Dan Shaughnessy: Biggest douche bag of them all?

[lancerman]

The point is and always has been Tamper Brady acted like an ass_hole by doing this.

But apparently Brady can do no wrong in some peoples eyes, and we must continually be grateful to him for what he did here, even when he takes a big ass dump in our morning coffee... we just supposed to say delicious, thank you sir, may i have another

That wasn’t the argument you were making. Frankly I think deep down you know that in no other scenario would people consider it morally reprehensible for someone who is about to not be with their employment organization in several months to look for their next job while still under contract. You tried to counter that by suggesting Tom’s NFL contract is a distinction based on league rules. Yet the league does not find players to be in the wrong for doing that. So your counter really isn’t a point that holds up in reality.

Again this all just feels like emotional homerism and fans being upset that a player didn’t bend down and drop their pants to show absolute deference to the franchise and considered his own future employment and where his family would live next instead. Football is a business, the sooner you realize that, the better off you will be.

 

[Guts]

"Everyone does it"

I going to have to disagree with you on that point. It was labeled "unprecedented in scope and severity" for a reason.

Same was said about Spygate and yes everyone does it

 

[Pape]

That wasn’t the argument you were making. Frankly I think deep down you know that in no other scenario would people consider it morally reprehensible for someone who is about to not be with their employment organization in several months to look for their next job while still under contract. You tried to counter that by suggesting Tom’s NFL contract is a distinction based on league rules. Yet the league does not find players to be in the wrong for doing that. So your counter really isn’t a point that holds up in reality.

Again this all just feels like emotional homerism and fans being upset that a player didn’t bend down and drop their pants to show absolute deference to the franchise and considered his own future employment and where his family would live next instead. Football is a business, the sooner you realize that, the better off you will be.

It is quite literally the point of all my posts on this topic. Consistently across all the threads on this topic.

emotional homerism? eh, if you want to define it that way... I will state that absolutely I am a Patriots homer... serious question - if you aren't, why are you here?

as for this - I prefer to define it as outright criticism of a former player, in the face of infantile devotion of some "Pink Hat Patriot" fans regardless of what happened... he literally was acting as a two-faced rat across the entire 2019 season.

And when did being a Patriot homer become a bad thing? You sound like an mid-2000's clots fan in your criticism...

 

[Mike the Brit]

Well, to go back to the original question, yes, Shaughnessy is a douche and the reason isn't about whether he's right to criticize Brady or not. It's about the way he frames it.

Here is one paragraph:

How is all of this OK with you, Boston? Your guy was mentally checked out of Foxborough in his last Patriot season. A lot of Patriot fans are still angry at Bill Parcells for talking to the Jets while he was taking the Patriots to a Super Bowl. The Tuna had a much better reason for leaving (stabbed in the back on draft day by Bob Kraft) than Brady. How is Parcells a traitor but Brady is OK?​

​

It's fine to say "We all believed in Brady but now he's let us down" and it's fine to say "In the cut-throat world of the NFL it doesn't sound as if what he has done is unforgivable" but it's absolutely not fine to jeer and gloat at your readers as if we were all gullible and inconsistent nitwits and he stands above us.

Douche!

(And now I need one myself, having read a column by the CHB for the first time in ten years.)

 

[archstanton543]

It is quite literally the point of all my posts on this topic. Consistently across all the threads on this topic.

emotional homerism? eh, if you want to define it that way... I will state that absolutely I am a Patriots homer... as for this - I prefer to define it as outright criticism of a former player, in the face of infantile devotion of some "Pink Hat Patriot" fans regardless of what happened... he literally was acting as a two-faced rat across the entire 2019 season.

And when did being a Patriot homer become a bad thing? You sound like an mid-2000's clots fan in your criticism...

I thought "Homer" was an insult sportswriters threw at other sportswriters? Fans are "Homers" by their very nature and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[Pape]

Same was said about Spygate and yes everyone does it

really? engaging in tampering at this level, to this extent? everyone... huh

so how many teams have been penalized by the league for negotiating with a rival teams quarterback, engaging in contract negotiations across the entire pre- and regular season?

Be specific. I'll wait.

 

[Bill Lee]

Well you are the one making a point that it's okay for any employer but an NFL contract makes it different for players. My point is the league, does not find players to be guilty of any wrongdoing in such a circumstance. So their conduct here is no different than any other American employee looking for new jobs as their term of business expires.

So you tacitly admit he acted in violation of his contract, which is what we've been saying all along.

Then you rationalize by saying it's OK because the teams don't enforce such contracts?

By that logic, anything you can get away with is OK? And that's OK because other people do it too?

Again this all just feels like emotional homerism and fans being upset that a player didn’t bend down and drop their pants to show absolute deference to the franchise and considered his own future employment and where his family would live next instead. Football is a business, the sooner you realize that, the better off you will be.

The main issue I have is this guy has created a giant media machine cranking out multi-part documentaries about what a shining example of mankind he is, while at the same time knowingly violating his contract and talking to a team that was and is a conference rival while playing for us. There's no reason he couldn't have put that discussion on hold till he could do it legitimately, yet he chose otherwise. He wants to cash in via a squeaky clean image, but his words and his deeds don't match.

BTW it is not against his contract to look at real estate or schools in other cities, but it is to talk to other teams. That's a pretty easy distinction to make, yet he did not.

The emotional homerism I see is from people who can't admit their hero did something he should not have done, yet it's so clear that he did, so they make themselves look silly when they try to rationalize his behavior.

 

[archstanton543]

So you tacitly admit he acted in violation of his contract, which is what we've been saying all along.

Then you rationalize by saying it's OK because the teams don't enforce such contracts?

By that logic, anything you can get away with is OK? And that's OK because other people do it too?


The main issue I have is this guy has created a giant media machine cranking out multi-part documentaries about what a shining example of mankind he is, while at the same time knowingly violating his contract and talking to a team that was and is a conference rival while playing for us. There's no reason he couldn't have put that discussion on hold till he could do it legitimately, yet he chose otherwise. He wants to cash in via a squeaky clean image, but his words and his deeds don't match.

BTW it is not against his contract to look at real estate or schools in other cities, but it is to talk to other teams. That's a pretty easy distinction to make, yet he did not.

The emotional homerism I see is from people who can't admit their hero did something he should not have done, yet it's so clear that he did, so they make themselves look silly when they try to rationalize his behavior.

The words "conflict of interest" seem not to be in people's vocabulary.

 

[lancerman]

It is quite literally the point of all my posts on this topic. Consistently across all the threads on this topic.

emotional homerism? eh, if you want to define it that way... I will state that absolutely I am a Patriots homer... serious question - if you aren't, why are you here?

as for this - I prefer to define it as outright criticism of a former player, in the face of infantile devotion of some "Pink Hat Patriot" fans regardless of what happened... he literally was acting as a two-faced rat across the entire 2019 season.

And when did being a Patriot homer become a bad thing? You sound like an mid-2000's clots fan in your criticism...

I’m a fan. I’m not going to blindly co-sign everything the team does or agree with it. They had a chance to not make Brady have to consider future employment. They passed on that. The business relationship was ending and he was looking for a new one. It’s not a big deal.

The problem with homerism is that it lets blind fandom obscure logic.

 

[lancerman]

It is quite literally the point of all my posts on this topic. Consistently across all the threads on this topic.

emotional homerism? eh, if you want to define it that way... I will state that absolutely I am a Patriots homer... serious question - if you aren't, why are you here?

as for this - I prefer to define it as outright criticism of a former player, in the face of infantile devotion of some "Pink Hat Patriot" fans regardless of what happened... he literally was acting as a two-faced rat across the entire 2019 season.

And when did being a Patriot homer become a bad thing? You sound like an mid-2000's clots fan in your criticism...

I’m a fan. I’m not going to blindly co-sign everything the team does or agree with it. They had a chance to not make Brady have to consider future employment. They passed on that. The business relationship was ending and he was looking for a new one. It’s not a big deal.

There’s just no logical consistency being displayed

 

[lancerman]

So you tacitly admit he acted in violation of his contract, which is what we've been saying all along.

Then you rationalize by saying it's OK because the teams don't enforce such contracts?

By that logic, anything you can get away with is OK? And that's OK because other people do it too?


The main issue I have is this guy has created a giant media machine cranking out multi-part documentaries about what a shining example of mankind he is, while at the same time knowingly violating his contract and talking to a team that was and is a conference rival while playing for us. There's no reason he couldn't have put that discussion on hold till he could do it legitimately, yet he chose otherwise. He wants to cash in via a squeaky clean image, but his words and his deeds don't match.

BTW it is not against his contract to look at real estate or schools in other cities, but it is to talk to other teams. That's a pretty easy distinction to make, yet he did not.

The emotional homerism I see is from people who can't admit their hero did something he should not have done, yet it's so clear that he did, so they make themselves look silly when they try to rationalize his behavior.

How’s he in violation of his contract? His contract doesn’t say he can’t talk with other teams. The league makes it clear it’s responsible for the organizations to keep their nose clean. Unless you actually read his contract, it’s poor form to argue what clauses are in it.

Btw the bolded portion you used to say I was “tacitly admitting” something was me paraphrasing the argument of the person I was responding to. So it wasn’t even an admission on my end lol

 

[Pape]

I’m a fan.

That's some real conviction there...

I’m not going to blindly co-sign everything the team does or agree with it.

Oh not the team... but you'll just blindly co-sign everything Brady does... gotcha

 

[lancerman]

That's some real conviction there...



Oh not the team... but you'll just blindly co-sign everything Brady does... gotcha

No I’ve criticized Brady in the past. I think it was scummy that he was trying to fake retire to get out of Tampa (which I find much worse than looking past his contact while he was with us). I don’t like his relationship with Alex Guerrero and think there is a good bit of snake oil pseudo science the equivalent to Goop in the TB12 method. Not really a fan of how he treated Jimmy G while he was here.

I just don’t care about this. It wasn’t something where he was breaching contract terms, the league has never took the stance that it’s a players responsibility or something they are accountable too, and frankly I just don’t think it actually effected the team. I think he knew he was gone when he negotiated that free agency and didn’t get the extension he wanted, I don’t think it effected at all the Patriots chances to keep him because he was not going to stay and the smoke was there, and more importantly I don’t think it effected the team that season. The offense just wasn’t that good and it hasn’t been good in the two years since, a divisional round exit was probably the best they could hope for.

So I just don’t see much of a moral issue with it or a negative impact on the team in this situation. I don’t know why you need to feel like you need to set up a strawman that I can’t be critical of Brady. Personally I think it just upsets you that he moved on and didn’t show absolute deference to the organization that wasn’t committing to him anymore on the way out.

 

[Pape]

How’s he in violation of his contract? His contract doesn’t say he can’t talk with other teams. The league makes it clear it’s responsible for the organizations to keep their nose clean. Unless you actually read his contract, it’s poor form to argue what clauses are in it.

Btw the bolded portion you used to say I was “tacitly admitting” something was me paraphrasing the argument of the person I was responding to. So it wasn’t even an admission on my end lol

conduct detrimental, its in his contract.

Its in everyones contract

 

[lancerman]

conduct detrimental, its in his contract.

Its in everyones contract

Can you prove it negatively impacted the team in any way

 

[Pape]

Can you prove it negatively impacted the team in any way

Beyond the obvious that he no longer plays for the Patriots?

Gee lemme think on that ....

 

[Kontradiction]

Beyond the obvious that he no longer plays for the Patriots?

Gee lemme think on that ....

That’s the team’s fault. They had many, many chances to lock him up until his stated playing age of 45, and passed. Then, when he got sick of not having his requests listened to (likely because BB starting buying into the “cliff” fallacy), he left. If the team had locked him up long term, he’d still be here.

 

[Kontradiction]

By the way, shouldn’t this thread get moved to the Brady forum? Or is that only for actual football talk while threads where posters who clearly aren’t over the fact that he left and won a Super Bowl elsewhere, can vent and scream? Just trying to make sure I understand the rules. Can’t talk about the GOAT who wore the uniform for two decades but a topic about LIV Golf, Roquan Smith, and Kareem Hunt can all get main board access.

 

[lancerman]

Beyond the obvious that he no longer plays for the Patriots?

Gee lemme think on that ....

…. he doesn’t play for the Patriots because they didn’t want to commit to years on him and they let him be free agent. He didn’t even go to Miami.

 

[Pape]

…. he doesn’t play for the Patriots because they didn’t want to commit to years on him and they let him be free agent. He didn’t even go to Miami.

Doesn't matter that he didn't go to Miami.

Does matter that he knew 100% proof positive going into contract negotiations with the Patriots that there was at least 1 team that would offer multiple years... Don't think that would have an adverse impact on the Patriots negotiations? and keep in mind, the Miami tampering began at the latest in August 2019 ... and all of a sudden, out of the blue, he (and alex guerrero too) puts his property in Boston on the market that very month?


Oy vey.... talk about coincidence...