Pats Rebuild Intermittent View of Progress

[Wozzy]

We won’t know the progress of the rebuild until we see some regular season football.

And the predictions of the misanthropic negative types and Timmy fanboys is worthless as a knuckle in my johnson.

They said we sucked and had “no talent” when they were going to 4 Super Bowls and winning 3 of them… why should we believe them now?

 

[TommyD4207]

It's way too early to crown Mac as the Franchise.

Shouldnt people wait until Jones can beat Buffalo first?

He did already. First try even.

 

[crawhammer]

He can easily win 9 games a year for the next 3 seasons…Bill is going for the record.

Bill's a record chaser? Hmmm... at least the other guy is a "ring chaser." Stats are for losers.

 

[crawhammer]

I think the "rebuild" will be stifled by four things:

1. Mac Jones is high floor low ceiling... most successful rebuilds require an elite quarterback. If Jones had even Miami's skill position players then I'd feel better about it. Right now people are talking up Meyers as his #2. Ouch. Overall I actually like New England's skill players but collectively they're not good enough to elevate a quarterback to the next level.

2. Josh Allen is going ape sh*t on the division for the foreseeable future. Buffalo in general is MUCH better than New England right now.

3. The coaching staff has the potential to be a train wreck... specifically Patricia and Judge... and of those two Patricia since he seems to be Bill's main guy.

4. Underwhelming drafts.

 

[Kontradiction]

He did already. First try even.

He threw 3 passes, though. The team then got curb stomped in two consecutive efforts after that once Buffalo decided they wanted to load the box and make Mac beat them.

I’m not the type of fan who somehow thinks he is on the team and gives the ridiculous “one game at a time” platitude, but I think we should focus on beating Miami first. They swept us last year and conceivably improved in the offseason. That’s going to be a tough outing.

 

[Kontradiction]

We won’t know the progress of the rebuild until we see some regular season football.

And the predictions of the misanthropic negative types and Timmy fanboys is worthless as a knuckle in my johnson.

They said we sucked and had “no talent” when they were going to 4 Super Bowls and winning 3 of them… why should we believe them now?

A knuckle in your Johnson would actually be pretty worthwhile.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

If they have a QB in the woodworks not named Trubisky they are going to be good real soon. Two excellent WR's and a RB excellent building blocks.

Other than missing an OL and DL the Steelers are great. Lots of WRs and RBs with no QB or linemen.

 

[SlowGettingUp]

Personally I think it's something of a miracle that we have as good a team as we hopefully have. We sacrificed draft picks for "win-now" trades in the last two years of Brady, we had a couple of terrible drafts (and lost a pick in spygate-2), and we've had a huge outflow of coaching talent over the last few years. I'm guessing Bill wanted O'Brien as OC this year, but it was not to be, so he had to make do with what was available.

We now have an influx of youth and speed, and have solid players from 1-53 - look how hard it is to make the final few cuts. Next year we have lots of cap room and maybe O'Brien will be available. So I'd say next year we are legit contenders - this year we can still get lucky and make the playoffs - if not our consolation would be watching Bill grump on Hard Knocks the next year.

 

[TommyD4207]

He threw 3 passes, though. The team then got curb stomped in two consecutive efforts after that once Buffalo decided they wanted to load the box and make Mac beat them.

I’m not the type of fan who somehow thinks he is on the team and gives the ridiculous “one game at a time” platitude, but I think we should focus on beating Miami first. They swept us last year and conceivably improved in the offseason. That’s going to be a tough outing.

I'm the kind of fan that values wins over style points. If you want to run 60 times to beat Miami or Buffalo or anyone else, that's just fine with me.

And we'll see how good Miami actually is, and how much they've improved with a rookie head coach.

 

[203Pat]

He can easily win 9 games a year for the next 3 seasons…Bill is going for the record.

Easily?

 

[Sicilian]

A knuckle in your Johnson would actually be pretty worthwhile.

At least until you're old enough to get arthritis...

 

[crawhammer]

And we'll see how good Miami actually is, and how much they've improved with a rookie head coach.

Who's covering Tyreek Hill, Jaylen Waddle and Cedrick Wilson? They've got two good receiving backs (Edmonds & Gaskin) and a decent TE (Gesicki). Even with Tua's limitations they'll be tough to cover. Their running game should be better too. Good challenge for our defense week 1.

 

[Kontradiction]

I'm the kind of fan that values wins over style points. If you want to run 60 times to beat Miami or Buffalo or anyone else, that's just fine with me.

And we'll see how good Miami actually is, and how much they've improved with a rookie head coach.

Didn’t say I didn’t value the win, so that’s a weird statement to make. I’m simply questioning why you would say that Mac beat them. Mac perhaps had the smallest role of everyone in that game. The ground game, the wind, and the D beat the Bills. Did you just word that part poorly? Or did I miss the point?

 

[sb1]

Breer seems to think there's trouble brewing in the locker room and there are questions starting to be asked there around the Patriots offseason and how BB has the team running so far this year with the coaching setup being what it is. Also wonders if it was really Brady that kept the team together and on the same page.

Albert Breer: Questions inside Patriots locker room that hasn't existed in the past

“It’s interesting because I do think that there is… Some internal questioning of what’s going on in Foxborough that maybe hasn’t existed in the past. And I’m saying it from inside the locker room.”

985thesportshub.com

I don't know if I buy that he really has any inside info from anyone in that locker room, at best it's probably third hand info...but I think there will for sure be some uncomfortable questions being asked if the team starts poorly this season.

 

[Kontradiction]

Who's covering Tyreek Hill, Jaylen Waddle and Cedrick Wilson? They've got two good receiving backs (Edmonds & Gaskin) and a decent TE (Gesicki). Even with Tua's limitations they'll be tough to cover. Their running game should be better too. Good challenge for our defense week 1.

It all starts with the D.

 

[203Pat]

This is the type of fair and balanced objective takes we get on Pats forums from the negative nancy’s…

Triumph, the guy who tells us every Patriot player sucks, every single thing about the team sucks… turns around and tells us Mitch Trubisky is good.

And anyone who doesn’t agree is a homer…. laughable.

And anyone who doesn't agree with you is a "negative Nancy"...laughable.

 

[TommyD4207]

Didn’t say I didn’t value the win, so that’s a weird statement to make. I’m simply questioning why you would say that Mac beat them. Mac perhaps had the smallest role of everyone in that game. The ground game, the wind, and the D beat the Bills. Did you just word that part poorly? Or did I miss the point?

I mean, this isnt rocket surgery. Game #1 vs Buffalo, Jones won the game. Triumph said "he needs to beat Buffalo", he did, the win counts the same.

You're talking about style points, or seem to be, where Jones throws for 400 yds and 4TD in a shootout win. That would be cool, but if the Patriots win the game, and he doesn't, that's fine with me.

Jones's performance against the Bills last year had little to do with the 1-2 record. He cant make the Bills punt with the sheer force of his will. That's not how football works.

 

[patfanken]

I think the "rebuild" will be stifled by four things:

1. Mac Jones is high floor low ceiling... most successful rebuilds require an elite quarterback. If Jones had even Miami's skill position players then I'd feel better about it. Right now people are talking up Meyers as his #2. Ouch. Overall I actually like New England's skill players but collectively they're not good enough to elevate a quarterback to the next level.

2. Josh Allen is going ape sh*t on the division for the foreseeable future. Buffalo in general is MUCH better than New England right now.

3. The coaching staff has the potential to be a train wreck... specifically Patricia and Judge... and of those two Patricia since he seems to be Bill's main guy.

4. Underwhelming drafts.

Let me take your points one at a time

1. YOU have no idea what Mac Jones ceiling is. You sound like you don't believe what you see, but rather what you HEARD last April at the draft. Mac Jones had a GREAT year last season, not just a good one. He had close to 4000yds receiving as a rookie throwing to a very mediocre WR group and led them into the playoffs. He was the BEST of the 4 rookie QB's who were picked ahead of him. Now with a WR group that has added speed, size and more experience to that group (Thornton, when he returns, and Parker) The OL is STILL a work in progress, but if it gels as we hope, Mac CAN have a better year than last. You should put Mac in that "game manager" box (not that their's anything wrong with that)), anymore that you would have put Brady in that box back in 2000-2004.

2. Josh Allen IS the best QB in the division and the Bills LOOK like they have a better overall roster as well, I don't disagree. BUT Bill has been able to beat better rosters for the last 2 decades. That's the beauty of football. It's the one game where better TEAMS, beat better rosters.

3. The coaching staff has NOT been a train wreck. That is what you HEAR over and over again as the team goes thru the NORMAL ups and downs that occur when you make a significant shift in what you do on either offense or defense. And here's a clue. The defense is ALWAYS going to be ahead of the offense in camp. Patricia and Judge have over 20 years of coaching IN the NFL, they have PROVEN that they can coach over and over again. Patricia HAD ot master what offenses do in order to understand how to defend them. WHAT DON'T YOU GET ABOUT THAT. It might even be an advantage, understanding so well what moves defenses with take against certain formations, etc. I've said it over and over again. And despite the fact that both failed miserably as HC's, (BTW so did McDaniels), 99% of HC's eventually get fired, It doesn't mean they can't coach individuals and groups. Josh McDaniels got the play calling gig after just 2 years of coaching on the offensive side and 3 years coaching on the offensive side. Get over it.

4. Well this one is looking pretty good with FOUR players that seem like they will have a place in the regular rotation at their positions. (Strange, Thornton, JJones, and MJones. They also have a few darkhorses that may also stick like Roberts, Russey and Ray, right off the top of my head. Plus, Strong who looks he's going to go through the RB rookie year that so many have gone through. THAT's a rookie class that I'd take every year. But its about 3 years too early to really assess what this year's rookies will end up being. But even you would have to admit that "so far so good" would be a reasonable assessment to this rookie class.

5. One comment on where we are in the rebuilding process. The rebuild has one more year to go, because it will be NEXT year where we will be VERY active in the FA market that we will have the wherewith-all between FA and another draft, that we will be able to fill in all the holes we find this season. So in 2023 the Pats will have a good QB with 2 years experience under his belt and more talent than he's had so far.

Remember for some teams looking at the complete rebuild like we are going through would be happy going from 5 wins to 7. In our rebuild we had to "endure" 2 teams that won 7 games and then 10. Christ back in the day Bills and Jets fans would be THRILLED with a 7 win season. Spoiled Pats fans look at these 2 season as abject failures. Go figure

 

[Kontradiction]

I mean, this isnt rocket surgery. Game #1 vs Buffalo, Jones won the game. Triumph said "he needs to beat Buffalo", he did, the win counts the same.

You're talking about style points, or seem to be, where Jones throws for 400 yds and 4TD in a shootout win. That would be cool, but if the Patriots win the game, and he doesn't, that's fine with me.

Jones's performance against the Bills last year had little to do with the 1-2 record. He cant make the Bills punt with the sheer force of his will. That's not how football works.

So you’re basically just saying that Mac was the starting quarterback when the team won. That’s fine. With three passes, the wind, and Buffalo’s inability to stop the run, the Patriots could have probably beat them in that game with the majority of QBs in the league using that game plan. As a matter of fact, I could make a pretty air tight argument that we won that game in spite of Mac.

And for the record, I thought the game plan on offense was moronic. But they won all the same. Too bad the wind couldn’t have been like that in the playoff game. As for the statement about the defense? Mac also threw two INTs in the playoff game and two INTs in the second game. When he was allowed to throw the ball against them, he threw 2 TDs to 4 INTs. Let’s not pretend like he wasn’t also a negative in those two outings.

 

[patsinthesnow]

The drafting & fa signings since 2020 have been above average. One of Jennings or Uche panning out would help the 2020 class. We know the deal with 2021 & I think Strange, Thornton & the Jones’ have flashed so far.

What’s held back the rebuild IMO was not doing everything to maximize assets & accelerating the process:

1. Tagging Joe Thuney in 2020

Paying a guard that type of money on a team with poor talent at QB, WR & TE was bizarre.

2. Not trading Stephon Gilmore after 2019

Another action that suggests BB thought they could compete in 2020. Otherwise they would’ve saved cap they could’ve rolled over & probably had an extra first round pick.

3. Playing vets over younger players

John Simon was playing over Winovich & Uche in 2020. Cam Newton playing the remainder of the season was weird. Then last season playing Hightower, Van Noy & Collins over Uche or any other young players at LB.

The pats should’ve taken their medicine in 2020 by unloading more talent that wasn’t going to be here longterm IMO. They would be a more talented team today. Other than that, the drafting has improved & they have promising young talent on both sides of the ball.