Game Day Thread Official Post Game Thread- Pats beat Arizona

[archstanton543]

Later in the show Peyton asked Eli what the Pats should run for a play. Eli stuttered and stammered and had no idea. Amazing for a guy who played QB for so long.

Can't spell "élite" without "Eli".

 

[Rob0729]

Later in the show Peyton asked Eli what the Pats should run for a play. Eli stuttered and stammered and had no idea. Amazing for a guy who played QB for so long.

I bet this isn't as uncommon as you think with QBs. There are probably a lot of QBs who can run plays just fine and can break down film, but are clueless on how to call plays and what are the best plays for particular situations. I am sure the elite guys can, but I think there probably some second and third tier QBs who cannot.

And let's face it. If Eli didn't have two rings, no one would be considering him an upper tier QB of his era. He was a good, not a great QB IMHO. He was a QB who was good enough and could play great in stretches surrounded by a talented roster and had a great head coach.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Here is a screenshot of the play at the moment when Owenu threw his guy to the ground. See that Andrews is standing right in front of Owenu. Look at how much space there was between the defender and Strange.

I got one question. If Jones stepped up in the pocket on that play, would Owenu get credit for the sack for throwing his defender into Jones.

And also, up until Owenu threw his guy to the ground and disengaged him, why would Jones even need to step up into the pocket?

View attachment 48227

Step up does not necessarily mean step straight forward. Mac can step up by moving sideways through the gap the Oline created. If you watched Brady over the years, he did that all the time. Move to where the space is and then immediately flip the hips to be prepared to throw. Mac moves around in the pocket poorly.

 

[archstanton543]

I bet this isn't as uncommon as you think with QBs. There are probably a lot of QBs who can run plays just fine and can break down film, but are clueless on how to call plays and what are the best plays for particular situations. I am sure the elite guys can, but I think there probably some second and third tier QBs who cannot.

And let's face it. If Eli didn't have two rings, no one would be considering him an upper tier QB of his era. He was a good, not a great QB IMHO.

The only thing he led the league in in his career was INT's.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

7th seed travels to KC or BUF. LAC lost to KC by combined 6 pts in 2 games. They can be competitive because their offense can put up points.

Pats would be blown out by KC or BUF. Not sure the Jets wouldn't at least put up a fight, but fail, against those two.

Aikman is correct, this isn't a playoff caliber team. I doubt they get in. Need to win 3 out of remaining 4. I just don't see that happening. We can forget about MIA or BUF not going all in since they both will be playing for seeding. MIA has 3 division games. BUF has 2. Jets have 2 gimmes against DET & JAX. Chargers have Colts, Broncos & Rams, 3 of the 4 worse scoring teams in the NFL. LAC should win 3 out of their remaining 4.

Buffalo has the tiebreaker against KC, so if Buffalo is up 1 going into Week 18, they will rest guys. Very possible.

 

[Rob0729]

Step up does not necessarily mean step straight forward. Mac can step up by moving sideways through the gap the Oline created. If you watched Brady over the years, he did that all the time. Move to where the space is and then immediately flip the hips to be prepared to throw. Mac moves around in the pocket poorly.

This year he is. Last year he didn't. But Owenu threw a defender right at his feet.

Here is the screenshot again. Where can he step up to? Right into the arms of #97? There is no gap there. The DE is standing right there and would just grab him. He can't slide right because the RT is in his way. He slides left and it won't help him because the defender on the ground would still get up and chase after him.



This will be my last post on this play. We can over analyze it to death. No one is going to change anyone's minds.

 

[ashley]

Great rush by Ekuale on this play:

 

[Mike the Brit]

Game Observations: Nine Takeaways From the Patriots Huge Win Over the Cardinals on Monday Night

The Pats got a much-needed win in the desert on Monday night.

www.patriots.com

this is all not MP. not being able to block is one thing but offensive line penalties are committed way too much by our offense during critical times,

I can't see why the lack of co-ordination of the offensive line, the failure of the players to progress and the obvious alienation of, for example, Isaiah Wynn, isn't down to the OL coach.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Agreed.

Yes and lost 5 of the last 6 games including a very embarrassing playoff loss. I believe Mac had to be pushed out of the nest to see if he could fly on his own (like the Pats did). So far Mac is not great on his own. The OC does not make Mac move awkwardly in the pocket or lock in on only 1 receiver. You wanted to keep Mac in the nest for 2 years? Maybe. I agree with the management decision to push Mac out of the nest even if he can't fly.

I liked the quick outs to the WRs (lumped in as screens in the stats). Teams have been putting 8 and 9 players between the tackles so the Pats need 1) the speed to go wide which they drafted and 2) run more WR screens, jet sweeps, etc., to play/run outside the tackles. Glad we practiced that stuff against the Cards.

Change is tough. It takes awhile to implement and can look ugly. I think we needed to change. Maybe this version is the wrong way, but I am glad they tried to change.

Agree. The logic behind the change made absolute sense to me. The Brady/Josh offense was massive. I think Josh simplified it for Mac only he could. Plus it was too difficult for rookies to pick up.

The people responsible for executing the change were the wrong choice. There is no doubt of it.

 

[Toofy]

Which SB win in the last in the last 30 years has been won by a game manager for you? Just curious.

Peyton Manning of broncos.
Nick foles aided by stupid benching of butler which could have been the difference
Stafford to a great extent carried by defense and stud Wr.

 

[Rob0729]

Agree. The logic behind the change made absolute sense to me. The Brady/Josh offense was massive. I think Josh simplified it for Mac only he could. Plus it was too difficult for rookies to pick up.

The people responsible for executing the change were the wrong choice. There is no doubt of it.

Reports the simplification was for the receivers and not Mac. The receivers were having problems making presnap reads and adjusting their routes. Jones didn't show any difficulty picking up the offense last year and after a full year with it under his belt, it was probably harder for him to pick up an easy simplified offense than continuing to run the McDaniels' offense.

But again, last year people were calling Jones a check down Charlie because he did check down a lot. Now they are complaining that he doesn't check down at all or enough. Last year he had very command of the pocket and was able to step up at the right times. This year he is uncomfortable in the pocket and takes off running. What made him turn into the exact opposite QB that he was last year?

Seriously, Mac Jones year two looks absolutely nothing like Mac Jones year one. And I am just not saying he isn't performing as well. I am saying that his strengths last year are now weaknesses this year. He is very different player than he was last year. That is why I put most of the blame on Patricia and Belichick. They are not putting him in a position to maximize his strengths. In fact, they have put him in a position where they transformed his strengths into weaknesses.

 

[Sfpat]

I bet this isn't as uncommon as you think with QBs. There are probably a lot of QBs who can run plays just fine and can break down film, but are clueless on how to call plays and what are the best plays for particular situations. I am sure the elite guys can, but I think there probably some second and third tier QBs who cannot.

And let's face it. If Eli didn't have two rings, no one would be considering him an upper tier QB of his era. He was a good, not a great QB IMHO. He was a QB who was good enough and could play great in stretches surrounded by a talented roster and had a great head coach.

That description of Eli sounds a lot like the description of Mac

 

[Rob0729]

That description of Eli sounds a lot like the description of Mac

Eli has two Super Bowl rings. I will take it.

 

[State]

watching the game in relive (did not watch it last night) i noticed we used uche more on early downs than i ever saw in this season. i like that, i think we can use him there with his speed

That’s an interesting development. Uche is making his impact felt in the obvious passing downs. But can he play the run and cover in the passing game to become a complete linebacker?

I think so. But there’s been a lot of coaching and film study behind the scenes. People have been blasé at his lack of experience in college and the pros.

Is he more than a third and long pass rusher?

 

[Toofy]

After that it depends of what you want. If you want to be in the mix every year to win the SB then Mac Jones in not your guy. If you want to be around .500 football every year. Sometimes be in the playoff, sometimes not and maybe win 1 if you have a loaded team then Mac is perfectly fine for that.

Agree. The 50% that I quoted were outside of Brady very few elite passers won SB. So actual percentage could be 30 %. With Mac , we might be a 50-50 team that can win the occasional SB. I wouldn't sign a long term contract with Mac.

I have a feeling QB contracts will start to change from this season. Unless you are elite, nobody is gonna give 100 mill guaranteed when you can get the same output from rookie QBs at fraction of cost. Something similar to RB market is gonna happen.at least we all know Mac is not elite , so we might be expecting Kirk cousins or below standard of play .

 

[State]

I could not for the life of me understand this sequence:

- Rham hurts his ankle and leaves the game.
- Rham returns to the game a while later on an iffy ankle.
- As soon as Rham returns, with an iffy ankle, 4 of the next 5 plays are screens, 3 of which go to him, on an iffy ankle.

Take a wild guess how many of those screens worked out in that sequence (spoiler: zero).

Will Mike Reiss in his unctuous tones ask Belichick why Rham was permitted back on the field? Legitimate question.

 

[State]

Michael Mccorkle Jones

And I thought it was for the actor with Down’s syndrome, Chris Burke.

Chris Burke (actor) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Reports the simplification was for the receivers and not Mac. The receivers were having problems making presnap reads and adjusting their routes. Jones didn't show any difficulty picking up the offense last year and after a full year with it under his belt, it was probably harder for him to pick up an easy simplified offense than continuing to run the McDaniels' offense.

But again, last year people were calling Jones a check down Charlie because he did check down a lot. Now they are complaining that he doesn't check down at all or enough. Last year he had very command of the pocket and was able to step up at the right times. This year he is uncomfortable in the pocket and takes off running. What made him turn into the exact opposite QB that he was last year?

Seriously, Mac Jones year two looks absolutely nothing like Mac Jones year one. And I am just not saying he isn't performing as well. I am saying that his strengths last year are now weaknesses this year. He is very different player than he was last year. That is why I put most of the blame on Patricia and Belichick. They are not putting him in a position to maximize his strengths. In fact, they have put him in a position where they transformed his strengths into weaknesses.

How much of it is Mac's responsibility?

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Agree. The logic behind the change made absolute sense to me. The Brady/Josh offense was massive. I think Josh simplified it for Mac only he could. Plus it was too difficult for rookies to pick up.

The people responsible for executing the change were the wrong choice. There is no doubt of it.

Coaches are easily changed. Is Mac a franchise QB with new coaching? Will the coaching make him move better in the pocket? Set his feet correctly? Be less nervous?

I think there is a lot about Mac's movement and anticipation that are lacking and I am not sure the coaching is to blame. After 2021 I thought Mac was a lock. Now I am not sure and a lot of that is on him, IMO.

 

[slash83]

Coaches are easily changed. Is Mac a franchise QB with new coaching? Will the coaching make him move better in the pocket? Set his feet correctly? Be less nervous?

I think there is a lot about Mac's movement and anticipation that are lacking and I am not sure the coaching is to blame. After 2021 I thought Mac was a lock. Now I am not sure and a lot of that is on him, IMO.

I blame the offensive line on him being nervous. He isn't some seasoned vet who can stand their and operate under constant quick pressure, heck even vets get rattled with shaky offensive line play. Make both tackle positions a priority this off-season, put a solid line in front of him then we can properly judge him imo. I'm a Mac fan, I think he can be a franchise QB with the right tools around him.