OT: Baker traded to Panthers

[XLIX]

Sure, pocket passers ruled the day for a long time but those days are gone. Once Brady goes that statement only becomes stronger.

We’ve been hearing of the death of pocket passers for over 30 years now, and yet they’re still here.

10 of last year’s top 13 passers (by yardage) ran for under 10 yards per game, so please spare us the notion that pocket passers are an endangered breed.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

We’ve been hearing of the death of pocket passers for over 30 years now, and yet they’re still here.

 

[XLIX]

Now now…. No need to get so angry when all I did was prove how completely clueless you are on the state of QBing in the modern NFL.

 

[captain stone]

If the Panthers had an O-Line they would be a pretty good team…. they don’t.

They might...if Ekwonu can ass-ume the starting LT job sooner than later... Moton's a solid RT; they signed Bozeman & Corbett to start at Center & LG; and may the best or least sucky man win at RG, the easiest position to fill on the OL anyway.

 

[BennyBledsoe]

Running QBs can be successful. No doubt. But what you have to look at is... are they sustainable?

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

They might...if Ekwonu can ass-ume the starting LT job sooner than later... Moton's a solid RT; they signed Bozeman & Corbett to start at Center & LG; and may the best or least sucky man win at RG, the easiest position to fill on the OL anyway.

Have to wonder why the Panthers didn't trade for Shaq Mason. Offer a 5th like the Bucs and it would be a higher pick than the Bucs. Seems like a no brainer.

 

[Pape]

So, why didn't the NFL punish Kraft at all, when owners are to be held to a HIGHER standard than the players. Goodell has a problem with this Judge imo.

because we all know owners aren't held to a higher standard. Never have been never will be.

 

[mgteich]

because we all know owners aren't held to a higher standard. Never have been never will be.

OK

Personally, I think that it is nonsense for folks to think that ownership and management should be held to similar standards as employees under contract.
========
For safety and many other issues, there are rules that are negotiated for employees. There is no reason for owners and managment to abide by these same rules.

 

[captain stone]

Have to wonder why the Panthers didn't trade for Shaq Mason. Offer a 5th like the Bucs and it would be a higher pick than the Bucs. Seems like a no brainer.

Seems that Bozeman & Corbett weren't signed until shortly after the Mason trade, so maybe the Panthers were also inquiring about him but only offered a 6th-rounder?

 

[venecol]

OK

Personally, I think that it is nonsense for folks to think that ownership and management should be held to similar standards as employees under contract.
========
For safety and many other issues, there are rules that are negotiated for employees. There is no reason for owners and managment to abide by these same rules.

"It is a privilege to be part of the National Football League. Everyone who is part of the league must refrain from “conduct detrimental to the integrity of and public confidence in” the NFL. This includes owners, coaches, players, other team employees, game officials, and employees of the league office, NFL Films, NFL Network, or any other NFL business. Conduct by anyone in the league that is illegal, violent, dangerous, or irresponsible puts innocent victims at risk, damages the reputation of others in the game, and undercuts public respect and support for the NFL. We must endeavor at all times to be people of high character; we must show respect for others inside and outside our workplace; and we must strive to conduct ourselves in ways that favorably reflect on ourselves, our teams, the communities we represent, and the NFL."

"Ownership and club or league management have traditionally been held to a higher standard and will be subject to more significant discipline when violations of the Personal Conduct Policy occur."

 

[venecol]

More spin by Florio.

 

[rochrist]

All Hell will come down on the NFL if they try to punish Watson severely.

He did not play last season. Time to move on.

He held out last season. He wasnt suspended.

 

[1960Pats]

IMO, Josh Allen didn't run enough last year. The game they lost against the patriots was downright embarrassing.

I thought that Allen ran too much vs the Chiefs last year. He also took on defenders at times rather than avoid them. If he continues that it will only be a matter of time until he gets banged up or worse.

 

[1960Pats]

Baker was considered a top ten pick before Jan of that new year. I believe he dipped when the video came out but he always was in or around the top 5 - 10 since about Nov. Peaked at #1 about a month and a half before the draft around the middle of March. He really didn't shoot up believe it or not.

Just because Baker was considered a top ten QB doesn't mean that he is. I haven't seen that. Have you? And those are some of the same geniuses who thought Brady wasn't worth drafting. The draft is a crap shoot, even for people like you who follow it closely.

 

[1960Pats]

Running QBs can be successful. No doubt. But what you have to look at is... are they sustainable?

The thing that separates Jackson over every other running QB is how great he is as a runner. He doesn't have anywhere the same talent as a passer though and has already missed games due to injuries.

 

[1960Pats]

OK

Personally, I think that it is nonsense for folks to think that ownership and management should be held to similar standards as employees under contract.
========
For safety and many other issues, there are rules that are negotiated for employees. There is no reason for owners and managment to abide by these same rules.

I would agree with this if management treated all the players the same way, but they don't. Nothing ever happened to either Manning for their violations but Brady was taken over the coals for doing nothing wrong at all.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Just because Baker was considered a top ten QB doesn't mean that he is. I haven't seen that. Have you? And those are some of the same geniuses who thought Brady wasn't worth drafting. The draft is a crap shoot, even for people like you who follow it closely.

Not sure if you're following the other post but I'm not arguing the baker is the top 10 quarterback. He's definitely not. @TheRainMaker was saying he shot up the draft boards around draft time when there was a rumor NE was interested. He was considered a top ten pick long before that though. As far back as November. There's a few sites that follow that stuff religiously.

 

[Bill Lee]

The thing that separates Jackson over every other running QB is how great he is as a runner. He doesn't have anywhere the same talent as a passer though and has already missed games due to injuries.

How he gets ranked is, uhm, controversial...

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

The thing that separates Jackson over every other running QB is how great he is as a runner. He doesn't have anywhere the same talent as a passer though and has already missed games due to injuries.

Stop being wrong all the time. It's ok to admit you've been dead wrong. Not a big deal man. It's just football lol.





Higher comp %, ANY/A, Y/A, NY/A, AY/A and less sacks than Josh Allen and on par with Herbert.

 

[Kasmir]

Mahomes has run about 60 times a year. 60, 43, 62, 66. So he's relying on his legs just as much as he's always done. Allen 89, 109, 102, 122.

Sorry man but you really don't have a good handle on football. Like you're a Pats fan no doubt but have no idea what you're talking about regarding today's game and players. That much has been shown.

Sure but the position has undoubtedly changed. Of course you need to win in the pocket. No one ever disputes that but the player playing the position is different. Just look at the three QB's you brought up. All of them could win in the pocket and with their legs. The ability to scramble, buy time, run, RPO etc .. Cam lost, Mahomes has been to multiple and won one and Allen is the biggest factor by far that his team is a strong fav to win a SB this year. Not good examples to bring up.

Sure, pocket passers ruled the day for a long time but those days are gone. Once Brady goes that statement only becomes stronger.

This might sound good to say but truthfully it only works with early bird crowd. Dusty outdated talking points that make you feel good, for w/e reason. It's not like you're playing. It's a simple observation if one would open their eyes and be objective.

It's not necessarily an opinion or something I like or want. I simply don't ignore the obvious. You look at the best QB's in the league, most can win with their legs in some fashion. You look at who's getting drafted, especially early in the draft. And you see it's younger guys that can win with their legs too. As someone who's obsessed with college football and follows high school ball. That's not changing. I'm just not ignoring it or pretending it's not happening.

I think there is as serious longevity inconsistency with the current NFL obsession with QB's who can run.

QB's can have amongst the longest careers in the NFL. Running backs have the shortest careers. So QB running skills will erode far faster than QB passing skills. Indeed, because of the processing component passing skills tend to increase with experience despite aging and cumulative wear and tear.

So QB's differentiated by strong leg skills will tend to lose that advantage over time, and have to learn to compete more and more as a pocket QB.

There are lots of examples of this phenomenon. While there are some QB's that retain their "legs" advantage, it's almost always scrambling, not running, and their skills still erode quickly with time. Michael Vick was supernaturally quick early in his career, but despite having a strong arm became mediocre once his legs went.

Then there is our own Patriots experience. Brady, with perhaps the worst legs of all time for a successful QB, despite that became the GOAT and is still playing at an elite level at 45 years old. Cam Newton -- despite being perhaps the NCAA paradigm of a QB with legs and the NFL MVP at 26 years old -- was washed up at 30.

It's dangerous to conclude that pocket passers are passé.

I think the NFL trend that reinforces the fashion for running QB's are those teams that are trying to win on a new QB's first contract, which maximizes the appeal of QB's with legs, because they still have their legs when their passing skills become competitive through experience.

But their legs always go, and not just from running but from the cumulative physical pounding playing QB entails. In the end, arm skills and processing skills will always win out.

And you can't win with great legs and mediocre passing skills. Mac Jones was the best 1st round rookie QB by far last year despite being the weakest physically. And it took Josh Allen several years to become a good passer.

It's an old NFL vs NCAA story. The conventional wisdom used to be that running QB's always get injured fast in the NFL. Maybe some team will try to win by getting a new franchise QB with legs every 5 years or so, and after all with today's free agency you can always change your mind and bid on a successful pocket QB later on. But I suspect the career arcs of Michael Vick and Cam Newton will continue to be the likely outcomes for that style of QB.

The tortoises will still win the race.

Arms outlast legs, and brains last longest of all.