Dan Shaughnessy: Biggest douche bag of them all?

[lancerman]

Doesn't matter that he didn't go to Miami.

Does matter that he knew 100% proof positive going into contract negotiations with the Patriots that there was at least 1 team that would offer multiple years... Don't think that would have an adverse impact on the Patriots negotiations?

I do.

Yeah it absolutely matters. There was no expectation when Brady negotiated to have unrestricted free agency at the end of his contract that he was going to stay in New England. There’s zero evidence Miami swayed him in anyway. It’s you making up conjecture to assume he’s not here because of Miami.

We know why he isn’t here. We weren’t committing to him and another team was.

You can’t be naive enough to think he negotiated unrestricted free agency and it was all just an elaborate bluff and he was going to give NE a break compared to any other team. The Pats had all season to work on extending him. They didn’t.

You have offered no proof that any discussion he had with Miami is why he isn’t here now. It’s just homerism so you can justify your narrative that the Patriots were somehow screwed and that Brady leaving wasn’t a situation they negotiated themselves into.

 

[borg]

but a topic about LIV Golf, Roquan Smith, and Kareem Hunt can all get main board access....

When I need to know which has-been celebrity from a half century ago has passed away, I don't go to TMZ.com or Access Hollywood, I speed to PatsFans.com to get the latest celeb obituaries plus all the up-to-the-minute Buccaneers news.
Big shout out to Deus for his leadership role as the featured Bucs/obit contributor

 

[Pape]

Yeah it absolutely matters. There was no expectation when Brady negotiated to have unrestricted free agency at the end of his contract that he was going to stay in New England. There’s zero evidence Miami swayed him in anyway. It’s you making up conjecture to assume he’s not here because of Miami.

We know why he isn’t here. We weren’t committing to him and another team was.

You can’t be naive enough to think he negotiated unrestricted free agency and it was all just an elaborate bluff and he was going to give NE a break compared to any other team. The Pats had all season to work on extending him. They didn’t.

You have offered no proof that any discussion he had with Miami is why he isn’t here now. It’s just homerism so you can justify your narrative that the Patriots were somehow screwed and that Brady leaving wasn’t a situation they negotiated themselves into.

No proof? What do you want me to give you? transcribed conversations between Brady and Beal? lol, get real... A call for proof is just moving the goalposts... whatever I say or provide will never be good enough because while I maybe am a homer - absolutely 1000% ... you are an apologist, unwilling to admit even the obvious...

You can't be naive enough to think that ongoing negotiations between Brady and the fins over the entirety of the 2019 season didn't have an adverse impact on the Patriots...

And there is always an expectation that a team would keep their star quarterback going into negotiations, as there was in the Brady/Patriot negotiations leading up to 2020 free agency

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

He gives the Pats little credit for the dynasty. We only beat "tomato cans"

What I take exception to is Dan being treated as a credible, legitimate source for sports analysis.

It's okay to be a troll, but stop treating the guy like he's intelligent, or that anything he says means anything.

 

[lancerman]

No proof? What do you want me to give you? transcribed conversations between Brady and Beal? lol, get real... A call for proof is just moving the goalposts... whatever I say or provide will never be good enough because while I maybe am a homer - absolutely 1000% ... you are an apologist, unwilling to admit even the obvious...

You can't be naive enough to think that ongoing negotiations between Brady and the fins over the entirety of the 2019 season didn't have an adverse impact on the Patriots...

“A call for proof is moving the goal posts”

Okay I’m going to bow out

 

[Pape]

“A call for proof is moving the goal posts”

Okay I’m going to bow out

what proof? What could a poster on a message board have by the way of proof that would satisfy you? I dont have access to internal Patriot or dolphin documents ... I dont have access to bradys inner circle... i dont have access to anything besides that which is printed in blogs, columns and papers... and on the league report...

"The investigators found tampering violations of unprecedented scope and severity,” commissioner Roger Goodell said in a statement. “I know of no prior instance of a team violating the prohibition on tampering with both a head coach and star player, to the potential detriment of multiple other clubs, over a period of several years."

"Those communications began as early as August 2019 and continued throughout the 2019 season and post-season. These numerous and detailed discussions were conducted by Mr. Beal, who in turn kept Mr. Ross and other Dolphins executives informed of his discussions with Mr. Brady"

What more do you need to see? Conclusions drawn are based on conjecture... we connect the dots based on what happened as new information emerges... and that miami bombshell of a ruling should be all the proof a person needs to draw a credible conclusion.

So yeah, its disingenuous at best (aka moving the goal posts) to ask for proof when you know damn well know that there is no "proof" beyond whats been released.

**** move brady

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

No doubt he's an all-time player but the NBA had like 5 teams in it when he won 11 championships.

...and all five were better than any team Jordan ever played against

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

what proof? What could a poster on a message board have by the way of proof that would satisfy you? I dont have access to internal Patriot or dolphin documents ... I dont have access to bradys inner circle... i dont have access to anything besides that which is printed in blogs, columns and papers... and on the league report...

"The investigators found tampering violations of unprecedented scope and severity,” commissioner Roger Goodell said in a statement. “I know of no prior instance of a team violating the prohibition on tampering with both a head coach and star player, to the potential detriment of multiple other clubs, over a period of several years."

"Those communications began as early as August 2019 and continued throughout the 2019 season and post-season. These numerous and detailed discussions were conducted by Mr. Beal, who in turn kept Mr. Ross and other Dolphins executives informed of his discussions with Mr. Brady"

What more do you need to see? Conclusions drawn are based on conjecture... we connect the dots based on what happened as new information emerges... and that miami bombshell of a ruling should be all the proof a person needs to draw a credible conclusion.

So yeah, its disingenuous at best (aka moving the goal posts) to ask for proof when you know damn well know that there is no "proof" beyond whats been released.

**** move brady

I'm sorry, I'm supposed to believe anything Fraudger says?

Makes me believe Dolphins are 100% innocent.

 

[Pape]

I'm sorry, I'm supposed to believe anything Fraudger says?

Makes me believe Dolphins are 100% innocent.

Would it make you feel better if i said that roger was just a talking puppet? Mary Jo White was the lead investigator...

 

[Hyped]

Shaughnessy....he's a pot stirrer all right...but he does write compelling stuff from time to time. When it comes to the Patriots...I take his columns with a grain of salt...but the man knows the Red Sox though...

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

It's entirely reasonable that you would be able to pursue other opportunities in your profession. And unless you have a CNC in your employment contract, there really is nothing that the company you work for can do about it.

Player employment contracts are different though, aren't they? Based on the CBA, agreed to by the league and players association, it's entirely reasonable and expected that a professional sports team can bar a player from participating in free agency while the player is under contract. The Lieami Dolphins & Tamper Brady went ahead and engaged in contract negotiations anyway, a full season before his contract was set to expire.

So, it's really not the same thing, is it?

I mean, Tom wasn't on the phone with Miami on the sidelines during the Titans playoff game.

Was he?

So he's supposed to be Chuck Fairbanks.

Or Duane Thomas.

 

[Ring 6]

How’s he in violation of his contract? His contract doesn’t say he can’t talk with other teams. The league makes it clear it’s responsible for the organizations to keep their nose clean. Unless you actually read his contract, it’s poor form to argue what clauses are in it.

Btw the bolded portion you used to say I was “tacitly admitting” something was me paraphrasing the argument of the person I was responding to. So it wasn’t even an admission on my end lol

The contract absolutely prohibits what he did.

 

[Ring 6]

…. he doesn’t play for the Patriots because they didn’t want to commit to years on him and they let him be free agent. He didn’t even go to Miami.

They offered him a 2 year contract. Tampa signed him to a 2 year contract.
You’ll need to find a different reason to justify a patriot player conspiring with a division rival.

 

[Ring 6]

Can you prove it negatively impacted the team in any way

The league already did.
Tampering is penalized because it damages the team the player us under contract with.
Miami wa guilty of tampering. Brady conspired with them in their tampering.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

I’m a fan. I’m not going to blindly co-sign everything the team does or agree with it. They had a chance to not make Brady have to consider future employment. They passed on that. The business relationship was ending and he was looking for a new one. It’s not a big deal.

The problem with homerism is that it lets blind fandom obscure logic.

Actually, it's homerism which led a lot of us to deconstruct the illogic in media BS, coaching ignorance, ownership stupidity & league corruption.

 

[Pape]

I mean, Tom wasn't on the phone with Miami on the sidelines during the Titans playoff game.

Was he?

the report says he was in contact with the dolphins through the post 2019 season... not while on the sidelines (no phone zone), before and after that game? is plausible.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

So you tacitly admit he acted in violation of his contract, which is what we've been saying all along.

Then you rationalize by saying it's OK because the teams don't enforce such contracts?

By that logic, anything you can get away with is OK? And that's OK because other people do it too?


The main issue I have is this guy has created a giant media machine cranking out multi-part documentaries about what a shining example of mankind he is, while at the same time knowingly violating his contract and talking to a team that was and is a conference rival while playing for us. There's no reason he couldn't have put that discussion on hold till he could do it legitimately, yet he chose otherwise. He wants to cash in via a squeaky clean image, but his words and his deeds don't match.

BTW it is not against his contract to look at real estate or schools in other cities, but it is to talk to other teams. That's a pretty easy distinction to make, yet he did not.

The emotional homerism I see is from people who can't admit their hero did something he should not have done, yet it's so clear that he did, so they make themselves look silly when they try to rationalize his behavior.

Tom Brady's human. He's got a lot of admirable character and behavioral traits. Any notions I might have had that he's 'perfect' disappeared when he kept doing the Monday Morning Quarterback show on EEI when he became the starter regardless of the verbal sewage being spewed before and after.

Tom towed the line for two decades here. Maybe the team wasn't directly responsible for him being dragged into court and having his consecutive starts record aborted (not gonna get into Bob's complicity with the false laughingstock narrative etc. right now). He was pissed about Harry. He moved on.

I do not blame Tom for talking to somebody on the phone any more than I blame Bill for having some of his guys at Giants Stadium in the first half of the first game of a season in a location which might piss off the other team's coach.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Yes, not sure what he wrote but, not going to read it to find out.

CHB is treated nationally as not only credible, but representing us.

Which makes us all look like morons.

 

[Pape]

Tom Brady's human. He's got a lot of admirable character and behavioral traits. Any notions I might have had that he's 'perfect' disappeared when he kept doing the Monday Morning Quarterback show on EEI when he became the starter regardless of the verbal sewage being spewed before and after.

Tom towed the line for two decades here. Maybe the team wasn't directly responsible for him being dragged into court and having his consecutive starts record aborted (not gonna get into Bob's complicity with the false laughingstock narrative etc. right now). He was pissed about Harry. He moved on.

I do not blame Tom for talking to somebody on the phone any more than I blame Bill for having some of his guys in a location at Giants Stadium in the first half of the first game of a season in a location which might piss off the other team's coach.

So by that standard both Chuck Fairbanks and Bill Parcells are absolved for the crime of dealing with other teams...

 

[Ring 6]

So by that standard both Chuck Fairbanks and Bill Parcells are both absolved of dealing with other teams...

The infamous “well I was upset” defense.