Bill Belichick: Highest Paid Coach in North American Sports at $20m per

[upstater1]

He created OTC. Again, I know what youre saying...the Financials disagree. Saying it to say it isnt backing anything up. Thats the cash spending from 2016-2020. Somehow being towards the back half of the league in spending led them to be in cap hell?

Again, nothing in the financials or spending result in being cap constrained

We're talking about one year and you're looking at a 5 year period. The above is still in play.

We all know you can game the cap if you're willing to push salaries into the future.

But in this case, you're stuck longer with the players. You don't HAVE TO force yourself into salary cap hell, but if you push it into the future, there are ramifications.

With aging stars, you're just delaying the pain. Better to do it all at once. And so many of those players were older stars.

Take Jonnu Smith right now. We made cap space by restructuring him in order to avoid some cap pressure this year. All teams do this. But what are the ramifications? We're stuck with him now because his dead cap hit is too much.

 

[upstater1]

They had an odd succession plan though.

Brady never even liked to have adequate backups behind him. He was always more comfortable with Hoyer and the like. He treated Garoppolo like a leper. Not that I blame him.

 

[All3Phases]

We're talking about one year and you're looking at a 5 year period. The above is still in play.

We all know you can game the cap if you're willing to push salaries into the future.

But in this case, you're stuck longer with the players. You don't HAVE TO force yourself into salary cap hell, but if you push it into the future, there are ramifications.

With aging stars, you're just delaying the pain. Better to do it all at once. And so many of those players were older stars.

Take Jonnu Smith right now. We made cap space by restructuring him in order to avoid some cap pressure this year. All teams do this. But what are the ramifications? We're stuck with him now because his dead cap hit is too much.

You literally said they won 3 super bowls and went all in, which is why they were in cap hell after that stretch...I literally just showed you they werent. Youre just rambling at this point. Regardless of how many years you want to go back, Youre notion that they pushed everything into the future, isnt backed up by the financials, at least from cap/salary experts

 

[upstater1]

You literally said they won 3 super bowls and went all in, which is why they were in cap hell after that stretch...I literally just showed you they werent. Youre just rambling at this point. Regardless of how many years you want to go back, Youre notion that they pushed everything into the future, isnt backed up by the financials, at least from cap/salary experts

No, I didn't say that. I said that about the last Super Bowl.

Go back and see the origin of this discussion. It is about selling out for the 2019 Super Bowl. Not earlier Super Bowls.

It is you who extended the period in question to 2014 drafts through 2021. That's when I mentioned that we won 3 Super Bowls during that period of poor drafts. That has nothing to do with our salary cap troubles. You're confusing things.
Hell, Stephon Gilmore wasn't even on the team for the 2014 Super Bowl victory.

 

[Tom Tupa]

Regarding Bill's succession plan at QB; I think he had one that would've worked out nicely with Jimmy, but Tom being unlike any QB in history and staying well past the standard expiration date basically ruined that (rightfully so).

If Stidham was the next succession plan, then that was obviously a dud.

The jury is still out on Mac, but let's say (I know it's far fetched, just play along) that he turns things around and wins a Super Bowl in the coming seasons. Then we'll look back and say Bill did a good job of replacing Brady in the grand scheme of things. I guess we'll see how things play out. If Mac fails, then yeah, the Brady succession was a failure.

 

[upstater1]

How the hell does Peyton win 2001? Do you think he would have won that Raiders even though he sucks in the snow?

In 2006 and 2013, sure he doesn't play himself, but the receiving core was trash. Maybe he wins 06, but in 2013 he's playing Seattle... who he lost to anyway. And I don't see him doing what Brady did l against Mahomes in 2018.

He also would have been bickering with Belichick at that point.

He wins 04, 06, and then at some point he and Belichick have a falling out

Go back and watch that game. Peyton was a better QB than Brady then. He would do better. Brady did not have a great game.

I got 2013 wrong. I meant 2015. we played and lost to them in both years.

 

[Pape]

It's because we call Belichick the GOAT.

A strong measure of being the GOAT in any team sport is if your success is too strongly tied to one other person.

You know people wanted to see Brady win without Bill? Well Brady did.

So people wanna see Belichick do something without Brady - especially since Belichick has the reputation of being a guy "that can win with anyone".

If the Pats don't return to being a real threat, it won't look good for Bill. Because then the question will be "how do we know you would have been the GOAT if you didn't have Brady for 20 years?"

Especially since some of those coaches you brought up... their QBs didn't last 20 years. Landry could have 6 rings if Staubach didn't play for only 9 seasons...

Also, those coaches still had deep playoff runs without their Best QBs. Landry still made multiple title games and NFL championships without Staubach.

Belichick has 1 playoff win out of 10 seasons without Brady.

starr lasted 16 seasons
montana 15
marino 17

so longevity plays its role... its not like all that those guys accomplished happened in a decade or less...Lombardi was out green bay a year after their last super bowl... and out of the NFL three years after his last super bowl... and Landry did not win multiple nfl championships without staubach... Danny white, the heir apparent was a veteran player who had 4 seasons on the bench behind staubach before he became the starter... development time, no? a luxury not really afforded to modern day nfl teams given free agency and the cost to keep players who have shown flashed of talent... where as before worst case scenario was Plan B...

so, pretty words you type... but ultimately that say you don't actually know what you are talking about...

so Brady won without Bill... great for him ... he went to a team that had all the pieces in place... Tom had to do exactly what? play football. which we all know hes great at...

What has Bill had to do? Replace the, as everyone says, the Goat. Not an easy task. would it be fair to say a much more complicated task? I think it would. Rebuilding a team is more difficult in the modern era because the NFL has tilted the playing field towards parity... While BB has made mistakes, what coach hasn't? What front office hasn't?

You offer just another shallow analysis with no thought to the complexities of running an organization.

so If BB wants to be here, he will be here. RKK knows exactly what an unstable front office means to an organization. and spending 60 million over three seasons while BB chases down Shula with 9 or 10 wins a season? Thats not even ten percent of the Ownership haul of the TV contracts let alone all the other revenue streams generated by an NFL franchise... Chump change for a coach/gm that oversaw the Patriots growing from one of the least valuable franchises to the second most valuable NFL franchise

 

[All3Phases]

No, I didn't say that. I said that about the last Super Bowl.

Go back and see the origin of this discussion. It is about selling out for the 2019 Super Bowl. Not earlier Super Bowls.

You are literally saying their management in 2019 and 2020 put them in cap hell...Again, i gave you the numbers that prove it didnt

It is you who extended the period in question to 2014 drafts through 2021. That's when I mentioned that we won 3 Super Bowls during that period of poor drafts. That has nothing to do with our salary cap troubles. You're confusing things.
Hell, Stephon Gilmore wasn't even on the team for the 2014 Super Bowl victory.

The drafts was a different discussion, that is my opinion on why the roster depleted, which led to the excuse making from the team.

 

[All3Phases]

so Brady won without Bill... great for him ... he went to a team that had all the pieces in place... Tom had to do exactly what? play football. which we all know hes great at...

This is funny logic too, he went to a team that went 7-9 and missed the playoffs for over a decade straight...with mediocre coaching and a horrible football structure. All of a sudden he went to a wagon. Before he signed they were +6500 to win the super bowl, the Jags had better odds...What a wagon

What has Bill had to do? Replace the, as everyone says, the Goat. Not an easy task. would it be fair to say a much more complicated task? I think it would. Rebuilding a team is more difficult in the modern era because the NFL has tilted the playing field towards parity... While BB has made mistakes, what coach hasn't? What front office hasn't?

The rebuild is over, the defense is loaded and they spent 200 mil on players...just turns out having a great roster doesnt really matter when the quarterback isnt really really good?

You offer just another shallow analysis with no thought to the complexities of running an organization.

 

[Pape]

This is funny logic too, he went to a team that went 7-9 and missed the playoffs for over a decade straight...with mediocre coaching and a horrible football structure. All of a sudden he went to a wagon. Before he signed they were +6500 to win the super bowl, the Jags had better odds...What a wagon

Go look at that roster... What was the final piece? Go do your home work then get back to me.

The rebuild is over, the defense is loaded and they spent 200 mil on players...just turns out having a great roster doesnt really matter when the quarterback isnt really really good?

You cant even say with surety that Mac is going to be the guy to ultimately replace Brady... so pardon me if I believe the above statement about the rebuild being "over" is idiotic

 

[All3Phases]

Go look at that roster and get back to me.

All i have to do is look at the odds from before and after he signed...Since when do patriot fans obsess over fantasy players? You used to make fun of them, now its the reason why they were loaded! They were 50-1 before Brady went to Tampa, the day he signed, they went to 18-1 odds. But again, read the names on the roster and tell me thats how you win football games

You cant even say with surety that Mac is going to be the guy to ultimately replace Brady... so pardon me if I believe the above statement is full of sht.

So if you need to replace one guy, then youre still rebuilding? Read me the names on the roster? The last 2 years theyve had a dominant defense among the best in the league, they have the most expensive Tight end room in the league and one of the most expensive receiver rooms in the league...Just think, if Brady was still here theyd be a super team!

 

[Pape]

All i have to do is look at the odds from before and after he signed...Since when do patriot fans obsess over fantasy players? You used to make fun of them, now its the reason why they were loaded! They were 50-1 before Brady went to Tampa, the day he signed, they went to 18-1 odds. But again, read the names on the roster and tell me thats how you win football games

Right... what dis the odds tell you? That they went from an also ran to a favorite after Brady landed there.

So if you need to replace one guy, then youre still rebuilding? Read me the names on the roster? The last 2 years theyve had a dominant defense among the best in the league, they have the most expensive Tight end room in the league and one of the most expensive receiver rooms in the league...Just think, if Brady was still here theyd be a super team!

If its the qb? Yes.

dont equate cost of free agency to the quality of the roster. All that money? basically brought the roster back to par - and i shouldnt have to tell you this. Its not rocket science.

 

[All3Phases]

Right... what dis the odds tell you? That they went from an also ran to a favorite after Brady landed there.

No idea what this means, but it tells me the roster was so good, they were amongst the 10 worst teams in the leagues based on odds

If its the qb? Yes.

dont equate cost of free agency to the quality of the roster. All that money? basically brought the roster back to par - and i shouldnt have to tell you this. Its not rocket science.

This is a franchise that thought theyd continue to have the same success with any top 15 qb in the league...This is what they get. Again, plop Brady on this roster and theyre competing for a super bowl...Without him it just looks like a mediocre roster. Funny how that works the other way around...Sounds like Tampa

 

[Pape]

No idea what this means, but it tells me the roster was so good, they were amongst the 10 worst teams in the leagues based on odds

If you dont know what it means, then dont bring it up. Its not on me to explain simple things to you.

This is a franchise that thought theyd continue to have the same success with any top 15 qb in the league...

No, this is your biased assumption. at no point ever did BB make that statement.

 

[All3Phases]

If you dont know what it means, then dont bring it up. Its not on me to explain simple things to you.

Nothing you said had any facts to counter my argument, if thats your way of debating then I wish you the best...I will say it again 50-1 to 18-1 because of one person...How good was that 50-1 roster? Not as good as the current patriots roster, thats for sure

No, this is your biased assumption. at no point ever did BB make that statement.

You missed half of my response, but its also in Ian OConners book...I didnt make that up out of thin air. Youve admitted the qb is the most important part of the roster, we have the same biases

 

[upstater1]

You are literally saying their management in 2019 and 2020 put them in cap hell...Again, i gave you the numbers that prove it didnt

What are you talking about? We all know they were up against the cap that year. You gave me a 4 year period when they had much more maneuvering ability.

Here, look at this: 15 biggest salary cap hits for the Patriots in 2020, including Tom Brady and Antonio Brown

Also, consider what happened in 2020. The Covid pandemic caused an even bigger contraction. 2020 became a lost year since the salary cap contracted by $20m. It's for this very reason that the Patriots were able to land a player like Judon because so many of the other teams were strapped.

Here's another article: A LOSING FORMULA: Patriots salary-cap problems begin with the draft

I'm not sure why this is even a mystery. Go back and look at the Super Bowl roster, and then check to see what happened to all those vets making big salaries by 2020. They were off the team. We were looking at big dead cap hits. You can just look at the rosters and tick the players off one by one.

They COULD HAVE made salary cap space, by signing those players to longer team deals and pushing their salaries into the future. They chose not to do that. They chose to bite the bullet instead.

 

[Pape]

Nothing you said had any facts to counter my argument, if thats your way of debating then I wish you the best...I will say it again 50-1 to 18-1 because of one person...How good was that 50-1 roster? Not as good as the current patriots roster, thats for sure

The bucs added a quarterback in brady... do you understand that? Good. Then the odds of winning the sb dropped dramatically. You understand that? What does that tell you about the quality of that roster? That the only thing they needed was a qb to dramatically change their chances to win it all. Do you understand that? It was adding Brady to an offense that totaled 5100 receiving yards... what did them in in 2019 was the 30 ints ... which under brady you knew were going to get at the very least cut in half...

do you understand any of this? These are fairly simple concepts...

You missed half of my response, but its also in Ian OConners book...I didnt make that up out of thin air. Youve admitted the qb is the most important part of the roster, we have the same biases

No, I didnt miss it. I ignored un-sourced rumors that make for good clickbait. and Ian Oconnor? wasnt he the guy who wrote "The Patriots will regret hiring Belichick"?

yeah... so there's that...

and we may agree qb is the most important position, but i wasnt the one who said the rebuild was over when there are very definite concerns that Mac is going to be the guy...

have a nice day

 

[captain stone]

The goal for every draft is to land 2 starters and 2 reserves. That quote is from Ron Wolff.

By that standard Bill has done fine.

You don't go to 7 straight conference championships drafting poorly.

On average teams miss on 73% of their picks.

Fans forget how hard the draft is.

You can't land top talent in the draft picking 28-32 every year.

2019 was horrible. That is acknowledged

I was hoping you would end your post with And please don't call me Shirley...

 

[captain stone]

Sure you can. There are stars in this league that were found in the late first and early second round.

And beyond...

The whole We pick at the bottom of every round every year excuse just isn't true anyway... Look how often Bill has moved during the course of a draft, pretty much Every year...

 

[StrawHatPatriot]

Its because theres people on forums that will say things like, this qb wouldve won 10 SBs here, or 5 here under BB...Nobody says that with SF in the 80s, etc...The team has also placed a ton of value on their system, and they let you know about it. So when it backfires, this is what you get

Exactly

Heck, people who say Elway or Marino would have won with the 49ers.... they don't discount Montana by saying he's wouldn't have won anything anywhere else. There's still people (including Pats fans!) On the internet that say Brady wouldn't have even had a career if it weren't for Belichick