Game Day Thread Official Post Game Thread- Pats beat Arizona

[SVN]

I can't see why the lack of co-ordination of the offensive line, the failure of the players to progress and the obvious alienation of, for example, Isaiah Wynn, isn't down to the OL coach.

So at what point is it on the players ? False start , what else is there to coach an experienced player like brown ? its easy to just blame the coach which is probably deserved but dumb mistakes also goes on the players. How many botched handoffs we have seen this yr ? One can only teach so many times. The players also need to take to heart. The issue is that our oline depth is so compromised that they cant bench repeat offenders.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

Thanks. There are a huge number of QB busts in the top 5 though, that's what's scary. I shudder when I think of all the #1 picks the Jets and Bills have made over the last 25 years. And ironically, one high draft pick that the Jets spent on a guy and then tossed him aside, well he's playing pretty well as the starter in Seattle right now.

the situation you are drafted in matters quit a bit, so some of the "busts" may could have turned into something at some other team we will never know because those guys barely get a second chance and sometimes they are just busts like trubisky for example. but the chances for a good qb are obv higher and the value of the position justifies the selection of an early qb. most teams picking there need help everywhere and it starts and falls with a qb. Those teams do not need to buy high priced FA and that kind of stuff until they find a reliable qb they can win games with. even if he's a game manager, slightly above average qb, that is what you need at least

 

[venecol]

The combination between the OL play and the coaching staff not thrusting Mac fully throwing deep is the reason you see those type of game plans.

I don’t think it is a coincidence that Mac was top 3 in the league in ADOT before his injury and throwing 6 picks in 3 games. And being, after his injury, at the bottom of the league in ADOT and throwing 2 picks in 6 games.

It is clear to me that the coaching staff put the rein back on when he came back.

Yea, it's pretty obvious that after the 2021 Bye, teams had enough film on Mac to formulate game plans to limit him. We had at least 3 or 4 teams coming in saying exactly what they would force Mac to do to beat them. They all won.

Mac has athletic limitations that good teams are exploiting. Patricia wanted to go with the vertical game. That's why they brought in Parker, drafted Strange, Thornton, & Strong. Once Mac became a TO machine, they put the training wheels back on. Mac hates it. That's why you see him running around trying to make Mahomes plays. Mac is no Mahomes.

It sucks because he did just enough last season with "training wheels on" to fool people into believing he may be the guy. If Pats aren't careful, they'll walk right into QB purgatory, where team is good enough to be a #6-#8 seed but never good enough to contend. That'll keep them out of the top half of the draft and into perpetual mediocrity.

 

[Rob0729]

Not sure you completely understand Robo's theory:

1. Mac had superpowers last season.
2. Patricia comes in this season, and is Mac's kryptonite, removing his superpowers and turning them into weaknesses.
3. As far as the 2021 last 5 games, wasn't Patricia in the building? Just his presence was enough to begin the drain of Mac's superpowers.
4. Only solution is to remove Patricia from the building, entirely.
5. You may ask what about in the MIN game where Mac played pretty well. Patricia is no fool. He toned down the kryptonite so as to not seem so obvious, but turned it back on again in the 4th Qtr when Mac proceeded to suck ass.
6. I believe Robo is working on a comic strip where Mac is the hero, called "Sunshine" and Patricia is the evil villain called "Fat Bastard." It's bound to be a hit.

LOL! You really embarrass yourself with this BS. Why don't you just stick to your patented superficial, biased "analysis" and lay off the schtick.

 

[upstater1]

Some good analysis from Dan Orlovsky. The second video shows where Matt Patricia the O-line Coach is a big problem with the o-line. He pointing out how the o-line keeps making the same mistakes with blocking assignments. The o-line coach should be coaching that up and fixing it. Obviously, they are not. Orlovsky claims this is basic stuff they are screwing up.

I'm only going to talk about this specific play, because Onwenu has his guy and McDermott ignores the outside rusher to engage the guy that Onwenu is already tangling with.

McDermott blows the assignment. He wasn't playing football 2 weeks ago. So talk about it all you want, McDermott doesn't know the assignments, he doesn't know the plays, he's very rusty as well. We saw this with Kevin Harris's fumble as well. Just doesnt have the plays down, doesn't have the experience either.

This to me is very nitpicky.

It is absolutely not Mac's fault and I said this during the broadcast. BUT it is BECAUSE we have McDermott in there.

Honestly I am getting Marshall Newhouse flashbacks right now. Patricia wasn't with the team back then, and Tom Brady was our QB, but the offensive line 3 years ago looked no different than this play. When you bring a guy in who hasn't been playing football, he doesn't know the plays, there's not much you can do.

Except for a WR screen.

 

[upstater1]

But if we change the coaching and Mac still sucks, what do we do? Blame something else? The majority does not matter if we want to fix the whole situation. Have to address the total problem, not pieces of the problem. Mac is part of the problem, that has to be addressed along with the coaching issue.

Over his career, even if Mac improves, he will occasionally encounter the very bad OL in front of him, whether it's due to talent or injuries. It will be up to him to deal with it. He's very young now and so it's not expected he'll instantly figure it out.

But you see what Herbert does and it's impressive. He is constantly harassed and stands in there. Mac needs to learn to do that.

 

[Rob0729]

I'm only going to talk about this specific play, because Onwenu has his guy and McDermott ignores the outside rusher to engage the guy that Onwenu is already tangling with.

McDermott blows the assignment. He wasn't playing football 2 weeks ago. So talk about it al you want, McDermott doesn't know the assignments, he doesn't know the plays, he's very rusty as well. We saw this with Kevin Harris's fumble as well. Just doesnt have the plays down, doesn't have the experience either.

This to me is very nitpicky.

It is absolutely not Mac's fault and I said this during the broadcast. BUT it is BECAUSE we have McDermott in there.

Honestly I am getting Marshall Newhouse flashbacks right now. Patricia wasn't with the team back then, and Tom Brady was our QB, but the offensive line 3 years ago looked no different than this play. When you bring a guy in who hasn't been playing football, he doesn't know the plays, there's not much you can do.

Except for a WR screen.

You can point to other plays. How about the interception play where Hunter Henry gets absolutely owned by the DE blocking him one on one while the five offensive linemen block three rushers. Not one of the linemen peel off to help Henry on that play or the RB(I think it was still Stevenson at that point). Both the Henry and the RB blocked guys one on one and the oline blocked three rushers with five linemen.

 

[upstater1]

I don't know about blaming Patricia in this post. Do we know that the receiver or TE set to the right were not supposed to pick up the rusher? Maybe McDermott just off the bus missed his assignment. Maybe Mac should have seen the hot receiver to the right and thrown the ball instead of retreating. IDK, just to easy to say it's Patricia coaching and play calling.

I agree with the first part but there's no way you blame Mac when the assignment is blown and the guy is on him in .2 seconds. He did what he should have done there.

 

[upstater1]

You can point to other plays. How about the interception play where Hunter Henry gets absolutely owned by the DE blocking him one on one while the five offensive linemen block three rushers. Not one of the linemen peel off to help Henry on that play.

McDermott again!!

 

[upstater1]

Last year...Stafford. He was much less the risk taker, gunslinger as he was in his earlier career. He's definitively not the "top tier" QB that's in the hunt every year type QB that the original post made the comparison to.

Some others: Phil Simms. Jim McMahon. Doug Williams. Jeff Hostetler. Mark Rypien. Trent Dilfer. Rich Gannon. Eli Manning. Joe Flacco. Nick Foles. None of those guys was a top three or four QBs in the league over their entire career that need much less of a complete team around them and get to the playoffs mostly on the backs of their own talent year in and year out.

Absolutely right. Stafford was mediocre. One could easily see a lot of QBs winning with a super talented team like that. Goff could've won that. The Rams didn't even need to trade away the future (and by that I mean draft picks).

 

[Rob0729]

McDermott again!!

What about the other side? The oline totally whiffed on the safety blitz.

BTW, Manning's reaction to this play is probably the same reaction Mac had.

 

[upstater1]

What about the other side? The oline totally whiffed on the safety blitz.

BTW, Manning's reaction to this play is probably the same reaction Mac had.

It was picked up by the running back!

As designed.

In both these plays, it's McDermott making the crucial mistake.

Why do you think Patricia sees 2 big mistakes by McDermott, so he reins in the offense? Because he's helpless. There's nothing to be done.

Look, I want Patricia replaced. I see problems with play design. I have no problem with his play calling. But this? Patricia can't turn McDermott into a functional NFL starter when the guy just came off the street.

 

[Rob0729]

It was picked up by the running back!

As designed.

In both these plays, it's McDermott making the crucial mistake.

Why do you think Patricia sees 2 big mistakes by McDermott, so he reins in the offense? Because he's helpless. There's nothing to be done.

Look, I want Patricia replaced. I see problems with play design. I have no problem with his play calling. But this? Patricia can't turn McDermott into a functional NFL starter when the guy just came off the street.

You are right about the safety blitz. I should have realized that.

But you can only blame McDermott so much since we have seen the same in previous weeks from Wynn and Cajuste. McDermott is just latest in a long line of failed RT this season.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

What about the other side? The oline totally whiffed on the safety blitz.

That was Hunter Henry whiffing on the block

 

[upstater1]

You are right about the safety blitz. I should have realized that.

But you can only blame McDermott so much since we have seen the same in previous weeks from Wynn and Cajuste. McDermott is just latest in a long line of failed RT this season.

With Wynn they ran their offense. They didn't abandon it. He gave up pressures and sacks. But the coaches did not feel like he was so clueless out there that he wouldn't even know what to do. His failings were physical and technique oriented. mcDermott is a whole other thing. It's really like having only 4 guys on the line sometimes.

 

[Rob0729]

That was Hunter Henry whiffing on the block

Henry was outmatched. You put a TE on a DE one on one and the TE is going to lose 99 times out of 100. I can't really blame him when the o-line is blocking three rushers.

 

[upstater1]

That was Hunter Henry whiffing on the block

No, he's talking about the safety blitz, Baker, coming on the other side. It gets picked up by the RB.

As for Henry, he is supposed to chip or double that guy WITH McDermott.

 

[The Brandon Five]

Henry was outmatched. You put a TE on a DE one on one and the TE is going to lose 99 times out of 100. I can't really blame him when the o-line is blocking three rushers.

Unless the TE is Gronk

 

[Rob0729]

Unless the TE is Gronk

Even Gronk would double with the tackle more so than take one on one blocks. He could do it better than most, but even he would struggle with one on one match ups with DE.

 

[PatsFan2]

What about the other side? The oline totally whiffed on the safety blitz.

BTW, Manning's reaction to this play is probably the same reaction Mac had.

There was Big play potential there what could have been.