seems like. I'm unsure what it calls for from a blocking scheme perspective (how the OL would have to play/change)

He is the system. He could walk into a lot of different schemes and hit a home run. Baltimore was on the right path but Roman's system isn't one known for evolving much, if at all.

Bobby ran an EP variation with some zone read and relied on mostly "pocket passers" until Lamar. Jackson is very familiar with the verbiage, option routes, timing etc

Baltimore just did it one way. That's not to say he couldn't excel in a different system. Especially one he's familiar and somewhat used to.

One of the Pats biggest needs has been blocking TE for a few years now. Get him a legit inline blocker that can catch - few of those in this year's class. We need one big time regardless it's hurting this offense.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Jeff George was strictly a pocket passer. He and Elway had totally different styles, and Elway did much more with his legs, you can't discount that.

George gets a really bad rep because he was a total disaster for Indianapolis. He had some decent seasons after he left Indy. He played great in the '99 postseason too, he and Warner went off in the divisional round matchup, 86 points, 9 TDs, 800+ passing yards.

Jeff George was a me-first loser. There is a reason he played on 5 different teams.

To consider he is in the same discussion as Elway is moronic.

There is more to quarterbacking than stats.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Jackson is the best QB in the league multiple times a year. He's not perfect but one of the best duel threats the league has ever seen. You're gambling on someone either way. I'd rather strike out on great or swinging for the fences. As opposed to hitting singles or doubles with average. Especially in the AFC. Squeaking by with average-above average isn't how you win in this league.

I agree with this 100%. If you're going to take a gamble, why not gamble on greatness?

Like it or not New England has set a standard that is very high, it's championship or bust to be considered a successful season.

At the very least you need to make a deep playoff run, with promise that you can get back to the top of the mountain if you add a couple of the right pieces the next season.

Lamar Jackson represents that homerun swing. Go for the fences, GO BIG or Go home!

Will it happen? Unknown, but there's a lot of smoke and there might be real fire behind these rumors. We'll just have to wait and see but it would be really exciting if we get a real gamechanger at the QB position for once.

We haven't had that since TB12 left town and won a championship for another team...