Pats Rebuild Intermittent View of Progress

[ivanvamp]

Not any more.

The way the game is being officiated today, it's more likely than not that if your defense is bending, it's gonna be breaking too; so negative plays -
i.e.: Sacks - are the best way to get your defense off the field ASAP, before the criminally incompetent zebras award their offense a bogus DPI or
RTP penalty...

On that note, check out this analysis from a few years ago:

A Closer Look: How Important Are Sacks? | PatsFans.com

Rushing the passer has been an integral part of the game ever since the invention of the forward pass.

www.patsfans.com

 

[203Pat]

2015 ugh. Yeah that was a collapse. That includes the Miami game with that really weird game plan to feature Steven Jackson and run the ball all the time in the first half even with Tom Brady at QB. Its like BB treated it as a meaningless preseason game and couldn't care less about getting the top seed. Didn't end well. At least with the wind game last year we know that game plan was done on purpose, not sure what the deal was that day.

2015 was such a wasted year due to some really stupid decisions by Bill. The Miami game you mentioned that had us on the road in Denver for the AFCCG. Sending Chris Harper out to return punts for the first time in his career in snowy Mile High. That ridiculous mortar kick for no reason that seemed to spark an Eagles comeback. Choosing to kick off in OT against the Jets late in the year. Then Bryan Stork seeming to tip the snap count in Denver during the AFCCG.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

Look at our pathetic 2019-2020 nfl drafts. How can we sustain a successful rebuild with drafts like those?

 

[ashley]

Look at our pathetic 2019-2020 nfl drafts. How can we sustain a successful rebuild with drafts like those?

Nick,

2020 may not be that bad, we have Dugger, Uche, Jennings, Onwenu (all potential big roles this year) and Herron. We missed on a few, but not that bad.

Also, 2019 did have the misses of Harry and Slowjuan but also had Damien Harris, Cajuste, Jackobi and Jake Bailey

 

[Guts]

Look at our pathetic 2019-2020 nfl drafts. How can we sustain a successful rebuild with drafts like those?

2020 and 2021 drafts have been solid to great so far. Give them 3 years and then judge accordingly

 

[PScottman]

Look at our pathetic 2019-2020 nfl drafts. How can we sustain a successful rebuild with drafts like those?

I'm starting to correlate the criteria for Patriots draft grades around here...

EXCELLENT - 7 ALL-PROs (two of which must be a WR) + a trade of two JAGs for the Jets #1 pick in the next two years

GREAT - 6 ALL PROs (two of which must be a WR) + one starter who would start for every team in the league

GOOD - 4 ALL PROS (one of which must be a WR) + two starters who would start for every team in the league + one guy taken in the 7th they are able to trade for a #3 in a future draft

OKAY - 2 ALL PROS (one of which must be a WR) + three starters who would start for every team in the league

FAIR - 1 ALL PRO (which must be a WR) + three starters who would start for every team in the league

POOR - Five starters (two of which must be a WR) who would start for every team in the league

PATHETIC - every Patriots draft ever

Am I close?

 

[All3Phases]

I'm starting to correlate the criteria for Patriots draft grades around here...

EXCELLENT - 7 ALL-PROs (two of which must be a WR) + a trade of two JAGs for the Jets #1 pick in the next two years

GREAT - 6 ALL PROs (two of which must be a WR) + one starter who would start for every team in the league

GOOD - 4 ALL PROS (one of which must be a WR) + two starters who would start for every team in the league + one guy taken in the 7th they are able to trade for a #3 in a future draft

OKAY - 2 ALL PROS (one of which must be a WR) + three starters who would start for every team in the league

FAIR - 1 ALL PRO (which must be a WR) + three starters who would start for every team in the league

POOR - Five starters (two of which must be a WR) who would start for every team in the league

PATHETIC - every Patriots draft ever

Am I close?

I mean, looking at drafts from 17-19, they dont fit any criteria...They werent good

 

[crawhammer]

Looking back through the 2013 draft there have been many more misses than hits and in particular rounds 1-3 have been atrocious.

Isolating 2020 and 2021 there were 18 players taken by the Patriots.

Of those 18 here is a list of players not currently on the Patriots 53-man roster:

Devin Asiasi, TE, 3rd rd
*Dalton Keene, TE, 3rd rd
Ronnie Perkins, DE, 3rd rd
*Justin Rohrwasser, K, 5th rd
Cameron McGrone, LB, 5th rd
*Cassh Maluia, LB, 6th rd
*William Sherman, OL, 6th rd
*Duston Woodward, C, 7th rd
Tre Nixon, WR, 7th rd

*Out of the league or currently not on any roster

List of players currently on the Patriots 53-man roster:

Mac Jones, QB, 1st rd
Kyle Dugger, S, 2nd rd
Josh Uche, LB, 2nd rd
Christian Barmore, DL, 2nd rd
Anfernee Jennings, LB, 3rd rd
Rhamondre Stevenson, RB, 4th rd
Micheal Onwenu, G, 6th rd
Justin Herron, T, 6th rd
Joshuah Bledsoe. S, 6th rd

The 2020 draft is pretty light on impactful players. Dugger and Uche have a chance to prove themselves this season. The consecutive selections of Jennings, Asiasi, Keene, and Rohrwasser is about as bad as it gets.

From the 2021 draft you got your franchise quarterback, a promising DT, and a legitimate looking RB. Good draft from the standpoint of those three players.

 

[captain stone]

Nick,

2020 may not be that bad, we have Dugger, Uche, Jennings, Onwenu (all potential big roles this year) and Herron. We missed on a few, but not that bad.

Also, 2019 did have the misses of Harry and Slowjuan but also had Damien Harris, Cajuste, Jakobi and Jake Bailey

Meyers wasn't part of the draft class.

 

[zydecochris]

Nick,

2020 may not be that bad, we have Dugger, Uche, Jennings, Onwenu (all potential big roles this year) and Herron. We missed on a few, but not that bad.

Also, 2019 did have the misses of Harry and Slowjuan but also had Damien Harris, Cajuste, Jackobi and Jake Bailey

The whole point of the NFL draft order (where the order in every round is according to reverse record the previous year) is to penalize the best teams to try to equalize talent across the NFL so that every fan base has some hope and continues to spend $$$ going to games.

The Patriots had by far the best overall record in the NFL for a long streak from 2002-2019 so they had the WORST draft equity of any team overall by far for years, and that is before the 2 first round picks stolen by the other jealous NFL owners and their mouthpiece Goodell. Plus, the Pats never bottomed to get a top QB like so many teams, with the closest being 7-9 in 2020 WHILE managing to get their salary cap in order in one year instead of kicking salary cap problems down the road like so many teams.

IMHO, the recent Pats drafts before 2021 have been "good" given their lack of draft equity, and 2021 was excellent (it is too early to tell with 2022, but early returns sound promising). And, even in those years where the drafts were only "good", their ability to bring in successful UDFAs and poach promising players off other rosters (from trades or roster cuts) has been excellent on the average compared to other teams IMHO.

I just don't get the beating up of the front office of a team that has had the success the Patriots have had over the last two decades. Admittedly we had a GOAT QB (which really, really helped) but there are 11 players on offense and 11 on defense. Other teams have had great QBs without going to 11 Superbowls and winning 6 in a 17 year period, the Pats front office must have been doing something right.

 

[Pats2000]

Looking back through the 2013 draft there have been many more misses than hits and in particular rounds 1-3 have been atrocious.

Isolating 2020 and 2021 there were 18 players taken by the Patriots.

Of those 18 here is a list of players not currently on the Patriots 53-man roster:

Devin Asiasi, TE, 3rd rd
*Dalton Keene, TE, 3rd rd
Ronnie Perkins, DE, 3rd rd
*Justin Rohrwasser, K, 5th rd
Cameron McGrone, LB, 5th rd
*Cassh Maluia, LB, 6th rd
*William Sherman, OL, 6th rd
*Duston Woodward, C, 7th rd
Tre Nixon, WR, 7th rd

*Out of the league or currently not on any roster

List of players currently on the Patriots 53-man roster:

Mac Jones, QB, 1st rd
Kyle Dugger, S, 2nd rd
Josh Uche, LB, 2nd rd
Christian Barmore, DL, 2nd rd
Anfernee Jennings, LB, 3rd rd
Rhamondre Stevenson, RB, 4th rd
Micheal Onwenu, G, 6th rd
Justin Herron, T, 6th rd
Joshuah Bledsoe. S, 6th rd

The 2020 draft is pretty light on impactful players. Dugger and Uche have a chance to prove themselves this season. The consecutive selections of Jennings, Asiasi, Keene, and Rohrwasser is about as bad as it gets.

From the 2021 draft you got your franchise quarterback, a promising DT, and a legitimate looking RB. Good draft from the standpoint of those three players.

Now compare that to the other 31 teams and maybe you'll have a point worth reading

 

[crawhammer]

Now compare that to the other 31 teams and maybe you'll have a point worth reading

Check out PFF's latest roster ranking of all 32 teams. Says something about where the drafts have led the Patriots. PFF has the Patriots at 20th in between the Titans (19th) and the Raiders (21st). Buffalo is 1st which seems right to me. The Bucs are 2nd and the Chargers are 3rd. The bottom three are the Falcons (30th), the Texans (31st), and the Bears (32nd). The Jets came in at 26th and the Dolphins 11th (which seems a little too high with Tua at QB).

PFF NFL Roster Rankings

 

[Pats2000]

Check out PFF's latest roster ranking of all 32 teams. Says something about where the drafts have led the Patriots. PFF has the Patriots at 20th in between the Titans (19th) and the Raiders (21st). Buffalo is 1st which seems right to me. The Bucs are 2nd and the Chargers are 3rd. The bottom three are the Falcons (30th), the Texans (31st), and the Bears (32nd). The Jets came in at 26th and the Dolphins 11th (which seems a little too high with Tua at QB).

PFF NFL Roster Rankings

They ranked the Packers as #6 in the league with that sh*t show for a receiving corps. The rankings are trash.

It's a lot easier to build a great roster when you pick top 10 for a decade. The Bills and Bucs were perennial trash. Let's see how they do over the next few years picking at the bottom. Pats have better than the 20th roster in the league.

Anyway, I wasn't looking for rankings. I wanted you to show me how many teams were kicking the sh*t out of the Pats hitting pro bowler after pro bowler in every round.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

I'm starting to correlate the criteria for Patriots draft grades around here...

EXCELLENT - 7 ALL-PROs (two of which must be a WR) + a trade of two JAGs for the Jets #1 pick in the next two years

GREAT - 6 ALL PROs (two of which must be a WR) + one starter who would start for every team in the league

GOOD - 4 ALL PROS (one of which must be a WR) + two starters who would start for every team in the league + one guy taken in the 7th they are able to trade for a #3 in a future draft

OKAY - 2 ALL PROS (one of which must be a WR) + three starters who would start for every team in the league

FAIR - 1 ALL PRO (which must be a WR) + three starters who would start for every team in the league

POOR - Five starters (two of which must be a WR) who would start for every team in the league

PATHETIC - every Patriots draft ever

Am I close?

Its about Players picked in the First rounds barely contributing and getting waived after two years

 

[PScottman]

Its about Players picked in the First rounds barely contributing and getting waived after two years

There's a reason the house always wins in Vegas - fortune telling is not a human skill. That is all the draft is - a guess and a gamble.

 

[All3Phases]

There's a reason the house always wins in Vegas - fortune telling is not a human skill. That is all the draft is - a guess and a gamble.

There is definitely a lot of luck involved, but why can’t we just admit they went on a poor run of drafts? Happens to every team

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

There is definitely a lot of luck involved, but why can’t we just admit they went on a poor run of drafts? Happens to every team

I think we do admit it, and then repeat the admittance. It appears to me that we have to admit it and the flog ourselves over it. Why is flogging necessary to prove admittance?

 

[Stu Pidassle]

It's a lot easier to build a great roster when you pick top 10 for a decade. The Bills and Bucs were perennial trash. Let's see how they do over the next few years picking at the bottom. Pats have better than the 20th roster in the league.

Anyway, I wasn't looking for rankings. I wanted you to show me how many teams were kicking the sh*t out of the Pats hitting pro bowler after pro bowler in every round.

All of the debate about being bad at drafting is just another example of BB hate. He is such a surly **** that everyone is cheering for failure and eager to pick on any perceived mistakes. Like all teams the Pats have had good and bad years in the draft. The fact that the team has remained very competitive over a long period of time, despite talent acquisition rules meant to penalize teams that have a winning record vs teams that have losing records is noteworthy. Adding the lost picks meant to punish the team and makes the run even more amazing. Only the Steelers have had similar sustained competitiveness. While it sucks having to move on from the best QB of all time, no one has or will again reproduce what the Pats have done.

 

[Bill Lee]

Its about Players picked in the First rounds barely contributing and getting waived after two years

So, the players picked in later rounds and start for us multiple years don't count?

I think they do count, so I think your statement is pretty much null and void.

 

[Ring 6]

Not any more.

The way the game is being officiated today, it's more likely than not that if your defense is bending, it's gonna be breaking too; so negative plays -
i.e.: Sacks - are the best way to get your defense off the field ASAP, before the criminally incompetent zebras award their offense a bogus DPI or
RTP penalty...

Then that defense would be poorly ranked in points.
You can’t say allowing a lot of yards is bad because yards lead to points so the tr that allows a lot of yards but few points is bad because yards lead to points.

There is a difference between a bad defense that just gets lit up and a defense that plays a philosophy of being more conservative between the 40s so as to not allow big plays and long scores, thereby making yards much less indicative of the quality of the defense because it gets stops in its own end regularly.

It’s the same with an offense. An offense that moves the ball from the -20 to the +40 then craps out isn’t good.