College VIDEO on Mac - the potential is clearly there - it’s frustrating

[Rob0729]

You took 5 clips to prove that Mac had awareness last year, calm down with the rewriting history point.

Awards don't mean nothing but they don't mean much, especially the QB pro bowl where he was an alternate. Are you going to ignore the last 5 games of the year (note 5 games, not 5 of his best plays)? Maybe DC's were on to something? Just maybe?

I posted opinions from unbiased experts too. I know you guys want to rewrite history (yes, it is an appropriate statement) and make it sound like Jones was a disaster last year, but he had good pocket presence last year. Everyone, but the Mac Haters agree on that.

You are free to post video or unbiased expert reviews that say that he was horrible in the pocket.

BTW, the videos I posted showed excellent pocket awareness with him being able to side step or step up right at the right moments to avoid the rush. If he truly had horrible pocket awareness, he would never be able to do that. Not even a handful of plays. You don't magically have excellent pocket awareness in a handful of plays if you have awful pocket presence and incapable of feeling the rush. It isn't a skill that comes and goes on its own. Either you have it or you don't. You can develop it by working on it or lose it through circumstances, but it doesn't come and go like that.

 

[Love The Drake]

I posted opinions from unbiased experts too. I know you guys want to rewrite history (yes, it is an appropriate statement) and make it sound like Jones was a disaster last year, but he had good pocket presence last year. Everyone, but the Mac Haters agree on that.

You are free to post video or unbiased expert reviews that say that he was horrible in the pocket.

BTW, the videos I posted showed excellent pocket awareness with him being able to side step or step up right at the right moments to avoid the rush. If he truly had horrible pocket awareness, he would never be able to do that. Not even a handful of plays. You don't magically have excellent pocket awareness in a handful of plays if you have awful pocket presence and incapable of feeling the rush. It isn't a skill that comes and goes on its own. Either you have it or you don't. You can develop it by working on it or lose it through circumstances, but it doesn't come and go like that.

Both Cowher and Jimmy Johnson said they would have benched Mac a long time ago.
That has to have weight.
Bill respects both of them.

 

[Hyped]

Brady had the magic of raising the level of the players around him Mac has shown the opposite.

Nope, check the 2006, 2009, and the 2019 seasons. Brady couldn’t elevate the guys around him.

Hell, even check out Brady in Tampa right now…no consistency on the OL…but not taking sacks like Mac because he is getting rid of the ball faster than any other QB in the league…and also threw two picks on Sunday.

Don’t get me wrong…the man is the best there ever was and ever will be…but he needed players just like any other QB.

Mac might need more “support”, but he is a far cry from how Bledsoe was. Let’s for a minute ASSUME that Mac had:

-No missed games to injury.
-A healthy OL all season.
-Bourne being given more reps.
-Parker not being knocked out.
-Damien Harris available for every game to share the load with Rham.
-No Meyers lateral play.
-A Dugger ST holding call.
-No Rham fumble.

I seriously believe this team would be 9-6 right now at worst……

 

[Rob0729]

I am a Mac Homer too, but I agree with most all of the posts. I think Mac was OK in the pocket last year, and awful this year. I think Mac can diagnose and read the defenses and process quickly. Mac is accurate too. So what is happening? Commonly people blame Patricia - somewhat true.

But I think the major issue is maturity. If Mac is immature we would see it everywhere, which we do. 1. Overreacting to an ankle sprain to get attention 2. Making cheap fouls on other players to express frustration 3. Snipping and yelling at coaches to deflect blame 4. Last year BB pulling on Mac's arm after a bad game to quickly encourage Mac. Signs of Mac's maturity problems are everywhere, even at Alabama Saban sat him for 3 years before starting him as a senior. Why does Mac kick other players? Cry on the field like he broke his leg? Have temper tantrums with coaches? His emotional issues lead to his panicking in the pocket, stress under pressure, happy feet that lead to bad technique, and on and on.

Mac has all the physical tools and intelligence to play the position, but he is still acting out like a child. The good news is he was better the last few games, not great but better, and if Mac can "turn the maturity corner" he will be a good to great NFL QB. Very smart intelligent people can be emotional basket cases.

I do agree that Mac has not handled himself well late this year. I do understand it a bit. He is being set up for failure (not intentionally) and Belichick has thrown him under the bus multiple times this year.

But Saban did start Jones over Bryce Young who had to sit until Jones graduated despite being such a highly rated prospect. And Jones lost out on the starting job because of Tua. And the last time Saban started a QB for more than a year or two was AJ McCarron. And Jalen Hurts was the only true freshman to start for Saban since McCarron. I think you may be reading too much into why Jones sat for so long.

 

[Rob0729]

Both Cowher and Jimmy Johnson said they would have benched Mac a long time ago.
That has to have weight.
Bill respects both of them.

For his attitude THIS YEAR. Neither of them said it about him last year.

 

[Rob0729]

From where I sit you’re just the other side of the coin. We have Mac homers and we have the anti-Mac contingent, of which you’re definitely a part. It’s not any more intelligent or thoughtful of a position that you’ve staked out.

I agree that I have gone overboard in my defense of Jones at times (or possibly more than times), but the haters cannot see they do the same thing I do. Part of my aggressive defense is due to my debating style.

But yes, for any accusation one side levels at the other, it is likely that side is just engaging in projection.

 

[Jim Beankie]

Just looking at his college highlights tonight comparing them to last year and what we've seen this season. I still feel like after watching both of these, we haven't seen his best yet. There's one play on the "National Championship highlights” where he looks right and comes all the way back to his left and makes a great throw:





Along with some things we haven't seen from him this year. Just a reminder that with a decent coordinator behind a good offensive line with some solid targets (that Alabama team was pretty stacked), he can get it done. Whether or not that ultimately can happen here is obviously the question. But after a solid rookie season, watching this is definitely frustrating. Unlike some of the others, the kid played in the SEC against solid competition. So it's not like he played against pushover teams.

Next year will obviously be a critical one for him ... but if it doesn't work out, it would definitely be irritating to see him potentially being this player again somewhere else. Watching some of the film breakdowns today of Sunday's game, definitely have to wonder what they'd be like with someone more competent handling the offense.

There was at least one example in the OSU Champ game when the line broke down a little, and the panicked Mac that we've been used to this year appeared (when imho he didn't need to). That being said, Mac continued to do well even when Heisman DSmith had to leave with an injury before the end of the half, and the Mac train kept rolling during that game, even with the hobbled Waddle. There were points early last season when Mac was close to the only positive part of this team. OL got cleaned up, and they went on that run. Everyone got ****y (and hurt) post bye, and the team self destructed. He can certainly be really good.

Zappe's being as good as he is, imho, has been a negative for Mac. Instead of lighting a fire, he's playing super conservative. He hasn't had an INT that was his "fault" (hit while throwing) since the Bears game (the did it hit the wire throw) over 2 months ago. Also the look back left throw in that OSU game was over 3.5 seconds. The great thing about Zappe is that there are already examples this year of his scanning the whole field under 2 secs post snap.

 

[Hyped]

Another thing….Hurts and Tagovailoa both have Smith and Waddle PLUS Hill and Brown….

Mac doesn’t have a receiver anywhere near as good as those four. I love Meyers….well…his lateral still pisses me off…but love him AND he isn’t as good as those four guys….

 

[Patriot Missile]

It’s been a terrible year for Mac and the coaches. The oline has been putrid so I can’t get a gauge on his read ability, whether it was time in the pocket etc. it was something he needed to improve on from last year and most qbs improve from one year to the next but he seemed to regress. Again, bad oline and coaching certainly didn’t help and probably hindered him. Hope it’s fixable.

Also what came to mind which I didn’t notice last year is his possible lack of arm strength. I’m not talking his deep throw. I’m talking simple short sideline throws. No zip on the ball and I pretty much cringe every time he throws one. Looks like a pick 6 just waiting to happen. Not sure if its accuracy, touch, poorly designed plays or just dude just has a noodle arm?

First things first, he needs good coaching. A better oline no matter what it takes. Maybe one or two true left tackles in this draft and they may need to move up to make it happen. Good interior prospects in the 2nd to middle rounds. Also, never seen Bill break the bank at the position but Nelson from the Colts could go a long way to insta improvement in the middle of this line.

 

[Jim Beankie]

The most outlandish part of this thread isn't that Alabama had superior weapons or protection but the idea that Mac has regressed due to coaching. These people completely ignore that Mac was dog **** for the last 5 games of last season with the same coach as the highlights Rob provided from the early part of the season. Maybe teams just figured out his tendencies?

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A big part of the regression was losing Agholor during the Colts game. Having N'Keal take his place (and not Wilkerson) during the Bills game was a colossal mistake. Having N'Keal come back from injury for the Dolphins game (instead of Wilkerson) was the same. That N'Keal Harry pick set them back years. It's not that he was bad. It's that he was a 1st round pick and BB went into Sunk Cost Fallacy mode, which is quite the opposite of a BB trait. He kept playing him over better players (like Jakobi). Going with Patty this year - oh well - a roll of the dice but it snakeeyebit him - cut losses and try again next year. If Patty comes back next year and shows more of the same, then that'll be jumping the shark.

 

[Ian]

For the record, the thought behind this thread is trying to understand aspects of Mac's game that we either haven't same or that he hasn't utilized. Those calling this a "Mac excuse thread", I guess go ahead and feel that way. The point is that we don't have an established veteran, we have a second-year rookie that you don't just discard unless his attitude sucks or he's absolutely terrible. Finding a QB in this league is difficult enough as it is, and after having QB royalty for two decades, we don't have that.

We also need to change the mindset of believing the next guy - Mac included - may or may not be here for 10+ years. If we keep bringing a guy in, seeing him have a good year, and then if he has issues in year two just going, "Meh, he's not the one [tosses him aside]," we're going to be in for a miserable run.

Tua is probably a great example. Upper management felt that way and went after Watson. Granted, their lack of being smart with Tagovailoa physically is probably going to end his career far sooner, but that was one where no one aside from Flores and his staff seemed to think much of him. Once Watson fell through, then they switched gears and surrounded him with better talent, and he turned into a better player. The same can be said with Josh Allen, albeit he has far better physical tools than similar guys who struggled in their second seasons. He's turned into an elite QB, which obviously is bad for us.

Simply put, Hall of Fame QBs don't fall into your laps very often. Elite guys don't, either. We need to accept the fact we're going to be dealing with "good" but not "great" and realize that going with just O.K. receivers in that situation isn't going to work, not if we're going to have a young quarterback. Hopefully, they can surround Mac, or whoever, with better talent. Hate to say it, but we're seeing it around the league and within the division as more and more teams start copying what the Chiefs did. We don't have Brady to nullify that edge anymore.

But cycling through QBs isn't the answer. If they discard Mac and we're left with Zappe, which, who knows how that might also turn out, then they're going to have to bring in another guy, and then another, and on and on it's going to go. I do think we'll be drafting QBs at the same rate as they did early with Brady to try and cover themselves, but they're going to have to stick with a guy for a few seasons while developing guys behind them before they move on to the next one. And that means the only way for this not to be a completely miserable experience is to give whoever the kid is that's struggling some benefit of the doubt.

And that's not an excuse. That's just now our reality.

 

[crawhammer]

The college results don't mean anything at this point. Just ask the Jets. But really you don't have to look that far.

 

[Ian]

The college results don't mean anything at this point. Just ask the Jets. But really you don't have to look that far.

Agree. And I wasn't looking at the results. I was looking at his play and what he was doing vs now.

 

[Ian]

Here's one example for those who talk about him not seeing the whole field:

I agree, we haven't seen as much of this. But the question sort of becomes, "Why?" and maybe it has to do with the fact there's not someone pushing him or forcing him to get back to being better about it.

I get "the great ones shouldn't need to be pushed" - but sometimes they still need to be coached.

 

[Ian]

This play sort of struck me too:

This one was a reminder that we've seen nothing inventive all year. I've said it repeatedly. No flea-flickers, no WR throws, nothing off-script, zero. And in a season where they needed to pull out all the stops, not even something as simple as this, which we've seen Kansas City and Buffalo do, and it's something he's obviously done.

 

[Ian]

And we see plays like this all the time around the league, and Mac has the arm for it:

But we don't have a WR who can win a one-on-one off the line like this. And Mac isn't Russell Wilson, but he's got enough of an arm and enough touch to get it downfield if he has time and the guy can get behind a cornerback.

 

[Ian]

Whatever - take it for what it's worth. But this is a discussion about trying to salvage a situation of a guy (who is a second-year player) who clearly had the ability coming out of college - and showed some of it at times last season. I just feel like we need to get the most we can out of him until there's a better solution, which is better than spending all day with thread after thread about how "he sucks." Especially knowing a lot of what's gone on behind the scenes that have contributed to these issues.

 

[JR52]

From where I sit you’re just the other side of the coin. We have Mac homers and we have the anti-Mac contingent, of which you’re definitely a part. It’s not any more intelligent or thoughtful of a position that you’ve staked out.

I wish Mac would do well so, in that, I'm pro-Mac. Unfortunately, I'm also pro-reality so, for that reason, I'm out on Mac.

How many games with multiple OC's do you need to realize he's just not it? Sure, we could have a deeper conversation (and if these pro-Mac threads are any indication, this discussion will occupy the offseason) about personnel, coaching, and DC's realizing he's a one trick pony so they are pressing and taking away his first option, but we will end up in the same place. The majority of people do not believe in Mac Jones. The other people will submit 5 clips out of 521 passes as evidence that certain aspects that are clear to everyone else aren't real. That isn't exactly thoughtful or intelligent either, but everyone deserves a voice so have at it.

 

[Steve102]

For the record, the thought behind this thread is trying to understand aspects of Mac's game that we either haven't same or that he hasn't utilized. Those calling this a "Mac excuse thread", I guess go ahead and feel that way. The point is that we don't have an established veteran, we have a second-year rookie that you don't just discard unless his attitude sucks or he's absolutely terrible. Finding a QB in this league is difficult enough as it is, and after having QB royalty for two decades, we don't have that.

We also need to change the mindset of believing the next guy - Mac included - may or may not be here for 10+ years. If we keep bringing a guy in, seeing him have a good year, and then if he has issues in year two just going, "Meh, he's not the one [tosses him aside]," we're going to be in for a miserable run.

Tua is probably a great example. Upper management felt that way and went after Watson. Granted, their lack of being smart with Tagovailoa physically is probably going to end his career far sooner, but that was one where no one aside from Flores and his staff seemed to think much of him. Once Watson fell through, then they switched gears and surrounded him with better talent, and he turned into a better player. The same can be said with Josh Allen, albeit he has far better physical tools than similar guys who struggled in their second seasons. He's turned into an elite QB, which obviously is bad for us.

Simply put, Hall of Fame QBs don't fall into your laps very often. Elite guys don't, either. We need to accept the fact we're going to be dealing with "good" but not "great" and realize that going with just O.K. receivers in that situation isn't going to work, not if we're going to have a young quarterback. Hopefully, they can surround Mac, or whoever, with better talent. Hate to say it, but we're seeing it around the league and within the division as more and more teams start copying what the Chiefs did. We don't have Brady to nullify that edge anymore.

But cycling through QBs isn't the answer. If they discard Mac and we're left with Zappe, which, who knows how that might also turn out, then they're going to have to bring in another guy, and then another, and on and on it's going to go. I do think we'll be drafting QBs at the same rate as they did early with Brady to try and cover themselves, but they're going to have to stick with a guy for a few seasons while developing guys behind them before they move on to the next one. And that means the only way for this not to be a completely miserable experience is to give whoever the kid is that's struggling some benefit of the doubt.

And that's not an excuse. That's just now our reality.

Good post.

There's far too many guys here who want to b!tch about this team, the coach, or the current QB. Granted, they have not been good this year, but the constant whining and complaining is tiresome.

I certainly feel that some of the so-called fans of this team are simply fans of winning.

 

[Ian]

I wish Mac would do well so, in that, I'm pro-Mac. Unfortunately, I'm also pro-reality so, for that reason, I'm out on Mac.

How many games with multiple OC's do you need to realize he's just not it? Sure, we could have a deeper conversation (and if these pro-Mac threads are any indication, this discussion will occupy the offseason) about personnel, coaching, and DC's realizing he's a one trick pony so they are pressing and taking away his first option, but we will end up in the same place. The majority of people do not believe in Mac Jones. The other people will submit 5 clips out of 521 passes as evidence that certain aspects that are clear to everyone else aren't real. That isn't exactly thoughtful or intelligent either, but everyone deserves a voice so have at it.

Again, not a Pro-Mac thread, it's actually just that - a pro-reality thread. This is what we're up against until they find the next guy. So the situation - and again, the point of this discussion - is how do we make the best of what we have until they find whoever the future guy is?