OT: Official 2021 Tompa Bay Gronkaneers Thread

[sb1]

I mean as I hope I’ve made clear over the last two years is that I was never a Bucs fans, I just wanted the best for Brady now that he was somehow else. So honestly for the sake of my Brady fanboy I now kind of want the Bucs to collapse because it’ll make the last two years look more impressive since people will go “wow, Brady was the only thing holding that pile of trash together.”

BuT w3 aR3 aLL BuC5 fAnZ nOw

Or something.

 

[VectorPrime]

If Bucs didn't have so many freaking injuries they probably would have been 16-1 or 16-2 and in the SB. Their 13-4 record was an at worse record.

With the downgrade in QB next season. They'll probably be 9-8 at worse to 12-5 at best. That is as long as they don't have so many injuries again.

Nah I think the record was right where it should have been. That loss against the Rams early on was a really tough spot on the road when the Rams looked unstoppable and the two Saints losses weren’t injury related except that in the second game the Saints literally attempted to hurt as many Bucs as possible.

But if they were healthy going into the playoffs after the 13-4 record that I think was what they deserved they win the Super Bowl. Zero doubt in my mind. That offense healthy wouldn’t be stopped by anyone else in the playoff field. When AB is your THIRD receiver and you have Gronk as your TE and a dual threat of Fournette and Gio as pass catching backs there’s nothing an opposing defense can do when it’s Brady pulling the trigger. The other team needs to hope they can score like at least 35 points as well which, to be fair, might have been possible by the Bills and the Chiefs if Mahomes doesn’t literally lose his mind like he did in that AFCCG. Because the Bucs secondary is suspect.

 

[VectorPrime]

There’s a lesson somewhere in that the best 6 offenses that Brady led all failed to win the Super Bowl due to injury. 2007 is more subtle because it involved an, at the time, underestimated high ankle sprain for Brady. But 2011 was screwed by Gronk being 50% AT BEST in the Super Bowl. 2012 got screwed by Gronk breaking his arm and IIRC Woodhead got injured in the divisional round as well. 2015 got screwed by Dion Lewis, Blount, and Solder being knocked out of the season and Edelman trying to play on a broken foot. 2017 got screwed by Edelman tearing his ACL in the pre season and Cooks literally running himself into a concussion in the Super Bowl. And in 2021 with Godwin tearing his ACL via a dirty hit, AB having a psychological breakdown, and the all world offensive tackle having his ankle torn off the bone. And yet in all those season Brady NEVER EVER EVER got embarrassed to end it. They were in the game until the end with the exception of the 2012 AFCCG when things fell apart when the Pats, down 7, ran the ball with Ridley who was literally knocked unconscious and fumbled which the Ravens returned for a touchdown. So that sucked.

Meanwhile I can only wonder what happens when Mahomes’ injury luck on offense runs out one of these years. What happens when Kelce or Hill tear their knee? I think we’ll see eventually, it’s inevitable in football.

 

[RicoG]

I am not rooting for a collapse either but their coaching is subpar which is why I see a pretty significant drop off. I also think they are going to lose a bunch of players on top and they have Brady's dead cap hit too.

I'd say middle of the road. It is only subpar cause you're comparing it to the Patriots. But even great coaching and great QB can't make a bunch of scrubs(which Brady played with in 2019) look like champions. The Bucs have been great the last few years with drafting and developing their players.

 

[VectorPrime]

I'd say middle of the road. It is only subpar cause you're comparing it to the Patriots. But even great coaching and great QB can't make a bunch of scrubs(which Brady played with in 2019) look like champions. The Bucs have been great the last few years with drafting and developing their players.

Theyre gonna lose Gronk, Fournette, OJ Howard (who sucks now but who knows), ROJO, and likely Godwin because they appear to be cheap all of a sudden.

 

[Guts]

2022 season. Mahomes, Kelce, Hill cap hit is 26, 9, and 29 mil. That is 33% of cap if it is 200 mil.

2023 season. Cap hit is 47, 15, and est 20 (for Hill if back). That is 37%of cap if it is 220 mil.

Don't think Mahmoes next 4 years will be good as his first 4.

They'll just borrow down the road. The cap can be easily manipulated

 

[RicoG]

They'll just borrow down the road. The cap can be easily manipulated

2022 season. Mahomes, Kelce, Hill cap hit is 36, 9, and 20 mil. That is 33% of cap if it is 200 mil.

I had a couple typos.

It won't be easy to borrow down the road. Starting in 2023 Mahomes cap hit will be 45-50 million each year for 5 years or so.

 

[Zarozzor]

There’s a lesson somewhere in that the best 6 offenses that Brady led all failed to win the Super Bowl due to injury. 2007 is more subtle because it involved an, at the time, underestimated high ankle sprain for Brady. But 2011 was screwed by Gronk being 50% AT BEST in the Super Bowl. 2012 got screwed by Gronk breaking his arm and IIRC Woodhead got injured in the divisional round as well. 2015 got screwed by Dion Lewis, Blount, and Solder being knocked out of the season and Edelman trying to play on a broken foot. 2017 got screwed by Edelman tearing his ACL in the pre season and Cooks literally running himself into a concussion in the Super Bowl. And in 2021 with Godwin tearing his ACL via a dirty hit, AB having a psychological breakdown, and the all world offensive tackle having his ankle torn off the bone. And yet in all those season Brady NEVER EVER EVER got embarrassed to end it. They were in the game until the end with the exception of the 2012 AFCCG when things fell apart when the Pats, down 7, ran the ball with Ridley who was literally knocked unconscious and fumbled which the Ravens returned for a touchdown. So that sucked.

Meanwhile I can only wonder what happens when Mahomes’ injury luck on offense runs out one of these years. What happens when Kelce or Hill tear their knee? I think we’ll see eventually, it’s inevitable in football.

It really is amazing how many seasons Brady’s had his weapons get injured. It seems like Hill and Kelce never get injured. I don’t know if this is true off the top of my head, but it seems like Manning’s guys always stayed healthy too.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

If you took out the QB and looked at every team’s roster, then applied some Madden team ratings estimate of overall strength, I’d wager that the large majority of the rosters around the league would be somewhere in between a 75 and 85 score.

Or, imagine every roster in the league was led by the same QB clone. Nearly every game would be handicapped by a only a few points.

 

[1960Pats]

I mean as I hope I’ve made clear over the last two years is that I was never a Bucs fans, I just wanted the best for Brady now that he was somehow else. So honestly for the sake of my Brady fanboy I now kind of want the Bucs to collapse because it’ll make the last two years look more impressive since people will go “wow, Brady was the only thing holding that pile of trash together.”

The fact that Brady held all of his teams together is what I'll remember.

Brady dealt with all comers, from PEDton to Mahomes and everyone in between, and he kicked all of them to the curb.

This is the end of an incredible era.

 

[Deus Irae]

Dolphins hiring Mike McDaniel as next head coach: Miami agrees to terms with 49ers offensive coordinator

 

[skinnydog]

2022 season. Mahomes, Kelce, Hill cap hit is 36, 9, and 20 mil. That is 33% of cap if it is 200 mil.

I had a couple typos.

It won't be easy to borrow down the road. Starting in 2023 Mahomes cap hit will be 45-50 million each year for 5 years or so.

if it were just mahomes, then Maybe they could do it. Kelce is actually under a very reasonable contract, but in 2022 his projected cap his is something like 7th highest on the team. Crazy cap hits for Chris Jones and Frank Clark. they are under the cap, but only have something like 38 players signed and the top 7 contracts take up over 60% of there cap in 2022. I'm sure they can clear space for this coming season, but it will become pregressively harder to do so.

 

[RicoG]

This is what someone wrote at another site. It must have been frustrating for Brady to know that the assistant coaches were busy interviewing and deciding which other Buc coaches they were going to take with them if hired.

Frustrating thing is if Pat were gifted with 4 fumbles, you know 100% that they'd put the nails in the coffin.

"IMO….when Brady talked about no distractions during the week of playoff games, he was sending a message to more than the players. It was a shot to the staff that he didn’t appreciate them interviewing when the whole purpose he was here was on the line. For three games in a row, Leftwich’s offense sputtered in the first half for an avg of 10 pts….in the biggest moment of what could have been another epic comeback by Brady, Bowles defense completely sh!ts itself with 40 seconds remaining leaving the best WR in the game open to set up a game winning FG. I think if that rubbed Brady wrong, his teammates took notice and might be a bit down as well on this staff."

 

[RicoG]

I don't mind the Buc coaches. But it always seemed that at some point they were going to shot themselves in the foot no matter what Brady did.

 

[amfootball]

This is what someone wrote at another site. It must have been frustrating for Brady to know that the assistant coaches were busy interviewing and deciding which other Buc coaches they were going to take with them if hired.

Frustrating thing is if Pat were gifted with 4 fumbles, you know 100% that they'd put the nails in the coffin.

"IMO….when Brady talked about no distractions during the week of playoff games, he was sending a message to more than the players. It was a shot to the staff that he didn’t appreciate them interviewing when the whole purpose he was here was on the line. For three games in a row, Leftwich’s offense sputtered in the first half for an avg of 10 pts….in the biggest moment of what could have been another epic comeback by Brady, Bowles defense completely sh!ts itself with 40 seconds remaining leaving the best WR in the game open to set up a game winning FG. I think if that rubbed Brady wrong, his teammates took notice and might be a bit down as well on this staff."

It has become obvious that Brady was planning on retiring well before the playoffs began and decided to leak it prior to the playoffs. The reasons? Who knows. I truly doubt the Bucs coaching was the primary factor given he had just won a SB with them throwing 50 total TDs at age 43 and Bowles defenses completely breaking Mahomes to help Brady secure ring #7.

 

[VectorPrime]

It has become obvious that Brady was planning on retiring well before the playoffs began and decided to leak it prior to the playoffs. The reasons? Who knows. I truly doubt the Bucs coaching was the primary factor given he had just won a SB with them throwing 50 total TDs at age 43 and Bowles defenses completely breaking Mahomes to help Brady secure ring #7.

He allegedly had issues with Arians running such a loose operation between games that Brady had to effectively be a player coach and actually get the entire team on the same page in a game planning sense.

 

[amfootball]

He allegedly had issues with Arians running such a loose operation between games that Brady had to effectively be a player coach and actually get the entire team on the same page in a game planning sense.

I just have a hard time believing it was the Bucs that made him ultimately retire. I mean I suppose anything is possible but his retirement speech lavished them with praise. Every single one from Glazer to Licht to Arians. I truly believe Brady loved what they did for him from the guaranteed contract at age 43 to going out and getting all his guys to signing everyone last year to make a run this year. I think sometimes we are under this notion that the coaching and culture were perfect in NE. It wasn't. Just read Gronk's comments from the 2017 season. Or look at this season and how our team wilted the final month of the season. Brady has been playing a looong time. He knows every season has adversity and he always navigates it to perfection. In other words, I have a tough time believing the greatest competitor in all of sports, playing at an MVP level, let any issues with a team he chose to go and won a SB with in year one drive him into retirement. Licht would have done anything he wanted to ensure he stayed.

 

[VectorPrime]

I just have a hard time believing it was the Bucs that made him ultimately retire. I mean I suppose anything is possible but his retirement speech lavished them with praise. Every single one from Glazer to Licht to Arians. I truly believe Brady loved what they did for him from the guaranteed contract at age 43 to going out and getting all his guys to signing everyone last year to make a run this year. I think sometimes we are under this notion that the coaching and culture were perfect in NE. It wasn't. Just read Gronk's comments from the 2017 season. Or look at this season and how our team wilted the final month of the season. Brady has been playing a looong time. He knows every season has adversity and he always navigates it to perfection. In other words, I have a tough time believing the greatest competitor in all of sports, playing at an MVP level, let any issues with a team he chose to go and won a SB with in year one drive him into retirement. Licht would have done anything he wanted to ensure he stayed.

I posted in this thread a few days ago that I can totally believe that the Glazers are simply not willing to pay the big up front guaranteed money that would be required immediately this year to effectively maneuver the cap to bring everyone good back and upgrade where needed. The cap isn’t a problem next year, it’s a friendly situation for the Bucs. But the contracts that are new and to be restructured will require a big up front checks in signing bonuses to make it all work. And the Glazers probably won’t do it because as the English know they’re cheap. We have heard enough from reporters about how the Bucs “can’t” bring everyone back next season that supports this.

 

[amfootball]

I posted in this thread a few days ago that I can totally believe that the Glazers are simply not willing to pay the big up front guaranteed money that would be required immediately this year to effectively maneuver the cap to bring everyone good back and upgrade where needed. The cap isn’t a problem next year, it’s a friendly situation for the Bucs. But the contracts that are new and to be restructured will require a big up front checks in signing bonuses to make it all work. And the Glazers probably won’t do it because as the English know they’re cheap. We have heard enough from reporters about how the Bucs “can’t” bring everyone back next season that supports this.

How much upgrade does the team really need though? The team was the most talented in the league but was derailed by injuries. I have a tough time believing they would not do what it takes to make the moves necessary given they did exactly that for 2 years when Brady got there. I mean you can't make it perfect but the NFC is a dumpster except for the Rams.

 

[VectorPrime]

How much upgrade does the team really need though? The team was the most talented in the league but was derailed by injuries. I have a tough time believing they would not do what it takes to make the moves necessary given they did exactly that for 2 years when Brady got there. I mean you can't make it perfect but the NFC is a dumpster except for the Rams.

I’m extremely aware of how weak the NFC appears to be going into next year which is why I find this so extra frustrating. But Godwin, Fournette, Gronk, ROJO, their center, Suh, JPP, Davis are all free agents. They can move on from Suh and JPP but the rest need signing. And then you HAVE to upgrade at corner. Somehow. And figure out who can better rush the passer than a broken JPP and get him too.

It can be done. The cap is NOT the issue here. But that’s a BIG check to write in a single offseason because to make all these deals fit into the cap will require big signing bonuses that pushes the cap hit into like 2024. And these billionaire super owners who own teams as part of a portfolio like the Glazers don’t care if winning another Super Bowl next year pays off down the line in increasing the overall value of the team. It’s about the next fiscal year and investing that much capital in one offseason is “bad” business because that hundred million + bucks can earn a larger short term return in some other venture.

It sucks. But it’s reality for a lot of owners and especially the Glazers as Man U fans know. Glazer won another ring and it increased the team’s evaluation by like 33% in one year. Another ring will not increase it by as much and isn’t worth the investment when it’s just all about maximizing the dollars and cents.