We're on to the OFF-Season

[upstater1]

Is that a rhetorical?? Here's a question for you what's our hit rate with choir boy WR's?? Waiting...

Troy Brown, M Mitchell, David Givens, Deion Branch, Julian Edelman (didn't grab butt, that was a lie), all good character guys.

 

[RobertWeathers]

The pick was incomplete. I would've like to have seen him play more than one season - that's all. Again, he said he couldn't cut at all after the ACL tear. If you can't run, you can't play.

If CJ had a career-ending injury, maybe. Problem is he came back in 07 and 08, he signed with DEN and BUF later on and was cut again. Players come back from ACLs all the time. The dude just wasn't NFL material.

 

[signbabybrady]

That's fine



That's a you problem.



Every one of the coaches I mentioned has an argument. That you can't see, and acknowledge that, is another you problem. And your Walsh argument is ridiculous. Walsh won 3 titles in 10 years, and left when his team was on top.

Maybe I missed your list there are a few other fan bases that have coaches who can make a case too.


You case for Walsh seems silly so what if Walsh won 3 in ten years. He didn't stick around. BB stuck around and doubled that. end of debate. Your case seems to be that BB could have tied Walsh if he just retired in 2010 but by sticking around and winning 3 more and then having a few sub par seasons should hurt his case.

I think I'm done with this debate you can think their are better coaches than Bill if you want. And you can use whatever logic you choose to justify its all subjective.

I choose to focus on 6 super bowls and the fact no one else even close.

 

[venecol]

If Breer is right (I know I’m walking into a trap by the mere words), and there is a disconnect between young NE players and the coaches, I would want a post 2009 reset. Regardless, I’d love to see the team approach this offseason like that one. Restart, find a good core that will buy in, move on from detractors.

Some will suggest to keep the players and move on from the aging coach(es). But I’d be more interested in seeing how the team would perform if a few of the malcontents move on. If disfunction and lack of success continue, then more scrutiny is required from the owners.

I think that we can't ignore the possibility that the older coaches can't reach these younger kids. We've seen how Bill has softened his approach these last few years. That's not a coincidence. We hear how he's now calling players individually. We've witnessed him putting up w/ un-Patriot like behavior by the players on SM. And now, the last two dinosaurs from the Dynasty are probably retiring, not that they were that effective but they helped. JE11 mentioned how these younger players are "different."

I've been saying this all along. Bill is from the Boomer I generation. His ways no longer work with these kids. I know many believe that coaching is coaching, but in Bill's system it requires buy-in to his ways. Unless Bill jumps into SM, starts having daily individual conversations about their lives, and allows the players time to express their emotions, it won't matter. I don't see him doing even one of these things. It's over. He should dedicate himself to working out of the FO. His football knowledge is still valuable. Bring in a 40- / 50-something yo coach and start over. The sooner the better.

 

[PowerRunRevival]

There's no excuse with Hopkins. His cap hits are reasonable, his age will probably put his trade value as a 2nd round pick & he's played in the pats offense under BOB before. He also has a no trade clause. He should be the replacement for Meyers as the #1 option who can play inside & out. Bourne, Parker & Thornton fall into place as secondary receiving options.

A second round pick for him would be a steal! Honestly I'd be happy if they gave up more than a second for him. His hands are like glu and he runs great routes. He should be relatively fresh after playing a shortened season last year.

I don't know how his relationship with BoB is because I believe he was mad when O'brien traded him (if OB became our OC). It does seem like he has a solid relationship with Belichick based on the video they showed during the game of them speaking.

 

[archstanton543]

I think that we can't ignore the possibility that the older coaches can't reach these younger kids. We've seen how Bill has softened his approach these last few years. That's not a coincidence. We hear how he's now calling players individually. We've witnessed him putting up w/ un-Patriot like behavior by the players on SM. And now, the last two dinosaurs from the Dynasty are probably retiring, not that they were that effective but they helped. JE11 mentioned how these younger players are "different."

I've been saying this all along. Bill is from the Boomer I generation. His ways no longer work with these kids. I know many believe that coaching is coaching, but in Bill's system it requires buy-in to his ways. Unless Bill jumps into SM, starts having daily individual conversations about their lives, and allows the players time to express their emotions, it won't matter. I don't see him doing even one of these things. It's over. He should dedicate himself to working out of the FO. His football knowledge is still valuable. Bring in a 40- / 50-something yo coach and start over. The sooner the better.

I agree with that. I mentioned during the last game that McDermott (who was understandably emotional, granted) was probably resonating with his players better than BB. I'm not saying he should be "rah-rah" every positive play but a little emotion on the sideline would go a long way. I know that's not really his personality (he seems to have a very dry wit and comes off as unemotional unless it's at the end of a championship game) but with younger players these days, that might not play.

 

[Ross12]

Hopkins, to Belichick: "I love you man... I do my job."

I mean... sounds like Bill's already sold him, just gotta get in touch with AZ.

 

[Deus Irae]

What's interesting is that BB's winning % was at .683 in 2019 and has dropped to .662 in 3 seasons. At that rate, in 3 more seasons he could drop below Reid or even Tomlin while still not catching Shula.

Well, that will happen when you move on from the G.O.A.T..

 

[PowerRunRevival]

I think that we can't ignore the possibility that the older coaches can't reach these younger kids. We've seen how Bill has softened his approach these last few years. That's not a coincidence. We hear how he's now calling players individually. We've witnessed him putting up w/ un-Patriot like behavior by the players on SM. And now, the last two dinosaurs from the Dynasty are probably retiring, not that they were that effective but they helped. JE11 mentioned how these younger players are "different."

I've been saying this all along. Bill is from the Boomer I generation. His ways no longer work with these kids. I know many believe that coaching is coaching, but in Bill's system it requires buy-in to his ways. Unless Bill jumps into SM, starts having daily individual conversations about their lives, and allows the players time to express their emotions, it won't matter. I don't see him doing even one of these things. It's over. He should dedicate himself to working out of the FO. His football knowledge is still valuable. Bring in a 40- / 50-something yo coach and start over. The sooner the better.

Don't the position coaches deal with the players more than the head coach? I think if he hires good assistant coaches and coordinators that can interact with the gen Z players then I don't think a boomer style is much of a problem. IMO, the team overachieved due to their coaching compared to their talent, the last years before this one which is why I blame the assistants more than Bill.

It's a testament to my appreciation for Bill Belichick that you have this millennial out here defending a boomer's way of doing things. I'm not a fan of boomers at all, but I have had good boomer managers that know the field I'm in. I still think Bill has the expertise to be a good manager of the coaches if the coaches don't suck.

 

[SlowGettingUp]

I've been saying this all along. Bill is from the Boomer I generation. His ways no longer work with these kids.

Actually a lot of the players drafted in the last couple of years have flourished under Belichick.

Looking back on the year, I think the big misstep was Patricia trying to institute an outside-zone running system. He knew from a defense perspective that it was hard to defend when well run, but he completely underestimated how hard it is to institute. It's not wham-bang for the OL like they were used to, it's more ballet. The OL players here weren't suited for it and he certainly didn't have the expertise to train them. Then switching Wynn around which clearly pissed him off - he never played well on the other side. Once the OL was undermined, there went the first chunk of the season.

 

[turkeyneck]

Hopkins, to Belichick: "I love you man... I do my job."

He already knows the secret handshake.

Seriously, I've been stuck with the Texans feed for years now so saw a lot of Hopkins. I always thought he'd be a perfect fit with Brady. Didn't see much of him lately; has he still got his legs?

 

[venecol]

Don't the position coaches deal with the players more than the head coach? I think if he hires good assistant coaches and coordinators that can interact with the gen Z players then I don't think a boomer style is much of a problem. IMO, the team overachieved due to their coaching compared to their talent, the last years before this one which is why I blame the assistants more than Bill.

It's a testament to my appreciation for Bill Belichick that you have this millennial out here defending a boomer's way of doing things. I'm not a fan of boomers at all, but I have had good boomer managers that know the field I'm in. I still think Bill has the expertise to be a good manager of the coaches if the coaches don't suck.

Sure position coaches help but they already have those and we've never seen so many mistakes being made, lack of focus, lack of buy-in, dysfunction, etc. as in the last three seasons.

Remember when Slater came out with that statement about the locker room a year or 2 ago, that a few of us surmised there were issues between players and coaches, but most blew us off as being wrong? This has been going on for a while. Every season that goes by you'll get even younger players. BTW, this has nothing to do with Bill's ability as a coach. He's still a good coach (knowledge wise), but it's about the buy-in or motivation of the players.

 

[Deus Irae]

You case for Walsh seems silly so what if Walsh won 3 in ten years. He didn't stick around. BB stuck around and doubled that. end of debate.

Ok, this absurd take of yours tells me all I need to know. You have no intention of even trying to think even remotely reasonably. So I'll just end with this note:


From 1961-1967, Lombardi won 5 titles in 7 years with the Packers.

 

[venecol]

Actually a lot of the players drafted in the last couple of years have flourished under Belichick.

Looking back on the year, I think the big misstep was Patricia trying to institute an outside-zone running system. He knew from a defense perspective that it was hard to defend when well run, but he completely underestimated how hard it is to institute. It's not wham-bang for the OL like they were used to, it's more ballet. The OL players here weren't suited for it and he certainly didn't have the expertise to train them. Then switching Wynn around which clearly pissed him off - he never played well on the other side. Once the OL was undermined, there went the first chunk of the season.

Yes, of course there are a lot of things that contribute to the end results. I'm talking about the overall motivation and focus of the players the last 3 seasons. Just sooo many mistakes. Across all 3 units. Too many men on the field on D or O, fumbles, delays of game, blocked punts galore, etc. Then sprinkle all the drama on top. Is it the lack of talent of the players? Is it the coaching? Or is it that Bill can't get these guys to play the way they need to, which to me = motivation.

 

[signbabybrady]

Ok, this absurd take of yours tells me all I need to know. You have no intention of even trying to think even remotely reasonably.

Your take is the absurd one. Brady is the best of all time and Montana is the second best. BB won twice as Many SBs and went to 3 times as many.

I think there are a few coaches and fanbases who can try and debate BB as goat but Walsh is not one of them.

 

[Sciz]

I wonder how much Hopkins will use that no trade clause in order to rank his trade value, maximize his new contract, and/or force his way to a specific team. I don’t think $30M per year is out of the question if that’s his only priority, and that alone would would out a lot of teams.

 

[venecol]

I wonder how much Hopkins will use that no trade clause in order to rank his trade value, maximize his new contract, and/or force his way to a specific team. I don’t think $30M per year is out of the question if that’s his only priority, and that alone would would out a lot of teams.

It's difficult to guess at what motivates a player like Hopkins. He's already made >$120M and can easily make another $60M.

With just one more 1000 yard season he passes AB for #24 all time in receiving yards. Only active player ahead of him is Julio (#16) who he can pass in 3 years. He's a 5-time Pro Bowler, 3-time AP-1, twice AP-2. He's on track for a HOF career. He's missing a SB though.

I would think he wants a SB more than $$. Obviously he's not playing for chump change, but if the diff. is between $25M/yr and $20M/yr with a contender, he probably picks the contender.

Or maybe he loves Bill so much he wants to play for him for less money and to hell with the SB and stats.

 

[Ross12]

I wonder how much Hopkins will use that no trade clause in order to rank his trade value, maximize his new contract, and/or force his way to a specific team. I don’t think $30M per year is out of the question if that’s his only priority, and that alone would would out a lot of teams.

They can simply cut him and save $8M in cap space. None of his 2023 or 2024 money is guaranteed. However, he'd then be able to choose his own team as a free agent and get as big of a deal as possible - but then the Cardinals get no trade compensation. Since teams know they can just wait for him to get cut then they may not necessarily be inclined to send seriously high picks in a trade. I think a 2nd probably gets it done.

 

[JMC00]

Bill

 

[Love The Drake]

Concerned about PED suspension for Hopkins.