Game Day Thread Official Post Game Thread- Raiders beat the Pats

[SVN]

Players wondering if the jets lost after the game. probably not the mentality you want to have

 

[cmasspatsfan]

I do not think the outcome of this game has anything to do with the playoffs.

The only legit purpose of this year was to assess and develop the roster. We never had any chance at accomplishing anything in the playoffs, and very little chance of getting there.

Neither is it about some "missed call." It doesn't matter really. Focusing on it is an excuse, a distraction, from the core fact: this is a mediocre team which is so badly coached and marginally GM'd that there is little prospect of improvement. Nor is it about the collective brain fart that led to the gruesome ineptitude at game's end. Lousy teams just DO that sort of thing, and this - the REAL takeaway, once again - is a lousy team. They didn't get "robbed." They deprived themselves, from the beginning of the game to the end, of any opportunity to win it.

Nor is it about Mac Jones. It is a real question whether, given the idiotically mismanaged "coaching" staff, Mac has been afforded a legitimate chance at developing this year and showing what he can do. To this point, Mac has NOT, by any reasonable measure, shown that he is a worthwhile "franchise qb,"certainly, but we can draw no firm conclusion on this because the coaching has been so substandard. As for Zappe, he did earn a fuller evaluation, on the field, on game day; but he hasn't gotten it. Given this fact, and Mac's substandard work, there ought to be a genuine competition for qb next year, I suspect Mac would win that competion, but it might well show that neither of them is worth keeping.

The ball is in the Krafts' court. The issue, I say without any happiness at all, is Bill Belichick who, the evidence over the past few years shows, is no longer up to the job, at least as the Coach/GM job has been defined here for many years. He can't do it any more, and it is unclear in my mind - again, sadly - whether what he CAN do, whatever that may be, makes him worth holding on to.

There are, of course, a healthy number of sound and promising players on the team, and the team has shown resilience at times this year as a group in bouncing back from their too-frequent failures. Maybe in a way what I have said re Mac could be said of the team as a whole: we don't really know what they are because with respect to coaching, they have been so ill-served.

One final note: These are pretty dark times for this team. That's a fact. Given this, the asinine notion among certain mods and participants that any negative commentary re the team constitutes "trolling" has got to go. It's ridiculous, and offensive. We are not children subject to mandates that we limit ourselves to delusory happy talk. (And no, I personally have not been (so far? lol) accused of this so-called trangression, but others have: unnecessarily and unfairly, in my view.)

90% of the posts since the end of the game have been negative, trolling is different. They don't have a problem with negative posts otherwise this thread would be one page long.

 

[Twentytothree]

Edelman seems to care more than some on the current roster.

 

[JarOfMayo51]

Wasnt he thinking Mac would pass the ball?

ball already passed line of scrimmage, so Mac could only pass it laterally or backwards, he couldnt pass it forward

 

[Lavictoire]

I do not think the outcome of this game has anything to do with the playoffs.

The only legit purpose of this year was to assess and develop the roster. We never had any chance at accomplishing anything in the playoffs, and very little chance of getting there.

Neither is it about some "missed call." It doesn't matter really. Focusing on it is an excuse, a distraction, from the core fact: this is a mediocre team which is so badly coached and marginally GM'd that there is little prospect of improvement. Nor is it about the collective brain fart that led to the gruesome ineptitude at game's end. Lousy teams just DO that sort of thing, and this - the REAL takeaway, once again - is a lousy team. They didn't get "robbed." They deprived themselves, from the beginning of the game to the end, of any opportunity to win it.

Nor is it about Mac Jones. It is a real question whether, given the idiotically mismanaged "coaching" staff, Mac has been afforded a legitimate chance at developing this year and showing what he can do. To this point, Mac has NOT, by any reasonable measure, shown that he is a worthwhile "franchise qb,"certainly, but we can draw no firm conclusion on this because the coaching has been so substandard. As for Zappe, he did earn a fuller evaluation, on the field, on game day; but he hasn't gotten it. Given this fact, and Mac's substandard work, there ought to be a genuine competition for qb next year, I suspect Mac would win that competion, but it might well show that neither of them is worth keeping.

The ball is in the Krafts' court. The issue, I say without any happiness at all, is Bill Belichick who, the evidence over the past few years shows, is no longer up to the job, at least as the Coach/GM job has been defined here for many years. He can't do it any more, and it is unclear in my mind - again, sadly - whether what he CAN do, whatever that may be, makes him worth holding on to.

There are, of course, a healthy number of sound and promising players on the team, and the team has shown resilience at times this year as a group in bouncing back from their too-frequent failures. Maybe in a way what I have said re Mac could be said of the team as a whole: we don't really know what they are because with respect to coaching, they have been so ill-served.

One final note: These are pretty dark times for this team. That's a fact. Given this, the asinine notion among certain mods and participants that any negative commentary re the team constitutes "trolling" has got to go. It's ridiculous, and offensive. We are not children subject to mandates that we limit ourselves to delusory happy talk. (And no, I personally have not been (so far? lol) acI love BB butcused of this so-called trangression, but others have: unnecessarily and unfairly, in my view.)

I always admired and respected Bill Bellichick but he clearly seems to have a hands off, mail it in approach now. This team in the past never would allow bone-headed, sloppy plays and penalties like they do now. Even special teams was a point of pride. Where are the adjustments to any problem, usually done on the fly during game day, but surely fixed by the next game?Its like Bellichick no longer influences the team. the "Patriot Way" and "Do your Job" have disappeared.

 

[Triumph]

Question:
If they cave and put Zappe in there, and he proceeds to **** the bed like he did in Chicago, will that satisfy the Zappe crowd or will you start blaming the OL and OC, making excuses for him?

I won't blame Patricia, the OL,the WRs and TEs and Joe Judge. I will blame Zappe.

 

[venecol]

Dan Campbell is outcoaching BB this season. His guys are 100% bought in. Pats players are questioning coaches and going rogue.

What a f*cked up season. One of Bill's worse.

 

[venecol]

Finishing the season the first or 2nd week in January will not make a difference to what is decided on the roster and coaching staff.

We know the offense sucks and needs to be fixed
We know we still don't know if Mac is "The Guy" but it's trending to a "He Ain't"
We know Fat Matt needs to go and a professional NFL level OC needs to be hired
We know Cam Archord needs to go
We know BB needs to look in the freaking mirror and seriously ask himself if he should be coaching this team.
We know Bob and Jonathan should be seriously asking themselves if Bill should be coaching this team

We know things are really bad when the Author of the Port Huron Statement makes these statements. Lol

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Is Tee Higgins really worthy of a 1st & 3rd?

I look at compensation like that for truly elite WRs like AJ Brown, DeAndre Hopkins, etc... Tee Higgins is good, but is he a top elite tier WR?

Isn't Higgins a free agent? He's basically what peak Devante Parker is supposed to be.

I posed this question in my thread. Either Terry (which would realistically cost more), Aiyuk, Higgins and Pittman.

You're not getting a better WR through the draft and if you want Q Johnson you'll have to trade up more for a rookie. You're not getting a better WR in FA.

Higgins never had more than 110 targets and has always hoped or got 1K. 14 yards per clip and about 5-6 TD a year. Give him 140 targets and he's bringing in 1200/8 +. Pats have needed a true X for years and he fits our type. Already proven.

He's a FA in 24 I believe and Cincinnati has a lot of people to pay. Not many team spend 20+ per year on two WR. So in terms of realistic options, it's not farfetched at all.

I'm not married to it but honestly it's not a bad idea lol. We'd be lucky to get him for that and obv pay him 4/80.

Thank god you’re not our gm.

I mean we'd probably be in better shape if I was in the draft room but go on.

*edit*
If you think Terry is worth it than you have to feel the same way about Tee. If Tee had 130+ targets he's a legit #1 WR.

 

[Triumph]

Coffee Talk

My sister's physical therapist worked for the Patriots. Specifically with Gronk and his bad back which is also my sister's affliction. He left the pro sports field so he could spend more time with his family.

This PT knows the Krafts, has a Super Bowl ring and is still plugged in to the goings on inside Gillete.

The PT just told my sister that the consensus behind Pats closed doors is that Mac is a backup QB for a bad team.

Discuss amongst yourselves.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

And Patriots regular season games will be Blocked Out! to the locals I can see business man Kraft standing for that not. The Mac Jones era as a Starting QB should be over we have seen enough!

Not if @Kontradiction gets his way. I think he's onto something. Give Mac another year while you develop AR15. Anyway I can't take credit for his idea.

 

[SVN]

I always admired and respected Bill Bellichick but he clearly seems to have a hands off, mail it in approach now. This team in the past never would allow bone-headed, sloppy plays and penalties like they do now. Even special teams was a point of pride. Where are the adjustments to any problem, usually done on the fly during game day, but surely fixed by the next game?Its like Bellichick no longer influences the team. the "Patriot Way" and "Do your Job" have disappeared.

but are the players doing their job too ? have they to be told to not lateral pass in a tie game ? or not false start ? or not snap the ball when everyone is not set ? Coaches have messed it up but no one is doing their job. cant expand that to BB has mailed it in. we had the same situation in 2009 where BB openly said i cant get these players to play

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I always admired and respected Bill Bellichick but he clearly seems to have a hands off, mail it in approach now. This team in the past never would allow bone-headed, sloppy plays and penalties like they do now. Even special teams was a point of pride. Where are the adjustments to any problem, usually done on the fly during game day, but surely fixed by the next game?Its like Bellichick no longer influences the team. the "Patriot Way" and "Do your Job" have disappeared.

he’s handed off the entire team to Patricia, Judge, and his sons.

 

[SVN]

Perry: Reasons behind the blocked punt seem fitting for this Patriots team

The Patriots had another rough day on special teams Sunday in Las Vegas, as a blocked punt led to a late first-half touchdown for the Raiders. Our Phil Perry got to the bottom of the miscue after the game.

www.nbcsports.com

 

[venecol]

Wow. Things are really bad inside that locker room.

“Stay united,” Slater said. “You lose a game like this, a lot of teams turn on each other, start pointing fingers. There’s going to be people seeking to divide this team, seeking to tear it down, and we have to rise above all that.”

“We can’t be divided,” Slater said. “I think there will be a lot of folks throwing a lot of stones. We just have to keep believing in one another. We can’t turn on each other, and just stay the course. Obviously, it goes without saying, it’s tough losing a game like that, but it’s nobody’s fault. We win as a team, lose as a team and we’ve just got to keep fighting.”

Asked how the Patriots can avoid that division, Slater replied: “Don’t read what you guys write, don’t read what you guys report and just worry about what goes on inside of our walls.”

Yea right Matt, the young players will just turn off their SM.

 

[RobertWeathers]

We know things are really bad when the Author of the Port Huron Statement makes these statements. Lol

There are no sacred cows with me.

The problem is i'm OK with rebuilding. BB won't find a more patient fan than I.

I'm ok with going 4-13, 7-10 or 9-8. It takes time to procure championship-contending talent. I'm ok w/ that. If it was easy everyone would do it.

It's the WAY they are losing and playing these games (undisciplined, bad clock mgt, can't get plays in, dumb mistakes, regressing) and the people hired to fix them that has made me a detractor. I think they are playing hard and they care so that is a positive.

Heres the thing....if a player/coach wasn't improving/regressing what would BB do?

 

[reflexblue]

ball already passed line of scrimmage, so Mac could only pass it laterally or backwards, he couldnt pass it forward

I didn't see what happened live because i figured it was going to overtime so i got up and walked away. But in watching the replay rham had run it down to the 38 yardline of oakland, if he just went out of bounds there was still enough time to run a couple of plays and kick of field goal so what he did is and ever worse screw up.

 

[Thelonious]

90% of the posts since the end of the game have been negative, trolling is different. They don't have a problem with negative posts otherwise this thread would be one page long.

I understand the difference, of course. Certain mods do not. Therein lies the problem. I am reluctant to be more specific, but anyone who participated in yesterday's game thread will know what I am talking about.

 

[RIpats88]

i really dont like Matt Chatham's analysis because he is always non objective when criticizing coaching or play calls but i doagree with him about the players part here

This is a dumb take by Chatham. Who gets the players prepared? The coaches. If the team is sloppy, undisciplined. That's coaching. If the players can't read situational football...that means it's not being stressed enough by....the coaches...

At what point does the utter defense of bill stop? He's been a .500 coach without Brady. The way he has handled everything from Brady's departure to having no backup plan, to also being unprepared for Josh to leave. And then to replace him with his "buddies" because he arrogantly thinks anyone can coach offense is why we are here. Not to mention the years of poor drafts that led the cupboard bare after 2019.

 

[TomPatriot]

It's the WAY they are losing (undisciplined, bad clock mgt, can't get plays in, dumb mistakes, regressing) and the people hired to fix them that has made me a detractor. I think they are playing hard and they care so that is a positive.

This. I expect Marcus and Jack and Cole to make dumb mistakes. I don't expect it from Jakobi. It's tough to watch.