Bill Belichick: Highest Paid Coach in North American Sports at $20m per

[All3Phases]

You asked a hypothetical and then you critique me for answering it.

It's not reality you say.

Then don't ask the hypothetical.

This is bizarro world on this board today

I dont remember asking you anything tbh...I dont usually base my opinions in alternate dimensions

But if I did, then my bad

 

[All3Phases]

Again--we're talking about going all in to win championships. Stay on subject. You have to pay the piper. The team started a tear down in 2020 BECAUSE of what they did prior to that. We're talking about being strapped because of the cap.

There’s literally no reasoning based on financials as to what you are saying

 

[crawhammer]

I absolutely think Manning would have won at least 4-5 SBs with Belichick. Guy won 2 SBs with Tony Dungy and John Fox.

You're ignoring the FACT that Peyton Manning was a TERRIBLE Super Bowl performer.

Peyton Manning in the Super Bowl:
4 games
3 TDs
5 INTs
250 Y/G
77.4 passer rating

Peyton had 1 noteworthy completion in SB 41 and it was to an uncovered receiver. They beat the Bears, one of the worst Super Bowl teams ever.
Peyton completely choked in SB 44... his awful pick six effectively ended the game.
Peyton with all of his gaudy record-breaking regular season numbers in 2013 delivered a major dud in SB 48... he got thoroughly embarrassed by a defense that Brady would topple in the following Super Bowl.
Peyton delivered one of the most inept performances of a winning quarterback in SB 50... a measly 141 yards, 0 TDs, 1 INT and a 56.6 passer rating.

In fact Peyton stunk entirely in the two postseasons he won a Super Bowl ring...
2006: 4 games, 3 TDs, 7 INTs, 259 Y/G, 70.5 passer rating
2015: 3 games, 2 TDs, 1 INT, 180 Y/G, 75.4 passer rating

With the kind of postseason track record that Peyton has, no head coach in the history of the NFL would have won 4-5 Super Bowls with him.

Brady on the other hand is the exact opposite of Peyton when it comes to postseason and Super Bowl performances.

Tom Brady in the Super Bowl:
10 games
21 TDs
6 INTs
304 Y/G
97.7 passer rating

 

[Steve102]

at least you are honest about it.

You know I was being sarcastic, right?

(The nepotism thing does bug me.)

 

[upstater1]

There’s literally no reasoning based on financials as to what you are saying

There is a reasoning. Jason, whoever he is, is saying they could've done it other ways. We all know that. It's always a decision on WHEN to bite the bullet. No one here is saying the Patriots regularly do this anyway. We've said the opposite. The Patriots DO NOT manage their cap in that fashion normally. In 2019-2020, they did! That's all we're saying. They went into cap hell.They could've resigned all those aging stars and strapped the team for several years to come, IF THEY WANTED TO.

 

[upstater1]

I dont remember asking you anything tbh...I dont usually base my opinions in alternate dimensions

But if I did, then my bad

I didn't mean it was you. It was StrawHatPatriot that was talking about what would happen if Manning were with the Patriots.

I replied to him and you replied to my reply to him.

 

[All3Phases]

There is a reasoning. Jason, whoever he is, is saying they could've done it other ways. We all know that. It's always a decision on WHEN to bite the bullet. No one here is saying the Patriots regularly do this anyway. We've said the opposite. The Patriots DO NOT manage their cap in that fashion normally. In 2019-2020, they did! That's all we're saying. They went into cap hell.They could've resigned all those aging stars and strapped the team for several years to come, IF THEY WANTED TO.

He created OTC. Again, I know what youre saying...the Financials disagree. Saying it to say it isnt backing anything up. Thats the cash spending from 2016-2020. Somehow being towards the back half of the league in spending led them to be in cap hell?

Again, nothing in the financials or spending result in being cap constrained

 

[StrawHatPatriot]

He wins 2001 and 2018. I'd also say that later in his career, Peyton did become clutch, once he stopped going downfield exclusively. The best thing for him was playing with Wes Welker. He wins against the Eagles in 2004 because 1/2 the QBs in the league could win that game. 2003 and 2014 he loses.

So, if Manning were in New England, I'd say he would have won 2001, 2004, 2006, 2013, 2018. That's 5. He would've lost 2003, 2014, 2016. 2 of those he would have won because he wouldn't have lost to Peyton Manning. Don't know about 2007 and 2011. Not sure he would play to 2018 however.

How the hell does Peyton win 2001? Do you think he would have won that Raiders even though he sucks in the snow?

In 2006 and 2013, sure he doesn't play himself, but the receiving core was trash. Maybe he wins 06, but in 2013 he's playing Seattle... who he lost to anyway. And I don't see him doing what Brady did l against Mahomes in 2018.

He also would have been bickering with Belichick at that point.

He wins 04, 06, and then at some point he and Belichick have a falling out

 

[Pape]

You know I was being sarcastic, right?

(The nepotism thing does bug me.)

nope, completely missed it.

your post
----------
my head

 

[Real fan 02]

At this point, going back a few years now, there have just been far too many unaccountable, downright weird at times, terrible decisions on the part of Bill Belichick. I won't list them all. You know what they are.

When I see Bill these days, I see a different guy. His methods, at least to the extent that he still has the stamina to stick to them, no longer work; and at his age, it's just not in the cards to change them. (I'm older than Bill: I know the feeling.) What seems like stubborness, or firmness of resolve if you like, is really just desperation, even a sense of being a little lost. You see it in his eyes. You see him unable at times to play quite the angry bear he once did.

I think it's time for Bill to go. When I retired, I knew it was time to go: I think Bill knows as well. I hope it can be managed in a way that honors his past accomplishments, and I'll be an eager participant in celebrations of his accomplishment after the fact, but it must be done.

Valid points made. I'll say that BB always had the players, the leaders the alphas that were coaches on the field. That's largely why the decisions haven't been working out. We all know the team had to rebuild post brady. According to ownership when they spent in free agency they felt they were rebuilt and ready to compete! Making the playoffs, seeing promise from a rookie QB gave us all hope we could build off last season.

BB who's the chief decision maker on personel ect. As reported refuted the patriots scouts when it came to the draft.

Is why Kraft said the drafting process is a collaborative approach. He's the GOAT of coaches, but the coaches today of winning franchise show other ways to win and have success!

 

[Real fan 02]

I look at Bill as comparable to Andy Reid. Reid had one losing season in his last 7 years in Philadelphia and was fired. In the 9 full seasons since then, the Eagles have had 3 losing seasons and gone through four other coaches. They've also won a Super Bowl, which they didn't under Reid, so maybe it was worth it. Reid, meanwhile, jumped to the Chiefs and hasn't had a losing season since, and has also won the Super Bowl.

Difference is Andy Reid is just the head coach where he focus can soley on talent evaluation, and being the best head coach he can be.. BB has had alot power and alot on his plate, contracts, staffing, players.

After a while even the strongest have weak moments. The krafts have entrusted him with the ability to run thier franchise. The Kraft clock ?? is ticking though...

 

[mike_usagisan]

Difference is Andy Reid is just the head coach where he focus can soley on talent evaluation, and being the best head coach he can be.. BB has had alot power and alot on his plate, contracts, staffing, players.

After a while even the strongest have weak moments. The krafts have entrusted him with the ability to run thier franchise. The Kraft clock ?? is ticking though...

Oh, agreed. I just thought it was an interesting comparable where Reid was given an even shorter leash in Philly before he was fired. The example also shows that replacing Reid was both a positive (Super Bowl win) and a negative (more losing seasons) for Philly while Reid went on to more success in Kansas City.

 

[lancerman]

Do you think Kraft is into getting bad value for his money?

I think it doesn't matter as far as team quality. Kraft has to pay the salary cap whatever it is as an owner. That's a negotiated condition the owners have with the NFLPA. Him thinking Belichick is overpaid COULD be a thing, but the reality is whatever he pays Bill has zero bearing on team construction whatsoever.

And the truth is, if Kraft tried that, it would just be to penny pinch. Bill could walk tomorrow, Kraft could hire a cheaper head coach. Then Kraft would still have to pay the same amount to the roster. It would only exist to help Kraft personally

 

[StrawHatPatriot]

In hindsight, yes they could've signed Brady and kept him. Easy to say when you are tearing down the team and rebuilding it, but you're shooting for 2022-2023-2024, when Brady would've been 45, 46, 47.

Back in 2019 when we had a poor offense for half the year, you'd have to have faith that Brady could hold on beyond age 42, 43 or 44. And faith also that he would stick it out despite pressures from family.

That's a lot to hang your hat on.

Not to mention that half the posters here bagging on Belichick for letting Brady go were saying, back in '19, that the Patriots should never have let Garoppolo go!

They had an odd succession plan though.

 

[Real fan 02]

Oh, agreed. I just thought it was an interesting comparable where Reid was given an even shorter leash in Philly before he was fired. The example also shows that replacing Reid was both a positive (Super Bowl win) and a negative (more losing seasons) for Philly while Reid went on to more success in Kansas City.

Yes of course absolutely I agree with all the facts you mentioned also.

I just feel like this season is all for nothing. What real progression was made? Only positives were the rookies made a real impact, most notably Marcus Jones. Wich is a great thing going forward.

We need some games breakers, the 3rd and 4th tier WR era is a thing of the past. We need bona-fide studs. I would like to make a trade for Hopkins.. his deal is reasonable. Also on defense trade for Ramsey, BB his defenses always had that lock down corner.

 

[Grogan14]

Difference is Andy Reid is just the head coach where he focus can soley on talent evaluation, and being the best head coach he can be.. BB has had alot power and alot on his plate, contracts, staffing, players.

After a while even the strongest have weak moments. The krafts have entrusted him with the ability to run thier franchise. The Kraft clock ?? is ticking though...

Perhaps BB should have realized that he could not BOTH coach and serve as GM and do it well after Brady left. Can not blame it on Kraft. Its up to BB to realize his limits.
The lack of post Brady succession planning is egregious. The "I will figure it out when the time comes" approach has been a colossal failure.

In anticipation of Brady leaving he absolutely should have drafted Lamar Jackson instead of Sony...BB even admitted that he loved Jackson coming out...so no excuse. This is not "Monday morning QB'ing either" so many on this board were pleading with Bill to take Jackson as pick 31 came up on the board. Most realized that Brady leaving was a likely possibility after he sold his home and had not been extended.

He also could have drafted Jaylen Hurts (instead of Duggar). However for some reason BB did not see that the game was changing to an era of successful mobile qb's and he decided to stick with the "statue in the pocket" model, that worked well with the GOAT but not so much anymore.
The end result of his stubbornness and inability to adapt could be another 5 years (or until they get a dynamic QB in here) until Pats can seriously contend again.

 

[Real fan 02]

Perhaps BB should have realized that he could not BOTH coach and serve as GM and do it well after Brady left. Can not blame it on Kraft. Its up to BB to realize his limits.
The lack of post Brady succession planning is egregious. The "I will figure it out when the time comes" approach has been a colossal failure.

In anticipation of Brady leaving he absolutely should have drafted Lamar Jackson instead of Sony...BB even admitted that he loved Jackson coming out...so no excuse.

He also could have drafted Jaylen Hurts (instead of Duggar). However for some reason BB did not see that the game was changing to an era of successful mobile fb's and he decided to stick with the "statue in the pocket" model, that worked we'll with the GOAT but not so much anymore.

Right! Is why I mentioned Kraft entrusted BB with the ability to make decisions for his franchise. Those decisions BB made with Brady were easier to make because Brady was the ultimate equalizer.

As far as the draft picks you mentioned you are correct, is why kraft had groh included with the team's drafting. As Seth wickersham mentioned the team started to loose confidence in BB ability to identify talent, and actually draft talent.

Of course not all BBs draft picks were bust.

GM and coach are two totally seperate jobs in a organization and 1 person shouldn't be doing both in this era of sports. Is why we don't see that around the NFL, We are now seeing the decisions BB is making notably with his staff now that we don't have Brady. Brady would supercede Patricia and we'd at least have a functional offense.

As Mac doesn't have the pedigree to do such is why he was, and is at odds with the decisions made. Can't blame him!

 

[StrawHatPatriot]

Almost every great coach has had great players.
Lombardi had Starr.
Shula has griese and Marino.
Walsh had Montana.
Laundry had staubach
Parcels had LT
Reid had mcnadd and mahomes

Only a few were consistent winners without the great QB

I don't understand why people here are so willing (eager it seems) to separate Belichick and Brady and what they accomplished together. It's not one or the other. It was both of them. It's myopic not to recognize that.

It's because we call Belichick the GOAT.

A strong measure of being the GOAT in any team sport is if your success isn't too strongly tied to one other person.

You know how people wanted to see Brady win without Bill? Well Brady did.

So people wanna see Belichick do something without Brady - especially since Belichick has the reputation of being a guy "that can win with anyone".

If the Pats don't return to being a real threat, it won't look good for Bill. Because then the question will be "how do we know you would have been the GOAT if you didn't have Brady for 20 years?"

Especially since some of those coaches you brought up... their QBs didn't last 20 years. Landry could have 6 rings if Staubach didn't play for only 9 seasons...

Also, those coaches still had deep playoff runs without their Best QBs. Landry still made multiple title games and NFL championships without Staubach.

Belichick has 1 playoff win out of 10 seasons without Brady.

 

[All3Phases]

I think it doesn't matter as far as team quality. Kraft has to pay the salary cap whatever it is as an owner. That's a negotiated condition the owners have with the NFLPA. Him thinking Belichick is overpaid COULD be a thing, but the reality is whatever he pays Bill has zero bearing on team construction whatsoever.

And the truth is, if Kraft tried that, it would just be to penny pinch. Bill could walk tomorrow, Kraft could hire a cheaper head coach. Then Kraft would still have to pay the same amount to the roster. It would only exist to help Kraft personally

But you keep going back to the roster, do you think Kraft enjoys having bad value on his budget? Its a forum debate, none of it matters...But we can talk about why one guy is the highest paid coach in the league based off his past, but he doesnt hold that standard for everybody else...Regardless of whos money it is, somebody cares

 

[All3Phases]

It's because we call Belichick the GOAT.

A strong measure of being the GOAT in any team sport is if your success is too strongly tied to one other person.

You know people wanted to see Brady win without Bill? Well Brady did.

So people wanna see Belichick do something without Brady - especially since Belichick has the reputation of being a guy "that can win with anyone".

If the Pats don't return to being a real threat, it won't look good for Bill. Because then the question will be "how do we know you would have been the GOAT if you didn't have Brady for 20 years?"

Especially since some of those coaches you brought up... their QBs didn't last 20 years. Landry could have 6 rings if Staubach didn't play for only 9 seasons...

Also, those coaches still had deep playoff runs without their Best QBs. Landry still made multiple title games and NFL championships without Staubach.

Belichick has 1 playoff win out of 10 seasons without Brady.

Its because theres people on forums that will say things like, this qb wouldve won 10 SBs here, or 5 here under BB...Nobody says that with SF in the 80s, etc...The team has also placed a ton of value on their system, and they let you know about it. So when it backfires, this is what you get