Bill Belichick: Highest Paid Coach in North American Sports at $20m per

[All3Phases]

Because the obvious answer is that you don't have a salary cap to weigh the coach against while you need to allot for the entire roster with the salary cap.

Again, this isnt answering why he deserves the money or not...Its somebodys money, it didnt just poof from thin air...Would you pay 100$ for chicken nuggets? theres no salary cap, why not?

 

[All3Phases]

Does production equate to being a good team? Yes. Actually it does. When compared to the record, what does one do? Helps identify the issue or issues that are causing the disconnect between the production and wins/losses... In this case, one of the main issues was the quarterback. No doubt about it. As much as you want to hide from the obvious, its kinda hard to do that when its staring you right in the face.

After the 2019 season BA stated "the Bucs can win with Winston at quarterback, or with someone else." A direct quote from the head coach that the qb play was an issue. So there isn't any meat left on the bone left for you to flesh out your "argument".

Their roster is so good, that the quarterback is the only reason why theyre a contender...This is your argument

And the 2021 Patriots differ from the 2022 Patriots how? All of the issues I commented on. Its its literally not irrelevant. Especially losing Josh McDaniels.

Theyre mostly the same roster, they produced in 2021...2nd ranked defense 6th ranked offense...Thats a loaded roster right? All they need is a quarterback!

 

[All3Phases]

???

This whole discussion has only been about 1 yr.

I've said multiple times that the Patriots broke from practice.

Everyone knows this.

We all know how Belichick typically likes to do it.

He never blows it out the way he did, but for the final Super Bowl, he maxed his old vets and went for it.

You can talk about the one year, he gave you the YEARLY spending...2019 is included, by the year...They didnt have a big spending year in any of the years in that period. 2019 was also after the last super bowl.

Let me help you out...in 2018 (last super bowl year when they "maxed his old vets and went for it") were 24th in cash spending...In 2019 they were 12th. Which one of those two years hindered the future?

 

[upstater1]

You can talk about the one year, he gave you the YEARLY spending...2019 is included, by the year...They didnt have a big spending year in any of the years in that period. 2019 was also after the last super bowl.

Let me help you out...in 2018 (last super bowl year when they "maxed his old vets and went for it") were 24th in cash spending...In 2019 they were 12th. Which one of those two years hindered the future?

I gave you to links that showed they were strapped with dead money, all the way to the cap.

Cash spending is DIFFERENT than the cap.

I'm not sure how you don't realize this.

The cap incorporates dead cap hits from money long spent.

 

[All3Phases]

I gave you to links that showed they were strapped with dead money, all the way to the cap.

Cash spending is DIFFERENT than the cap.

I'm not sure how you don't realize this.

The cap incorporates dead cap hits from money long spent.

You gave me links that showed the drafts hurt the future rosters...Teams are obligated to spend to the cap yearly, so they didnt do anything different in those years...The guy who created OTC showed you, in a thread that they A) Didnt spend cash at an alarming rate and B) saw 0 reason why the team was "cap strapped".

 

[Pape]

Their roster is so good, that the quarterback is the only reason why theyre a contender...This is your argument

That's the exact opposite of what I'm saying. Their roster was good. They only needed one more piece to be highly competitive. 2020 proved that.

Theyre mostly the same roster, they produced in 2021...2nd ranked defense 6th ranked offense...Thats a loaded roster right? All they need is a quarterback!

This year what's different? The coaching staff. McDaniels was a significant departure. You know, one of the points I made that you referred to as irrelevant.

 

[All3Phases]

That's the exact opposite of what I'm saying. Their roster was good. They only needed one more piece to be highly competitive. 2020 proved that.

Your mistake is thinking the only thing Brady brought to the team was his playing ability. You lazily shrug it off by saying he went to a loaded team and did what he normally does. Without the quarterback, the Bucs were one of the 10 worst teams in the league, regularly.

This year what's different? The coaching staff. McDaniels was a significant departure. You know, one of the points I made that you referred to as irrelevant.

I never said it was irrelevant, I'm proving to you that you need more than a good roster...Which the patriots have. I havent seen you call them a super team at all over the last 2 years

 

[upstater1]

You gave me links that showed the drafts hurt the future rosters...Teams are obligated to spend to the cap yearly, so they didnt do anything different in those years...The guy who created OTC showed you, in a thread that they A) Didnt spend cash at an alarming rate and B) saw 0 reason why the team was "cap strapped".

Did you read the links? They were all about how the cap hits left no room to sign anyone and how they were releasing old vets without replacing them. Taking the hits on their contracts.

Regardless, your post about the level of cash spending is irrelevant when the salary cap isn't about cash spending. It includes dead money! You don't have a choice but to immediately count the dead money against your cap when you release old veterans. You take the cap hit immediately. That's what puts you in cap hell. The only way to avoid it is to extend those veterans and push what you owe them into the future.

 

[All3Phases]

Did you read the links? They were all about how the cap hits left no room to sign anyone and how they were releasing old vets without replacing them. Taking the hits on their contracts.

And this is proven by providing no insight on the actual financials...Showing me links from a journalist saying they drafted poorly, supports me, not you

Regardless, your post about the level of cash spending is irrelevant when the salary cap isn't about cash spending. It includes dead money! You don't have a choice but to immediately count the dead money against your cap when you release old veterans. You take the cap hit immediately. That's what puts you in cap hell. The only way to avoid it is to extend those veterans and push what you owe them into the future.

IF you read the tweets and the thread, they are very much related. You say they were in cap hell in 2020, while also franchising a guard (expensive), signing their 35 year old safety to a new deal (expensive) and extending chung, all after absorbing Bradys dead cap hit...Which they CHOSE to do, years in advance. Then they magically had 200 mil to spend the next offseason...Which part of hell were they stuck in?

We will just have to agree to disagree

 

[Toofy]

Brady had an outsized impact on the team. leadership, comeback abilities, lifting the team by making sum of parts look gargantuan.

After Brady has left we are in mediocrity. Last season was aided by some soft schedule and some lucky breaks ( Nick Chubb, Derrick Henry, Murray brain freeze , rookie QB etc) .

For the money spent and the fact that we have a second year QB we should have ascended not come crashing down . That's purely on coaching. When you have the two highest paid tight ends and don't know how to use them that's criminal .

Trying to use Meyers on burner routes is just insane when you have Thornton.

See how Christian Watson, Alec pierce are developing and how we are.

Our comparison should be with 49ers and they are a decent QB away from a ring. Are we there ? No...

We haven't beat any marquee teams yet. The bills win was a combination of extreme weather and coaching resilience . I will give that . But outside of that we tend to beat the weaker and poorly coached teams. Teams with better roster and average coaching we just throw in the towel.

Player development - negative ( jack Jones and Marcus are outliers to an extent)
Free agency signings - below par outside of Judon
QB development - negative
Upset wins over favored opponents - None
Drafting of pro bowl caliber players - negligible
Team promise leading into 2023 - more questions than answers.



Now with these results the only thing holding fort is 6 titles . And in 2023 we would be 5 years away from title.

How long can we give bill the benefit of doubt considering that the game is getting younger and faster.

 

[upstater1]

And this is proven by providing no insight on the actual financials...Showing me links from a journalist saying they drafted poorly, supports me, not you

IF you read the tweets and the thread, they are very much related. You say they were in cap hell in 2020, while also franchising a guard (expensive), signing their 35 year old safety to a new deal (expensive) and extending chung, all after absorbing Bradys dead cap hit...Which they CHOSE to do, years in advance. Then they magically had 200 mil to spend the next offseason...Which part of hell were they stuck in?

We will just have to agree to disagree

I've said this a number of times but it doesn't get through your thick head. You just get into irrelevant arguments that are not CENTRAL to what we're talking about. I've already done this but I'll do it again.

1. I never said they drafted well. Everyone agrees they drafted poorly. Who cares? I said it's irrelevant. You said the link backs you. You're arguing with yourself about poor drafts, I haven't seen anyone care.
2. I said it's irrelevant BECAUSE they won 3 Super Bowls and went to 4. I really don't care how poorly they drafted.
3. The whole point is that they kept older vets on the roster and maxed out contracts, and they took the hit on those contracts all at once. You mention Brady, Chung and Thuney. I listed 15+ vets. Thuney was not one of the old guys. There were 15+ vets with contracts topping out in that year.
4. They magically had a bunch of money to spend BECAUSE they took the hit on dead cap money. They could've extended all these older vets which would have cut into future spending.

I'm struggling to understand why this is so difficult for you.

 

[sb1]

The circumstances that led to Don Shula abruptly retiring from the Dolphins sound familiar including his team's owner ordering him to fire his personnel and staff.
NFL Legend Shula Quits Dolphin Job

Deja vu in NE? Hopefully not.

 

[All3Phases]

I've said this a number of times but it doesn't get through your thick head. You just get into irrelevant arguments that are not CENTRAL to what we're talking about. I've already done this but I'll do it again.

1. I never said they drafted well. Everyone agrees they drafted poorly. Who cares? I said it's irrelevant. You said the link backs you. You're arguing with yourself about poor drafts, I haven't seen anyone care.

Well, its kind of a large point as to why the roster fell off, you chose to blame the salary cap, when a massive underlying issue was not replacing a chunk of the roster with young players on rookie deals

2. I said it's irrelevant BECAUSE they won 3 Super Bowls and went to 4. I really don't care how poorly they drafted.

Ok, thats fair enough...We agree they drafted poorly

3. The whole point is that they kept older vets on the roster and maxed out contracts, and they took the hit on those contracts all at once. You mention Brady, Chung and Thuney. I listed 15+ vets. Thuney was not one of the old guys. There were 15+ vets with contracts topping out in that year.

Youre logic is that they paid their good players, if this is what resulted in cap hell, then a lot of teams would consistently be in it...Thats my point

4. They magically had a bunch of money to spend BECAUSE they took the hit on dead cap money. They could've extended all these older vets which would have cut into future spending.

The older players were no longer good, they had nothing to replace them because of ...Poor drafting for a stretch...We have come full circle...Thats not the caps fault. Do you know how much dead money they had in 2021? Somehow they were flush with "cap space" any how. They had more dead cap in 2021 then 2020...Again, your math is just posting number that lead nowhere

I'm struggling to understand why this is so difficult for you.

Trust me, this isnt difficult for me

 

[Pape]

This is irrelevant to my argument. In 2021, they had the 2nd ranked defense and 6th ranked offense in the league, imagine adding a super star qb to that!

I never said it was irrelevant, I'm proving to you that you need more than a good roster...Which the patriots have. I havent seen you call them a super team at all over the last 2 years

care to rephrase that first sentence?

Of course you need a good roster. You need a team that can produce. which is exactly what the 2019 bucs did. eliminate the 30 ints, and guess what? contender.

and why would I call the Patriots a super team? They aren't. They haven't been. I may be a homer, but that doesn't mean i'm going to overlook flaws that I see... We have massive question marks on the roster, starting at the qb position.

They aren't there yet, but slowly the talent is building here. If BB has identified Mac as his qb going forward, then address a few areas of concern - for players - O-Line first and foremost. We need new tackles. I'm tired of Trent Brown, and am glad wynns days are numbered here... and for the team - for the love of god, get Patricia out of the offense... get a real OC, get a real O-Line coach... BB said to blame him if it doesn't work out - well I am blaming him. Its on his shoulders. With that said warts and all, i think BB gets the opportunity to chase down shula here. I think BB gets the opportunity to get to team back to a competitive level.

we are just going around in circles now All3... The back and forth with you has been a fun way to pass my covid quarantine time (and didn't evolve into a flame-fest, so ty for that, much respects ) that's the last bit from me on this issue...

 

[All3Phases]

care to rephrase that first sentence?

Of course you need a good roster. You need a team that can produce. which is exactly what the 2019 bucs did. eliminate the 30 ints, and guess what? contender.

and why would I call the Patriots a super team? They aren't. They haven't been. I may be a homer, but that doesn't mean i'm going to overlook flaws that I see... We have massive question marks on their roster, starting at the qb position.

If you add tom Brady to this roster, are they a super team? Its as easy as a yes or no...Just trying to gauge your logic.

we are just going around in circles now All3...

They aren't there yet, but slowly the talent is building here. If he has identified Mac as his qb going forward, then address a few areas of concern - for players - O-Line first and foremost. We need new tackles. I'm tired of Trent Brown, and am glad wynns days are numbered here... and for the team - for the love of god, get Patricia out of the offense... get a real OC, get a real O-Line coach... BB said to blame him if it doesn't work out - well I am blaming him. Its on his shoulders. With that said warts and all, i think BB gets the opportunity to chase down shula here. I think BB gets the opportunity to get to team back to a competitive level.

The back and forth with you has been fun (and didn't evolve into a flame-fest, so ty for that, much respects ) that's the last bit from me on this issue...

Id never flame anybody, im here just to talk meaningless sports on an internet site

 

[Pape]

If you add tom Brady to this roster, are they a super team? Its as easy as a yes or no...Just trying to gauge your logic.

This team? this year a super team? No.
Brady would make everyone better. But Brady can only do so much. Fundamentally, the team is flawed due to its lack of experience and depth on the coaching staff. Its fundamentally flawed because the oline is a shambles. Its much like whats going on in tampa right now.

Id never flame anybody, im here just to talk meaningless sports on an internet site

Well, I wanted to let you know that attitude is appreciated.

 

[captain stone]

The circumstances that led to Don Shula abruptly retiring from the Dolphins sound familiar including his team's owner ordering him to fire his personnel and staff.
NFL Legend Shula Quits Dolphin Job

Deja vu in NE? Hopefully not.

Better a year early than a year late...

 

[All3Phases]

This team? this year a super team? No.
Brady would make everyone better. But Brady can only do so much. Fundamentally, the team is flawed due to its lack of experience and depth on the coaching staff. Its fundamentally flawed because the oline is a shambles. Its much like whats going on in tampa right now

Right, I think thats the point. Its easy to call a team a super team after the fact, having a talent roster doesnt equate to winning...We have seen here that there are many factors that go into winning...I just thought its an oversimplification to say Brady just showed up to play and they became a super bowl contender.

Well, I wanted to let you know that attitude is appreciated.

Agree, same here

 

[Real fan 02]

He had a lot of 7-9 seasons and some 9-7 season too. Couldnt win more than 1 SB or even get to more than one with brees. People who are impatient with BB after 3 yrs and 1 losing season post brady will be in for a surprise .

He had some awful defenses mixed in with some of those teams, (like us 2012 & 2018 )that cost the Saints some super bowl appearances, they absolutely got hosed in the 2019 AFC championship game..

However I don't feel people are impatient it's more we saw the team take a positive step last season, this season made everyone feel there is a regression, no direction the offense isn't even basic NFL caliber. It's gotten so bad opposing teams coordinators are laughing at us..

More so the krafts told media they spent heavily, and felt they were rebuilt to get back into contention. They don't view it as a rebuild. So that is why this season is such a disappointment on a lot of levels.

 

[Real fan 02]

Better a year early than a year late...

We all can agree changes will be made.. at this point NOTHING can be a suprise..