The optimistic case for Mac Jones

[crawhammer]

If that were true, why didn't the Pats win a Superbowl with Brady in 2019? That team had a historically great defense by DVOA but Brady's excellence wasn't enough, especially given the loss of the GOAT tight end and after Kraft canned Antonio Brown.

This is a testament to Brady's greatness. Any season he didn't win a Super Bowl, everyone wants to know WTF happened?! He went to 10 and won 7 in 21 seasons, I think that's amazing enough.

And by the way, that 2019 "Boogeymen" defense got exposed by the end of the season. They completely ruined their playoff seeding when they couldn't stop Ryan Fitzpatrick after Brady staked them with a 4-point lead late in week 17. Then they lost to a team that completed 9 passes.

 

[Joker]

This is a testament to Brady's greatness. Any season he didn't win a Super Bowl, everyone wants to know WTF happened?! He went to 10 and won 7 in 21 seasons, I think that's amazing enough.

And by the way, that 2019 "Boogeymen" defense got exposed by the end of the season. They completely ruined their playoff seeding when they couldn't stop Ryan Fitzpatrick after Brady staked them with a 4-point lead late in week 17. Then they lost to a team that completed 9 passes.

laughs...this is a pretty good troll. I suspect the repeating beacon that is Mac10 to appear before long with tales of losses to Eli Manning and Mark Sanchez...

 

[RIpats88]

You respond to someone questioning Zappes arm strength by moaning about Macs interceptions? Its like playground sometimes on here.

Complete with the childish name-calling "corky!!"

 

[Triumph]

We already did this.

Two throws, both air distance of 20yds (Zappe's is 21). Jones is nearly flat footed and fires a throw without needing to take much of a step, Zappe had to crow-hop and gun it:





Again, Mac had a full offseason and a year headstart on Zappe to get stronger. Maybe that will change, but Mac does have the edge strength-wise.

I am not implying that Corky Mac cant complete a long pass or two.

He cant and does not complete long throws consistently. Its so ridiculous. The Pats had the ball with seconds remaining in the Raiders game and Jones did not have the ball. The Pats did not trust him in that situation. Virtually every other NFL starting QB is throwing there to get in FG range. Ditto for the Bengals game.

You folks state that Jones has a good arm when all last offseason the story was that Jones was working with Tom House to increase VELOCITY. Velocity is arm strength and Jones did not show improvement in that area in the first 3 games of 2022. 2 TDs and 5 TDs were the end result of the new and improved Corky Jones. After his injury the Pats clearly stopped letting Jones throw deep. WHY? Because he lacks the arm to make those types of throws. His TD vs the Steelers was another INT except that Agahlor took the ball from the Pittsburgh DB.

Now after 2 starts you all are telling me that Zappe has a worst arm than Jones after people complained that Zappe was in a different offense than Jones. Fans of Mac already know that Zappe does not have the arm, but Jones is better.

Here we are again and what's Jones working on? His arm and velocity. But, but, but Jones already has a good arm. Watch the 7 videos of his throws like John Elway.

 

[sb1]

Now after 2 starts you all are telling me that Zappe has a worst arm than Jones after people complained that Zappe was in a different offense than Jones. Fans of Mac already know that Zappe does not have the arm, but Jones is better.

Zappe did not have an NFL caliber arm in college that's why he fell all the way to the 4th round and likely further than that if the Patriots didn't draft him. Saw nothing in the preseason and in his 4 game stint to tell me his arm is any better than it was in college.

Until that changes he is not an NFL caliber starting QB.

 

[Rob0729]

I am not implying that Corky Mac cant complete a long pass or two.

He cant and does not complete long throws consistently. Its so ridiculous. The Pats had the ball with seconds remaining in the Raiders game and Jones did not have the ball. The Pats did not trust him in that situation. Virtually every other NFL starting QB is throwing there to get in FG range. Ditto for the Bengals game.

You folks state that Jones has a good arm when all last offseason the story was that Jones was working with Tom House to increase VELOCITY. Velocity is arm strength and Jones did not show improvement in that area in the first 3 games of 2022. 2 TDs and 5 TDs were the end result of the new and improved Corky Jones. After his injury the Pats clearly stopped letting Jones throw deep. WHY? Because he lacks the arm to make those types of throws. His TD vs the Steelers was another INT except that Agahlor took the ball from the Pittsburgh DB.

Now after 2 starts you all are telling me that Zappe has a worst arm than Jones after people complained that Zappe was in a different offense than Jones. Fans of Mac already know that Zappe does not have the arm, but Jones is better.

Here we are again and what's Jones working on? His arm and velocity. But, but, but Jones already has a good arm. Watch the 7 videos of his throws like John Elway.

Jones did complete long throws consistently. In fact, it was probably his strength this year. I found this where he was 10th in the league in deep ball accuracy and 8th in deep ball catchability rate in 2022. And that was even with the miserable start of the season where he and his receivers were completely on the wrong page. Jones was above average with deep ball passing which is incredible considering the cluster **** the offense was. And I bet if you did these stats from Thanksgiving on, Jones would be much higher.

ADVANCED ACCURACY

RED ZONE ACCURACY RATING	DEEP BALL ACCURACY RATING	UNDER PRESSURE ACCURACY RATING	CLEAN POCKET ACCURACY RATING	DEEP BALL CATCHABLE PASS RATE	PRESSURED CATCHABLE PASS RATE	CATCHABLE PASS RATE
6.8	6.1	5.6	7.6	64.7%	63.4%	80.1%
#16	#10	#23	#22	#8	#11	#11

Mac Jones Stats & Fantasy Ranking - PlayerProfiler

Mac Jones player profile featuring career stats, fantasy ranking, & analytics data. See combine scores, SPARQ, measurables, and comparable players.

www.playerprofiler.com

The ironic thing about the stats are that Jones' product is almost flipped. A lot of the stuff he did well in 2021, he was below average or sucked in 2022 and visa versa.

Again, if Jones could combine what he did really well in 2021 with what he did really well in 2022, he will be a top 10 QB in this league.

 

[sb1]

What a great play by Zappe. Rocket arm. "Noodle arm Mac" should be benched for this guy today.

 

[Rob0729]

What a great play by Zappe. Rocket arm. "Noodle arm Mac" should be benched for this guy today.

This play looks another example how the Bears may have exposed Zappe. Notice the Bears really didn't pass rush on this play. They were more concerned about clogging the passing lanes for Zappe. Zappe seemed to have trouble getting the ball through the scrum in front of him. The Bears told reports that was the strategy to not rush him and clog the passing lanes. Roquan Smith's INT was due to that. He had four balls tipped that game.

Here is the Smith INT and watch the lines. The Bears aren't even trying to rush Zappe.

 

[Pape]

This play looks another example how the Bears may have exposed Zappe. Notice the Bears really didn't pass rush on this play. They were more concerned about clogging the passing lanes for Zappe. Zappe seemed to have trouble getting the ball through the scrum in front of him. The Bears told reports that was the strategy to not rush him and clog the passing lanes. Roquan Smith's INT was due to that. He had four balls tipped that game.

Here is the Smith INT and watch the lines. The Bears aren't even trying to rush Zappe.

Zappe is like 5 foot 6 and cant see over his linemen is what you are saying... okay i fibbed a bit, he's 6-1 per his stat sheet/pfr... which means hes not quite 6'1"... so hes probably about as tall as drew brees was... that is a hindrance in todays game...

 

[40yrpatsfan]

0 TDs & 3 INTs. This is the game we're looking at for "upside"?

just a good example of where stats are completely misleading. Mac looked extremely good in that game, I think it may have been his best game given the quality of the opponent.

 

[PatsFan2]

This play looks another example how the Bears may have exposed Zappe. Notice the Bears really didn't pass rush on this play. They were more concerned about clogging the passing lanes for Zappe. Zappe seemed to have trouble getting the ball through the scrum in front of him. The Bears told reports that was the strategy to not rush him and clog the passing lanes. Roquan Smith's INT was due to that. He had four balls tipped that game.

Here is the Smith INT and watch the lines. The Bears aren't even trying to rush Zappe.

Hurts - Purdy and Zappe are the same height and weight. One bad game by the entire Team is now an indictment on Zappe's career trajectory. Can't wait until the First Ballot HOFer Mac punches his ticket to Canton.

 

[sb1]

Hurts - Purdy and Zappe are the same height and weight. One bad game by the entire Team is now indictment on Zappe's career. Can't wait until the First Ballot HOFer Mac punches his ticket to Canton.

Zappe had 1 good game (even though he relied on YAC to get yards), 2 meh games and one awful game. To go along with a lousy preseason.

That's not a track record that ought to get the starter benched.

 

[PatsFan2]

This play looks another example how the Bears may have exposed Zappe. Notice the Bears really didn't pass rush on this play. They were more concerned about clogging the passing lanes for Zappe. Zappe seemed to have trouble getting the ball through the scrum in front of him. The Bears told reports that was the strategy to not rush him and clog the passing lanes. Roquan Smith's INT was due to that. He had four balls tipped that game.

Here is the Smith INT and watch the lines. The Bears aren't even trying to rush Zappe.

I almost forgot that Bears Defense exposed a lot of QB's 2022 you can tell from that 3-14 record which lead to the First pick in the Draft.

 

[Rob0729]

Hurts - Purdy and Zappe are the same height and weight. One bad game by the entire Team is now an indictment on Zappe's career trajectory. Can't wait until the First Ballot HOFer Mac punches his ticket to Canton.

Purdy is a far more mobile QB than Zappe. If you are going to be short, you gotta be able to move around in and outside the pocket.

And you are saying that one good game and two other games where Zappe was asked to not do much and you think he is better than Mac Jones.

I am sorry, but a short pure pocket passer is probably not going to make it as a starting QB.

 

[Rob0729]

I almost forgot that Bears Defense exposed a lot of QB's 2022 you can tell from that 3-14 record which lead to the First pick in the Draft.

That makes the fact that they were so easily to defend Zappe in the second half is so damning. They were not a good defense and they tipped four of Zappe's balls at the line and got two INTs from him.

 

[sb1]

I almost forgot that Bears Defense exposed a lot of QB's 2022 you can tell from that 3-14 record which lead to the First pick in the Draft.

Then it doesn't say much for Zappe that he fell back to earth against that defense.

 

[crawhammer]

just a good example of where stats are completely misleading. Mac looked extremely good in that game, I think it may have been his best game given the quality of the opponent.

Ravens had the 26th ranked pass defense. That's not a high quality opponent. I keep hearing Lamar Jackson can't throw a football but he had 4 TD passes and only 1 INT in this game. He also ran for 107 yards on only 11 carries and added a rushing TD. Mac throws 3 picks with a 62.2 passer rating and he was "extremely good" and had his "best game of the season." WTF?!

 

[PatsFan2]

Then it doesn't say much for Zappe that he fell back to earth against that defense.

I will just throw this out there that Bailey Zappe can improve form one year to the next it's not far fetched.

 

[PatsFan2]

Ravens had the 26th ranked pass defense. That's not a high quality opponent. I keep hearing Lamar Jackson can't throw a football but he had 4 TD passes and only 1 INT in this game. He also ran for 107 yards on only 11 carries and added a rushing TD. Mac throws 3 picks with a 62.2 passer rating and he was "extremely good" and had his "best game of the season." WTF?!

You'll be beating dead horse with them I tell ya.

 

[crawhammer]

Then it doesn't say much for Zappe that he fell back to earth against that defense.

Mac got benched against that same Chicago defense. Zappe had a really good game @CLE the week before so he never should have been on the bench for the start of that Chicago game. Whatever BB's plan was, it was stupid, and it totally backfired because they got smoked by the worst team in the NFL (who went 0-10 after this game). Mac looked terrible, and after Zappe provided an initial spark, the whole team went in the toilet. Zappe didn't get another snap for the rest of the season. They went 3-0 against more garbage (NYJ x2 and IND) before finishing out the season 2-5 against better competition.

O'Brien practically needs to be a miracle worker and they need a really solid off-season bolstering the WR corps. Aside from that, they should have an open competition in camp for the QB1 spot. I don't believe Mac has done enough to have earned the automatic starting gig.