Patriots Injury News Thornton injury update

[Bruins29]

Since the changes made after 2004, it's clear that the top level WR has taken on a much more important role, and that's been increasingly the way to win (yes, you need more, and no you don't win with 3 players in a vaccuum in the NFL, but the overall trend is obvious). And, when there's not the WR, you're going to find a TE. And, of course, there's the QB. Go backwards from last year, and the importance, while not 100%, is obvious. Teams can still get hot even if those positions aren't at the top, and defense is still important, but the pattern is there to see:


2021: Rams - Stafford/Kupp/Beckham/Woods
2020: Bucs - /BradyEvans/Godwin/Brown
2019: Chiefs - Mahomes/Hill/Kelce
2018: Patriots - Brady/Edelman/Gronk
2017: Eagles - Exception (But Ertz, and Wentz for much of the season)
2016: Patriots - Brady/Edelman/Bennett
2015: Broncos - Peyton's corpse/Thomas/Sanders
2014: Patriots - Brady/Edelman/Gronk
2013: Seahawks - Exception (but Wilson, and Harvin when healthy)
etc...

Thanks. And I agree with all that. However I thought the convo/topic was just WR. If you include pass catchers it does change the whole narrative.

My question and point was that I don’t think a top rated wr group means a whole lot. We have won without that quite a few times.

 

[Deus Irae]

Thanks. And I agree with all that. However I thought the convo/topic was just WR. If you include pass catchers it does change the whole narrative.

My question and point was that I don’t think a top rated wr group means a whole lot. We have won without that quite a few times.

Well, nothing's 100%. In 2007, the Patriots came within about a minute of winning a SB with the #1 offense of all time, but lost (not getting into the why of it). And, in 2011, the Patriots almost won a SB despite having a defense that had no business being there. If the defenses had just held up for one more drive, we're talking about Brady having 9 rings. So you can make up for things with greatness at other spots (Gronk/Kelce/Brady/etc...), defense still matters (see the year of Manning's corpse winning), and you can still get teams that get hot at the right time.

But having a top WR means a lot in today's game, as I just demonstrated, so I'm not sure why you're still claiming it doesn't.

 

[varjao]

It all starts like this

I'm not into stats, that's not how this team operates but I'd like at least for once to have a rookie putting up 1000 yards, that would help the whole process

that would help the offense
that would help Mac
that would help the offensive coordinator whoever the hell he is
that would put respect on the opponents
that would help the rookie of course

Now how this goes, he miss weeks of valuable practice and building chemistry with Mac , gets to play later in the season plus the possibility of few targets or even a red shirt year , catches for 400 yards tops and then goes to year 2 with all that pressure in the world, all it takes is another injury and then we all know how this ends

 

[PatsFanInVa]

I am for one glad I block out any emotion regarding Thornton

as my ex-gf taught me, can't have your feelings destroyed, if you don't have any

she taught me that same thing

 

[Vindicate]

Well, nothing's 100%. In 2007, the Patriots came within about a minute of winning a SB with the #1 offense of all time, but lost (not getting into the why of it). And, in 2011, the Patriots almost won a SB despite having a defense that had no business being there. If the defenses had just held up for one more drive, we're talking about Brady having 9 rings. So you can make up for things with greatness at other spots (Gronk/Kelce/Brady/etc...), defense still matters (see the year of Manning's corpse winning), and you can still get teams that get hot at the right time.

But having a top WR means a lot in today's game, as I just demonstrated, so I'm not sure why you're still claiming it doesn't.

I think there is merit to the idea that: if defense wins championships, then a good WR core becomes markedly more important when considering that defense is defined by the rules that allows them to play, and those rules favor the offense.

 

[captain stone]

Agree but was responding to the AFC centered discussion.

Then why are the Falcons on it?

 

[Deus Irae]

If I failed to respond to anyone, I apologize. My computer a/k/a this site+my computer started acting funky, and I was reading posts while not being able to do any typing, so I lost anyone on the unread section. And given that the topic was/is nothing but offseason fodder, I'm not going to hunt things down. But, please, don't take it personally. It is/was a computer issue.

 

[Ian]

If I failed to respond to anyone, I apologize. My computer a/k/a this site+my computer started acting funky, and I was reading posts while not being able to do any typing, so I lost anyone on the unread section. And given that the topic was/is nothing but offseason fodder, I'm not going to hunt things down. But, please, don't take it personally. It is/was a computer issue.

Had a glitch on the other side where some files had filled up the server and it was causing an issue. Just got them cleared and cleaned up some things and I believe things should settle down now.

 

[mikey m]

Then why are the Falcons on it?

Oops

 

[upstater1]

Tebucky Jones at CB and Brandon Mitchell were bad. Jones was okay at S when Bill converted him at the unfortunate expense of fan favorite Larry Whigham.

Woody was okay, but he was horrendous snapping the ball out of the shotgun. It was so bad, Bill eventually signed Mike Compton in 2001 to snap it on passing downs.

Spires was underutilized and was a goof on Carroll and Bill.

According to Ted Johnson, he thought Katezmoyer was going to be a bust as he had a hard time understanding his assignments on D. This was weird to hear, as he had a very good rookie season at LB. I think Katz would've been a very good LB if it weren't for his neck injury.

Faulk was not very good in his early years because they were asking him to be a lead back. Fumbled a ton.

I was recently watching old Pats games in the 90's and Edwards looked like Sony Michel - nothing spectacular. However, their run blocking was horrible. He would've had his best year's under Bill with better O-lines.

The problem with the drafts after 1996 was that they didn't have enough impact players and players ready to replace aging veterans.

????

No, no, no, no, no.

Brandon Mitchell was not bad. Not bad at all.

Greg Spires had 10+ sacks in a few years and made the Pro Bowl.

Woody, Pro Bowler.

Faulk, an all-time Patriot great.

Robert Edwards looked like Sony Michel?? Edwards had vision, burst and wiggle. He was excellent as a rookie.

 

[mikey m]

And, in 2011, the Patriots almost won a SB despite having a defense that had no business being there. If the defenses had just held up for one more drive, we're talking about Brady having 9 rings.

Only in a certain subforum.

 

[Water Boy]

Tyquan Thornton is made of glass...

 

[ashley]

 

[catent]

I have a hunch he'll be back sooner than later, assuming it's a straightforward recovery without any complications/setbacks. If he can avoid surgery that'd be great; I've read collarbones can go either way, some fractures need surgery to correct and others do not.

 

[BTTA]

Given that the Pats save a ton of money vs. other teams on the WR group, allowing them to upgrade other position groups, the WR group is pretty strong. The highest paid guy isn't even in the top 30, and the second highest paid buy isn't even top 40, in terms of salaries. Every other WR is a huge bargain.

To make a cogent argument to upgrade the WR group, you've got to offer up one or two highly paid players at other positions, and weaken those groups. Otherwise, it's just pi$$ing into the wind.

Next year, Parker will jump into the top 25 and Agholor into the top 30 (unless the FA signings push them down further).

 

[BTTA]

I have a hunch he'll be back sooner than later, assuming it's a straightforward recovery without any complications/setbacks. If he can avoid surgery that'd be great; I've read collarbones can go either way, some fractures need surgery to correct and others do not.

From what I read this morning, the surgery has the usual risks (infection, etc.) but typically speeds the recovery by two weeks over a natural healing. And it is a subjective call for the doc; they all lean one way or the other. So there are probably multiple opinions being gathered.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Well, nothing's 100%. In 2007, the Patriots came within about a minute of winning a SB with the #1 offense of all time, but lost (not getting into the why of it). And, in 2011, the Patriots almost won a SB despite having a defense that had no business being there. If the defenses had just held up for one more drive, we're talking about Brady having 9 rings. So you can make up for things with greatness at other spots (Gronk/Kelce/Brady/etc...), defense still matters (see the year of Manning's corpse winning), and you can still get teams that get hot at the right time.

LOL

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

LOL

Some guys love Brady so much they can not help themselves. It is in their subconscious.

 

[pencilneckgeek]

He doesn't need weight gained from being stationary.
He's never going to break 200 pounds. It'll be a struggle for a guy with that metabolism and build to put on 5 pounds of muscle, especially after an aggressive college weight program. Even professional body builders barely get 10 pounds of muscle in a year of focused work, unless using a steroid.
He is what he is. He needs to know when to go down and live for another day. He doesn't need to follow Edelman's model, who had an entirely different body type.

Age is a factor, too. Lots of 22 year-old kids are just growing into their bodies and were not ready to pack on weight while in college. Most of them don't make it to the NFL, whether because being small is a competitive disadvantage that kept them off the team or got them hurt playing against more physically mature players. Thorton clearly has what it takes to make it, but he needs a year in an NFL nutrition/weight program where the physical training is a full-time job. I'm sure Moses Cabrera will put 5 pounds of muscle mass on him while preserving his speed. I had figured that he'd miss time at some point this year and that his true value will be seen next year. In the meantime, he learns and gets stronger. Hopefully, it's a Grade II (non-displaced) injury and he can resume strength training soon. While shoulders with grade III separations are 20% weaker on average, NFL athletes in NFL training programs are far from average, so I would expect him to recover fully (at least by NFL standards).

Despite what everyone says about muscle mass not protecting you from a broken collar bone (and that can be true for specific impacts), but a well developed shoulder girdle (e.g., delts, pecs, traps) and lats will help distribute load from an impact and reduce the likelihood of injury (or at least that's how I explain not separating my shoulder despite dozens of sideways cycling falls when I was doing mtb trials). Those pads are there for a reason. I'll be happy if he gets some late-season action this year and shows-up healthy to camp next year.

In my dorm in college, there was a long hallway down to the bathroom, and I'd sprint down it and crash shoulder first into the solid door next to it on a consistent basis (as a visual, if one watches the Greatest American Hero theme song - one of my fave shows as a kid - when he crashes into a wall, that's what it looked like). Not sure how I didn't get injured, but it explains why I have a whole slew of screws loose.

I'm glad I wasn't big enough to play football. That would have been disastrous for a lot of people - especially me.

Ha! There was an iron gate in college that was sometimes halfway closed, located near a class to which I had to run to get to on time. I hit that with my shoulder more times than a supposedly intelligent person should have.

 

[PatsFan2]

That sucks I was hoping four weeks but oh well. My man Kristian Wilkerson just did this...