This years draft haul

[PScottman]

That’s a whole lot of hog wash to justify.

I get real tired of seeing the homers try to put lipstick on a pig.

You seem to be very focused on porcines.

When someone actually is defending the player Jordan Richards will they be boar-ing you? Or are you just trying to sow discontent about the Patriots?

 

[cupofjoe1962]

You seem to be very focused on porcines.

When someone actually is defending the player Jordan Richards will they be boar-ing you? Or are you just trying to sow discontent about the Patriots?

When your talking about Jordan Richards you need to get muddy, cause your dealing with one ugly performance on the field.

If you don’t believe me, make a thread asking the opinion of the Jordan Richards 2nd round pick and see what type of response you get….

I dare you….. lol….

 

[PScottman]

If you don’t believe me, make a thread asking the opinion of the Jordan Richards 2nd round pick and see what type of response you get….

I dare you….. lol….

Why?

I never said word one indicating that Richards was a good PLAYER. He wasn't.

That has absolutely zero to do with the draft as a methodology of building a team, but you know that, can't defend that every team has multiple Jordan Richards they've picked and so keep trying to drag the discussion back to the only high ground you have.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

I think, regarding that quote, at the time, the idea was you can't just plug in a talented guy and to hell with everything else (e.g., if he's a team-averse guy in BB's eyes, his talent is unlikely to ultimately win the day. See Bourne, Kendrick--although his level of talent isn't proven to be better than Meyers-Parker-Agholor. He's not head and shoulders above that group, and he does all he can to drop down a level below them.) But also for example, if the fans are screaming about their favorite skill player at the college level BB might just have another idea of what pieces will fit better. You can't just say "he's a madden rating 99, he's got a madden rating of 98" etc.

I have no idea what you mean by "as you suggest, taking risks in the draft to based on potential talent goes against the team building philosophy." Part of that might be grammar, but that quote doesn't really treat with the question of risk -- if it does, it is fully in support of taking risks in the draft that support team building as envisioned: "We need this guy who can chip block on passing downs, and we'll pay a 4th round pick for him because we have to worry about Team X or Team Y. " Fans call it a reach, even though he wouldn't be there by the 5th, which comes out 5 days later, but a lie gets around the world before the truth gets its pants on. That's the book on it, some fantasy webpage repeats it, etc., all our experts quote the same rubbish. Why, he wasn't even "rated" to be drafted at all. Except he was. That's how you know your fantasy webpage was wrong. Say what you want about BB, but "he won't take risks in the draft" is just ridiculous. He's always pickng somebody weird.

But yeah, I think that not just BB, but all NFL coaches, are keenly aware that the draft is a crapshoot, in ways that fans often just seem unable to comprehend.

I was responding to your taunt "so you're saying that they fell into a trap by building a team without understanding that the goal is to collect talent?". Grammar aside, we may be saying the same thing. By definition the draft is based on collecting talent with no way of knowing how that individual fits into the team. Making risky picks in the attempt to maximize the talent collection is another step further away from building a cohesive roster based on merit.

 

[cupofjoe1962]

Why?

I never said word one indicating that Richards was a good PLAYER. He wasn't.

That has absolutely zero to do with the draft as a methodology of building a team, but you know that, can't defend that every team has multiple Jordan Richards they've picked and so keep trying to drag the discussion back to the only high ground you have.

Sorry …. Didn’t know you were a draft expert.

Just thought you were a lunatic trying to defend the Jordan Richards pick.

I don’t care how you spin it, we have done a terrible job drafting DB’s in the 2nd round since 2008

The jury is still out on Duggar who’s is clearly the best of the bunch.

Can you defend the Duke Dawson & JoeJuan Williams picks too?

What about Cyrus Jones?

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I was at the game vs Detroit

One good game vs the Lions does not erase all the mistakes he made in the past.

He is young and can still develop, but don’t say he hasn’t struggled vs the pass

It makes you look foolish

I didn't say Duggar hasn't struggled at times, all players entering the league struggle at times. You said Duggar was "horrible" and I said he was not "horrible". Now you say Duggar has "struggled" which is completely different from "horrible". Obviously you are changing your wording because you were wrong at first and are trying to walk back your original comments.

This has nothing to do with me looking foolish. The poster that is wrong and then tries to change the discussion is the one that looks foolish. It is OK to say "You are right, Duggar was not horrible - I misspoke, but he has to improve in my opinion." But that would be a balanced and honest response .

 

[PatsFanInVa]

I get real tired of seeing the homers try to put lipstick on a pig.

Jordan Richards was a special team player & a 2nd round pick on a special team player is not a good pick

Not to mention, that special team player name is not slater.

Sentence 1
"I get real tired of" - okay, thank you for alerting us to your upcoming emoitional outburst

"seeing the homers try to put lipstick on a pig"
- seeing [pejorative term for my perceived enemies] [pejorative term for making an argument I do not agree with]

So the non-emotional content to date: I do not like it when my perceived enemies disagree with me. Okay, well, that's fair. I hate fckin mortals being wrong all the time too.

Sentence 2:
More extremely important information about your thoughts on Jordan Richards.

I never actually was making any argument about Jordan Richards. I will point out that he drove an extra x minutes to avoid a y dollar bridge toll. I rest my case. In case you are wondering, that's tongue in cheek.

I don't know if anybody else here is focused on Richards. So you go ahead and find whoever wants Jordan Richards to look lik a good pick. I think he was meh. I think lots of 2nd rounders are meh or below.

I came to this late, but it looks like one of those canned "BB is crap" arguments, but I dunno. Or maybe that he can't draft? Or are you guys in a disagreement specifically about Jordan Richards as a pick?

Here's what I think. BB got brushed back before the draft last year. Then we got to see some Potempkin Process where the newly created Pats Borg Collective went around the room like the draft room was mission effing control on an Apollo launch ("flight is go for the Mac Jones pick..." "habitat is go for Mac Jones" "Propulsion is go..." etc.) I don't know how much of the process changed. I know the guy who hired Tom Brady and four or five guys who ended up playing QB in the NFL, drafted the best QB (as of year one) by picking the 5th QB picked. What else...?

Just Christian Seym... I mean BARMORE, Rhamondre the effin' BEAST Stevenson, to ccomplete a troika of bona fide draft HITS, and Ronnie Perkins, Josh Bledsoe, and Cam McGrone for guys who haven't crushed it yet. And I am not so sure Tre Nixon doesn't get on the field in a 17-game season. Oh how terrible. I am real tired of the douches who look at that draft and want to talk about how Ronnie Perkins isn't scaring anybody.

This year you can definitely look at Cool Strange (refusing to say Cole when the nickname is a one letter move), Marcus and Jack Jones, and Bailey Zappe as already showing signs of panning out. Strong and Other Harris are in the running now that our main Harris is out, and Ty (we'll figure out a rating later) Thornton has me jazzed based on pre-season.

Here's the main thing - if there WAS a house cleaning in how we draft, or even just a good swift kick in BB's butt and a directive to not let Nike draft, it seems to be yielding fantastic hauls.

SO here's my compromise: Meh, maybe BB needed the brushback. It's been a good couple of years. We were doing well for a few years, fell down to "meh" for a few years, and if you ax me, killed it (at least as of this writing) the last couple.

I think we have guys who want everything in Patriots drafting to be sooooooo horrible terrible unutterably rotten... but they're the same guys who show up to say who we "should of" drafted when we are getting good hauls, adding that they knew that we "should of" drafted Deebo Samuel that one time and we didn't.

So I mean, wtf about Jordan Richards? He played for a while, far from an all-pro, he was what he was.

Stipulated: We can't write the book on 21 and 22 yet. But the first few pages are great.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

I was responding to your taunt "so you're saying that they fell into a trap by building a team without understanding that the goal is to collect talent?". Grammar aside, we may be saying the same thing. By definition the draft is based on collecting talent with no way of knowing how that individual fits into the team. Making risky picks in the attempt to maximize the talent collection is another step further away from building a cohesive roster based on merit.

Oh,, I copped to the taunt early.

I don't think I get what you're saying really, let alone agree wiith it, fwiw, but who cares what I think. We're trying to figure out how to apply a single pithy statement to a process in NE.... I think what it comes down to is "I dont wanna hear your fanboy crap about why dont we buy X why dont we draft Y. I know he has an impressive body of work but I think of this team, or this year's team, and I go "nope." "

That could mean all sorts of stuff -- type of player, body type, attitude issues, "patriot type of player," etc.

Example - what if there are all these biggish LBs and DBs available? We're building a faster younger defense, so probably even if the greatest bulky linebacker ever born (according to your draft guide) is avail., that's not the direction we're going. Although, if he were the greatest one ever born by BB's lights... well who knows.

I mean, a cynic would say it means "I'll handle the draft, motherhubbard. You handle, well, you know, what you're usually handling."

 

[cupofjoe1962]

I didn't say Duggar hasn't struggled at times, all players entering the league struggle at times. You said Duggar was "horrible" and I said he was not "horrible". Now you say Duggar has "struggled" which is completely different from "horrible". Obviously you are changing your wording because you were wrong at first and are trying to walk back your original comments.

This has nothing to do with me looking foolish. The poster that is wrong and then tries to change the discussion is the one that looks foolish. It is OK to say "You are right, Duggar was not horrible - I misspoke, but he has to improve in my opinion." But that would be a balanced and honest response .

Duggar admitted he played bad vs the Dolphins.
Struggled vs Horrible - I will change my comment from horrible to struggled if it makes you feel better.

Either way…. It shows pass coverage is still an area of concern.

I would love to see hard work payoff and see him become a star.

I just comment on my view today.
Today coverage is still an area of concern.

I will give you the last word

 

[cupofjoe1962]

Sentence 1
"I get real tired of" - okay, thank you for alerting us to your upcoming emoitional outburst

"seeing the homers try to put lipstick on a pig"
- seeing [pejorative term for my perceived enemies] [pejorative term for making an argument I do not agree with]

So the non-emotional content to date: I do not like it when my perceived enemies disagree with me. Okay, well, that's fair. I hate fckin mortals being wrong all the time too.

Sentence 2:
More extremely important information about your thoughts on Jordan Richards.

I never actually was making any argument about Jordan Richards. I will point out that he drove an extra x minutes to avoid a y dollar bridge toll. I rest my case. In case you are wondering, that's tongue in cheek.

I don't know if anybody else here is focused on Richards. So you go ahead and find whoever wants Jordan Richards to look lik a good pick. I think he was meh. I think lots of 2nd rounders are meh or below.

I came to this late, but it looks like one of those canned "BB is crap" arguments, but I dunno. Or maybe that he can't draft? Or are you guys in a disagreement specifically about Jordan Richards as a pick?

Here's what I think. BB got brushed back before the draft last year. Then we got to see some Potempkin Process where the newly created Pats Borg Collective went around the room like the draft room was mission effing control on an Apollo launch ("flight is go for the Mac Jones pick..." "habitat is go for Mac Jones" "Propulsion is go..." etc.) I don't know how much of the process changed. I know the guy who hired Tom Brady and four or five guys who ended up playing QB in the NFL, drafted the best QB (as of year one) by picking the 5th QB picked. What else...?

Just Christian Seym... I mean BARMORE, Rhamondre the effin' BEAST Stevenson, to ccomplete a troika of bona fide draft HITS, and Ronnie Perkins, Josh Bledsoe, and Cam McGrone for guys who haven't crushed it yet. And I am not so sure Tre Nixon doesn't get on the field in a 17-game season. Oh how terrible. I am real tired of the douches who look at that draft and want to talk about how Ronnie Perkins isn't scaring anybody.

This year you can definitely look at Cool Strange (refusing to say Cole when the nickname is a one letter move), Marcus and Jack Jones, and Bailey Zappe as already showing signs of panning out. Strong and Other Harris are in the running now that our main Harris is out, and Ty (we'll figure out a rating later) Thornton has me jazzed based on pre-season.

Here's the main thing - if there WAS a house cleaning in how we draft, or even just a good swift kick in BB's butt and a directive to not let Nike draft, it seems to be yielding fantastic hauls.

SO here's my compromise: Meh, maybe BB needed the brushback. It's been a good couple of years. We were doing well for a few years, fell down to "meh" for a few years, and if you ax me, killed it (at least as of this writing) the last couple.

I think we have guys who want everything in Patriots drafting to be sooooooo horrible terrible unutterably rotten... but they're the same guys who show up to say who we "should of" drafted when we are getting good hauls, adding that they knew that we "should of" drafted Deebo Samuel that one time and we didn't.

So I mean, wtf about Jordan Richards? He played for a while, far from an all-pro, he was what he was.

Stipulated: We can't write the book on 21 and 22 yet. But the first few pages are great.

Wow…. You need a life dude !

Hopefully the teacher will put a star on your forehead.

You would like that, it’s obvious

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Duggar admitted he played bad vs the Dolphins.
Struggled vs Horrible - I will change my comment from horrible to struggled if it makes you feel better.

Either way…. It shows pass coverage is still an area of concern.

I would love to see hard work payoff and see him become a star.

I just comment on my view today.
Today coverage is still an area of concern.

I will give you the last word

It is not a matter of making me feel better. It is a matter of being respectful of the whole community, including the tremendous effort that @Ian puts in. We all make mistakes and overstate, no-one should be embarrassed when it happens because it happens to us all. Please try to understand that we post "words" because the "words" matter, so try to be balanced, respectful and humble. And when a mistake happens, simply state "I misspoke" - I do not think you were purposely lying.

 

[catent]

I was at the game vs Detroit

One good game vs the Lions does not erase all the mistakes he made in the past.

He is young and can still develop, but don’t say he hasn’t struggled vs the pass

It makes you look foolish




He struggled vs the Dolphins earlier this season & even he acknowledged his poor performance.

Kyle Dugger shoulders blame for Dolphins’ long touchdown against Patriots: ‘I didn’t do my job’

The safety was critical of his performance after the game.

www.patspulpit.com

You didn't say Dugger "struggles" in the passing game in your original post, you said he's "terrible", which is what the poster you're quoting was taking issue with.

Semantics, maybe ... but I don't think Dugger has been terrible against the pass. Struggled at times? Yes. You're right that he had issues against Miami, and in general his pass coverage is a part of his game that needs work. It's good to see he's playing better since then.

He's so darn athletic, I'd like to see him get the opportunity to play more in zone with eyes on the QB. The guy has ridiculous closing speed. I recall a flash of it against ... I want to say Philly (?), in a preseason game this or last season. He was in single-high and got overtop a boundary WR to breakup a pass in the endzone. It was impressive stuff when I saw it. Unfortunately we haven't seen much along those lines in a regular season game, but he does do a fantastic job against the run and has been solid in man coverage since the Miami struggles. No doubt he's a big asset to this team and defense. I hope he continues to grow his game.

 

[cupofjoe1962]

It is not a matter of making me feel better. It is a matter of being respectful of the whole community, including the tremendous effort that @Ian puts in. We all make mistakes and overstate, no-one should be embarrassed when it happens because it happens to us all. Please try to understand that we post "words" because the "words" matter, so try to be balanced, respectful and humble. And when a mistake happens, simply state "I misspoke" - I do not think you were purposely lying.

50,000 words later
Nothing has changed, other than you climbing on your soap box.

Saying a player is horrible against the pass is the right of being a fan and I am sure even Ian would agree, it does not need your approval.

Did I rain on your parade?

 

[catent]

You didn't say Dugger "struggles" in the passing game in your original post, you said he's "terrible", which is what the poster you're quoting was taking issue with.

Semantics, maybe ... but I don't think Dugger has been terrible against the pass. Struggled at times? Yes. You're right that he had issues against Miami, and in general his pass coverage is a part of his game that needs work. It's good to see he's playing better since then.

He's so darn athletic, I'd like to see him get the opportunity to play more in zone with eyes on the QB. The guy has ridiculous closing speed. I recall a flash of it against ... I want to say Philly (?), in a preseason game this or last season. He was in single-high and got overtop a boundary WR to breakup a pass in the endzone. It was impressive stuff when I saw it. Unfortunately we haven't seen much along those lines in a regular season game, but he does do a fantastic job against the run and has been solid in man coverage since the Miami struggles. No doubt he's a big asset to this team and defense. I hope he continues to grow his game.

Found the Dugger play against Philly I was referencing. 2021 preseason, week 2:

 

[catent]

Poyer has been battling injuries this season

Dugger has been injured this season, too.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

50,000 words later
Nothing has changed, other than you climbing on your soap box.

Saying a player is horrible against the pass is the right of being a fan and I am sure even Ian would agree, it does not need your approval.

Did I rain on your parade?

You said you would give me the last word. Haha. Can't help yourself. God be with you.

 

[cupofjoe1962]

You didn't say Dugger "struggles" in the passing game in your original post, you said he's "terrible", which is what the poster you're quoting was taking issue with.

Semantics, maybe ... but I don't think Dugger has been terrible against the pass. Struggled at times? Yes. You're right that he had issues against Miami, and in general his pass coverage is a part of his game that needs work. It's good to see he's playing better since then.

He's so darn athletic, I'd like to see him get the opportunity to play more in zone with eyes on the QB. The guy has ridiculous closing speed. I recall a flash of it against ... I want to say Philly (?), in a preseason game this or last season. He was in single-high and got overtop a boundary WR to breakup a pass in the endzone. It was impressive stuff when I saw it. Unfortunately we haven't seen much along those lines in a regular season game, but he does do a fantastic job against the run and has been solid in man coverage since the Miami struggles. No doubt he's a big asset to this team and defense. I hope he continues to grow his game.

This is hysterical
The “adjectives” police

There are no restrictions as far as I know on which adjective or noun you use to describe a players performance as long as the words are not profane.

I would hate to be that guy in 2009 who posted that Brady sucked today.

The word police will find you

 

[Jim Beankie]

Man, Sam Roberts hasn't even activated his binkie wonder powers yet. Once he does, then it'll be time for him to film some Chunky Soup commercials like the original guy.

/s - kindof

 

[cupofjoe1962]

You said you would give me the last word. Haha. Can't help yourself. God be with you.

Didn’t know your last post would be that pompous

Couldn’t let you get away with that nonsense

Prefer to rain on your parade

 

[Stu Pidassle]

I mean, a cynic would say it means "I'll handle the draft, motherhubbard. You handle, well, you know, what you're usually handlin