Mac: "I want to be coached harder"

[Actual Pats Fan]

Those 80's early 90s Redskins (no offense but that was their name) had a GREAT offense. Gibbs was a Gilman/Coryell guy but LOVED his running game.

Yeah when he was the RB coach for Don in St. Louis they pounded it when they could, they didn't just put everything on Hart's shoulders.

Now, the primary asset for that 'Skins O-line was chemistry and camaraderie. They worked out together during the strike, and personal trust in each other put them over the top. It's why despite still being talented, Sullivan dealing Gray in '79 was so devastating to us.

The foundation for everything is the head coach must be COMMITTED to the run.

NOT the ego of the first round drafted QB.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Yeah when he was the RB coach for Don in St. Louis they pounded it when they could, they didn't just put everything on Hart's shoulders.

Now, the primary asset for that 'Skins O-line was chemistry and camaraderie. They worked out together during the strike, and personal trust in each other put them over the top. It's why despite still being talented, Sullivan dealing Gray in '79 was so devastating to us.

The foundation for everything is the head coach must be COMMITTED to the run.

NOT the ego of the first round drafted QB.

Thats the thing growing up in the 80s is the great teams always had the same dudes on the oline.

I can still recite some of those hogs lines. Jacoby, Grimm, Bostic, May, Theilmann....

 

[Real fan 02]

They were better when he left. He's overrated.

I now understand more than ever why NFL owners hire coaches and GMs not 1 to do both jobs.. as it empowers that person to make moves like this that setback and organization

 

[TheRainMaker]

It's just a philosophy. Charlie was off/on with the FB. Had Edwards and McCray as the hammers but also liked the guys who could catch like Centers and Pass who were FB in name only. Loved Edwards when he was here.

Josh had that same philosophy. Evans, Develin, etc

Bob did not. They really didn't have a FB.

Not sure who decided Jakob didn't fit in the offense's plans but it was not a good one IMO.

Richie Anderson was on the fence between NE and Dallas in 2003. He chose to stay loyal to Parcells. I bet he regrets that decision.

 

[Real fan 02]

Richie Anderson was on the fence between NE and Dallas in 2003. He chose to stay loyal to Parcells. I bet he regrets that decision.

Ty law stated even when the coaches messed up, it was always on the players to execute. What's happening to this patriots team is not having the players or the coaches to do so.

 

[Real fan 02]

The interior OL is serviceable, and if Hines and Russey are OK, that area is OK. The tackles are abysmal. Cajuste and Brown can only be backups. Need 2 new guys. I assume our 1st round pick is a tackle.

Can find tackles in free agency, this team needs to draft talent at the skill positions.. don't need a rehaul as we have some pieces in place due to finally hitting on draft picks.. on defense find a way to trade for Ramsey, need that lock down corner.. allen and Diggs played catch with the secondary..

on offense another burner at WR would take this offense where it needs to be..

 

[captain stone]

Caley would've made sense before the season began, having served under McDaniels. How does he pick up the pieces from Patricia's non-system going into next year? I think they need a full re-set a la an experienced guy like BOB. Unless they think Caley is capable of that, which would be a tall order. Fixing this mess will be a pretty big job. It's like the Three Stooges tried to build a house and the whole thing must be demolished, including foundation, blueprints -- all of it.

Here's Bill, Matt & Joe building the the new offense during the offseason, OTAs & TC:

youtube 3 stooges building a house

 

[captain stone]

They never should have let Jakob go.

I'm really kind of shocked that they haven't picked up a FB, even on the practice squad, just to improve the run game down the stretch. Seems like a no brainer.

I wish they had also taken a longer look at Ben Mason, and/or that Never Seen Keene had developed as they had originally hoped.

Kyle Jusczyk is the prototype of the modern FB in today's pass-favoring league, and we really, Really need one of those dudes here.

 

[venecol]

Warner on the play concepts:

“This year, it’s very basic and simple,” said Warner, via the Boston Herald’s Karen Guregian. “That doesn’t mean it’s bad. But for a guy like me, I’d be bored to death. I’d hate to have the same concepts over and over, even if they’re good quality concepts. I like creativity. I like options as a quarterback. And, they don’t do a lot of that.”

Belichick:

“I think we need to do what we’re doing better. I don’t think at this point making a lot of dramatic changes; it’s too hard to do that,” said Belichick,

The question is, if they are running the same quality simple concepts over and over, why can't the players perform them better?

Is it a matter of lack of talent? Poor execution? Ds figuring them out?

I'm not ready to assign the bulk of the blame on the coaching, albeit they are one of the problems. We can criticize the coaching all we want, but we've all seen passes being over thrown, dropped, not throwing to open receivers, penalties on the OL, etc. Bill has a point, players need to execute better.

 

[Rob0729]

Warner on the play concepts:

“This year, it’s very basic and simple,” said Warner, via the Boston Herald’s Karen Guregian. “That doesn’t mean it’s bad. But for a guy like me, I’d be bored to death. I’d hate to have the same concepts over and over, even if they’re good quality concepts. I like creativity. I like options as a quarterback. And, they don’t do a lot of that.”

Belichick:

“I think we need to do what we’re doing better. I don’t think at this point making a lot of dramatic changes; it’s too hard to do that,” said Belichick,

The question is, if they are running the same quality simple concepts over and over, why can't the players perform them better?

Is it a matter of lack of talent? Poor execution? Ds figuring them out?

I'm not ready to assign the bulk of the blame on the coaching, albeit they are one of the problems. We can criticize the coaching all we want, but we've all seen passes being over thrown, dropped, not throwing to open receivers, penalties on the OL, etc. Bill has a point, players need to execute better.

Simple system isn't the issue. It is the overall strategy which is Patricia basically flipping a coin to pick plays.

The Bills game is a perfect example of him not knowing what he is doing. The first drive of the third quarter he ran four times in a row with Stevenson getting huge gains on the first three drives (7, 6, and 11 yards) and the fourth run he get stuffed for a four yard loss. They don't run another running play for the rest of the game. Literally, the last running play the Pats ran was five and a half minutes into the third quarter. Don't even try to run after that. And the Bills were in a cover 2 most of the game and the Pats ran a total of 11 times with designed runs.

But we have seen this all season. The Pats would be effective with Jones lining up under center in the open field and the second they get inside the 30, they put Jones in the shotgun and telegraph the plays.

I am absolutely ready to blame the coaching for a bulk of the problems with this offense. As Mike Lombardi says (who is close to Belichick) that it is "obvious" the Pats "don't have an offense, they just run a bunch of plays".

 

[Real fan 02]

Here's Bill, Matt & Joe building the the new offense during the offseason, OTAs & TC:

youtube 3 stooges building a house

Titans, fired thier GM today. Not saying it's going to happen with us. But I'm sure BB took notice!

 

[venecol]

Simple system isn't the issue. It is the overall strategy which is Patricia basically flipping a coin to pick plays.

The Bills game is a perfect example of him not knowing what he is doing. The first drive of the third quarter he ran four times in a row with Stevenson getting huge gains on the first three drives (7, 6, and 11 yards) and the fourth run he get stuffed for a four yard loss. They don't run another running play for the rest of the game. Literally, the last running play the Pats ran was five and a half minutes into the third quarter. Don't even try to run after that. And the Bills were in a cover 2 most of the game and the Pats ran a total of 11 times with designed runs.

But we have seen this all season. The Pats would be effective with Jones lining up under center in the open field and the second they get inside the 30, they put Jones in the shotgun and telegraph the plays.

I am absolutely ready to blame the coaching for a bulk of the problems with this offense. As Mike Lombardi says (who is close to Belichick) that it is "obvious" the Pats "don't have an offense, they just run a bunch of plays".

Ty Law disagrees with you. This team lacks talent compared to the better teams they face, on both sides of the ball. Used to be players were coached up, but now that's also lacking. There just aren't any clutch players.

“I gotta be honest with you, I’m disappointed,” Law said. “I didn’t have crazy expectations. I wasn’t thinking Super Bowl, but they have to play better than what they’re playing right now. You have to go to the playoffs — that’s what I was thinking. You want to see that continued growth. But, man, Buffalo put on a damn clinic on everything."

“I don’t know what team showed up for the Patriots. I know we all know what Josh Allen is; they had a chip on their shoulder; Stefon Diggs put on a clinic at wide receiver, just the routes he was running. … The secondary, they need some help. They’ve gotta step up and play better. I understand they make some plays, but they’re just not the type of team right now that you can count on — this guy or this guy — making the play and making them a better football team.”

 

[Stu Pidassle]

I'm really kind of shocked that they haven't picked up a FB, even on the practice squad, just to improve the run game down the stretch. Seems like a no brainer.

Part of the reasoning for moving away from the FB was that there were no longer being developed at the college level. If they are not going to have a FB, I wish they would use the TE out of the backfield more often.

 

[Rob0729]

Ty Law disagrees with you. This team lacks talent compared to the better teams they face, on both sides of the ball. Used to be players were coached up, but now that's also lacking. There just aren't any clutch players.

“I gotta be honest with you, I’m disappointed,” Law said. “I didn’t have crazy expectations. I wasn’t thinking Super Bowl, but they have to play better than what they’re playing right now. You have to go to the playoffs — that’s what I was thinking. You want to see that continued growth. But, man, Buffalo put on a damn clinic on everything."

“I don’t know what team showed up for the Patriots. I know we all know what Josh Allen is; they had a chip on their shoulder; Stefon Diggs put on a clinic at wide receiver, just the routes he was running. … The secondary, they need some help. They’ve gotta step up and play better. I understand they make some plays, but they’re just not the type of team right now that you can count on — this guy or this guy — making the play and making them a better football team.”

How is he disagreeing with me? Not based on this quote. He is talking about the defense. He doesn't mention the offense. He doesn't address whether the play calling is any good.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Thats the thing growing up in the 80s is the great teams always had the same dudes on the oline.

I can still recite some of those hogs lines. Jacoby, Grimm, Bostic, May, Theilmann....

Joe Bugel was the OC

 

[Rob0729]

FWIW, Kurt Warner (who people who are down on Jones were quoting last week to say Jones' mechanics are off) puts the blame on the play calling.

 

[Rob0729]

 

[cmasspatsfan]

I now understand more than ever why NFL owners hire coaches and GMs not 1 to do both jobs.. as it empowers that person to make moves like this that setback and organization

Except it worked for 20 years

 

[venecol]

FWIW, Kurt Warner (who people who are down on Jones were quoting last week to say Jones' mechanics are off) puts the blame on the play calling.

How does Warner saying "they are good quality concepts" translate to criticizing the play calling? He thinks they are simple and boring but that doesn't mean they can't work.

Anyway, the man has spoken. No changes. Period.

 

[Rob0729]

How does Warner saying "they are good quality concepts" translate to criticizing the play calling? He thinks they are simple and boring but that doesn't mean they can't work.

Anyway, the man has spoken. No changes. Period.

Warner said specifically the plays work against Jones' strengths. Call it play calling or strategy, Warner thinks Patricia is not putting Jones in the best position to succeed.

And I don't give a crap about what Belichick says in a press conference. Did you really think he would say that the offensive coaching sucks? After 20 plus years I cannot believe that anyone would use a Belichick press conference as proof of what he thinks about this team.

Let's see after the season who he sides with. Either Jones is gone or Patricia and Judge (although Patricia and Judge being gone will likely be that they are re-assigned to new positions). I am betting the latter will be gone and then we will know what Belichick really thinks.