Game Day Thread Official Post Game Thread- Bills beat the Pats

[Hammer of Thor]

The PFF stats are a little misleading. First, the Pats had their bye during the 11-16 week period. So that makes it four games. Second, they passed only three times in Buffalo which gave him a poor PFF grade. Part of it is that they didn't trust him to throw, but I don't think they would have trusted many QBs to throw in that weather. So we are really talking three games during that time period.

It’s the selective endpoint issue which people with agendas try to do with statistics in general.

He played 5 games in those 6 weeks. Week 11 at Atlanta he was 22/26 207 with 1 TD and a pick. Week 12 against Tennessee he was 23/32 for 310 with 2 TDs and 0 picks. I’m curious as to what his PFF scores were those weeks; they may not have been great (dropped int maybe, not enough ypa maybe), but they couldn’t have been bad. After that was the 3 pass attempt game and the bye as you mentioned.

Mac wasn’t good the last 2 weeks. We all know it. But someone with an agenda is trying to get attention and show it as part of a longer trend. It’s not. But he definitely needs to step it up going forward if we expect the Pats to succeed.

 

[ashley]

Bill spent the most money in FA on a defensive player (Judon) who is literally a sack specialist and nothing else.

So now you're telling me that Judon was a bad signing? Wow

 

[amfootball]

You might try looking up the record Bill has against the Bills and Reich before you start trolling.

Historically no. But hard to argue over the last couple of years.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

And the award for the whiniest, most-entitled and spoiled fan base goes to...

"This guy sucks!" "That guys sucks more!!!" "Why aren't we getting all-pros for 6 million/year?!?!?!?????"

The Patriots aren't there yet, but they're a lot closer than they were last year and a lot closer than I expected them to be at this point.

The last 2 games have been playoff intensity - which means teams getting away with crap that would normally get called, like headhunting in Indy, holding on the OL, etc. It's up-scale, WAY more intense football than anything the Pats QB has seen. So he's on a script, whereas Josh Allen, who is legitimately one of the best in the league right now, is seeing things and exploiting them. This is also why Mac Jones is going to cost a few million the next few years, while Allen starts hitting 40-50m against the cap in 2023 for the next 7 years.

Kind of how it works...

The areas of needed improvement for next year are becoming clear - we can talk about those after the season, which isn't over...in January.

Three things have buried the Pats in the last couple of games:

1. Jones is seeing things he's never seen before. Defenses have caught up to the limited game plan the Pats are running. 2 weeks in a row, he's been fooled by an undercutting LB to the cost of a pick. To make it worse, without the much-,aligned (by many on this board) Agholor, the box got smaller yesterday, and even more so with Bourne getting no reps all week and little play time yesterday. Surprised as hell that they weren't using two TEs and getting them the ball.

2. When I watch December/January games, I like to watch what happens when a back or slot guy catches the ball about 4 yards over the line of scrimmage. When Meyers or Bolden caught one, they got their head removed yesterday and the week before, whereas the Buffalo guys caught and ran about 3 yard before being hauled down over and over again. That tells you who's setting the tone and who's laying back.

3. I'm sorrying, but the refereeing these last few weeks, league-wide has been garbage. Wholly inconsistent and with all the calls going in certain directions. I'm not just talking Pats here. Not at all. It's been horrific - and the absolutely ridiculous answers to the sideline hit and Andrews' unsportsmanlike should tell you all you need to know about that crap-show yesterday.

I'm optimistic that the Pats will climb back in soon enough.

The rookie QB is promising. It takes time. Every player says the game "slows down" in year two. This isn't Mac Jones team. Not yet. He's going to have to make it his team.

And for those saying "trade this guy!" trade that guy!" "get DeVonte Adams!!!!!!" - quit listening to Felger. Cap ain't crap, sorry. The Pats will spend next year truly figuring out which pieces fit, and the year after that loading up with some new shiny pieces. They've built the core this year, have some older guys who will be moving on and need to fill in the next level through draft, FA as Mac develops.

The discussion has not been at all overly critical and not whiny at all. Posts like these are the problem. No one has said anything remotely close to this.

"This guy sucks!" "That guys sucks more!!!" "Why aren't we getting all-pros for 6 million/year?!?!?!?????"

And for those saying "trade this guy!" trade that guy!" "get DeVonte Adams!!!!!!" - quit listening to Felger. Cap ain't crap, sorry.

You should stay away from football discussions…what will happen is the Patriots will bring in a high-impact impact skill player next year, and you’ll wave your pom poms and act like you didn’t whine whenever anyone here suggested they do so.

Christ…look at Brady last week against the Saints with no playmakers. Then look at the difference against the Panthers. Having just one guy - AB - creating all those mismatches completely changes the game. As we saw in 2019 and last week, no QB can expect to succeed consistently without an elite receiver or TE who can be the focal point of the offense. The team struggled often in past years due to this: 2005, 2006, 2013, 2019, and at times when Gronk/Edelman were injured. And that’s with Brady, not a developing rookie.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

I know Bill isn't stupid, but it seems to me he needs to do an honest evaluation of the choices he's been making to fill the skill position roles and/or the way the coaching staff is using the players, because his record spending binge is not producing great results, nor has the recent use of premium draft picks.

He took the two second round swings at TE and then he took the best two TEs available in FA and we are getting very little production from the position. Gronk-level talent is hard to find. Seems they should realize it isn't out there and do a big recalibration based on resources spent versus production received. If your play calling is based on Gronk-level talent and you don't have Gronk-level talent, it's time to change the play calling.

I have been really patient on Harry, but week after week we see mediocrity at best. Nice that he can block on occasion, but he is at best mediocre at catching the ball. IMO he does seem protected, in that his high draft position seems to give him more chances than his play has merited. This is pretty upsetting, usually Bill runs a meritocracy, the best players play regardless of how they were acquired. You really can't put Harry out there on a play were you expect him to catch the ball, he doesn't get separation and he often doesn't make the kind of plays that you expect a professional WR to make when the ball is sent his way.

It was kind of interesting to see Byrd highlights yesterday. Seems we are finding good second level talent like Byrd and Bourne but aren't taking advantage of it.

I know the post is pretty negative, but IMO one reason the defense made no stops yesterday was because the offense was so inconsistent and put the defense back on the field time after time. The grind it out style of football we think the Patriots are aiming for only works when you win the time of possession battle, IMO.

Well said.

You have to think from the perspective of a lowIQ oc brain. Who only adjusts very slowly only after multiple losses and after something is extremely obvious but probably the last to realize. One that thinks Karras can't play LG so benches him for zero reason for 6 weeks. One that thinks Onwenu is not a tackle for 6 weeks. One that thinks NKeal Harry is an outside receiver. One that think Jonnu Smith is a blocking tight end. One that thinks Bourne is only a WR3 so inexpicably plays less than NKeal last game.

These players get boxed in on idiotic oc evals and it's hard to get out of how the oc sees them. Same reason why Meyers never gets any red zone plays.

 

[amfootball]

So now you're telling me that Judon was a bad signing? Wow

No. But out of character for Bill. We let Jones walk because he was a sack specialist who BTW can set the edge and has the most tackles for losses too but I digress. In an off-season where the offense needed the most work, Bill spent the most money on Judon which IMO kind of speaks to his team building approach. I say this to help temper expectations that Bill will go out and sign a bunch of #1 skill guys.

 

[ashley]

Historically no. But hard to argue over the last couple of years.

It was just last year and we had literally no talent with Cam at qb...this year we went 1-1 against them....

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Historically no. But hard to argue over the last couple of years.

This isn't the Patriots of old. The 2019 team and now this team... These are Pats who lose multiple times in Dec, fade and then get trounced in playoffs. Who see an opponent multiple times and lose their 2nd or 3rd times. BB needs to upgrade his oc, NT, and ILB.

 

[ashley]

No. But out of character for Bill. We let Jones walk because he was a sack specialist who BTW can set the edge and has the most tackles for losses too but I digress. In an off-season where the offense needed the most work, Bill spent the most money on Judon which IMO kind of speaks to his team building approach. I say this to help temper expectations that Bill will go out and sign a bunch of #1 skill guys.

We didn't have any salary cap money to spend with Chandler......do you think if Bill had a choice he wouldn't want Jones on our team? I don't know BB very well, but I'm guessing no.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

…look at Brady last week against the Saints with no playmakers.

He had playmakers last week...he just wasn't able to adjust once Godwin went down. And in any event, the Saints were owning him before the injury even occurred.

 

[Bill Lee]

Those of you here who are suddenly giving up on Mac and stating with confidence that he “is not the guy” are morons.

There's a whole spectrum of what 'the guy' is.

I remember when Mac was drafted there were a lot of comparisons to players like early-era Chad Pennington before the injuries or Derek Carr. Are they 'the guy' type QBs? Yet most here were fine with getting Mac, considering we were coming off a year of Cam/Hoyer/Stid and only had the 15th pick in the draft.

Seems to me we need to take a big step back and say Mac is an NFL quality QB with room to improve since he's only a rookie, but probably won't be the type of QB that can carry the team on his back. A Pennington or a Carr, but not a Mahomes or a Rogers or even an Allen. For him to be successful we'll need an overall high level of talent around him, and we're a few players short of that, despite our recent big spend at the skills position. Unfortunately for us, we're now in a division with Allen, and IMO he just showed he is the kind of QB that can carry a team on his back when he's on his game.

The first INT was not a good decision or throw, but it was tipped by the linebacker and never would've happened if Harry had caught the pass that hit him right in the hands the play before that.

It doesn't work that way. WRs miss open catches all the time, I saw plenty of that watching three different games yesterday. It doesn't then excuse a throw where his receiver was double-covered and there was coverage underneath as well. I'm pretty sure Mac would say that one was on him.

Having said that, if the defense had managed to get one goddamn stop on that late fourth-quarter drive by the Bills (or definitely if JC had not pulled an Asante, I would have been confident that Mac would drive them down the field for a score, especially given that they would have had multiple timeouts and a two minute warning to work with, if they have been able to stop the Bills early in their drive.

Seems to me optimism bias is controlling your thoughts. The D didn't get a stop IMO because the O was so inconsistent all day long and left the D on the field too long. The O can't keep relying on the D for just one more stop, the O has to keep producing back-to-back grind-it-out drives for this team to win. That's what all that ball control offense talk is all about.

Sorry, we read the same stuff last week after the IND game, if HT makes the one tackle we get the ball back and win the game, but that assumes facts not in evidence.

Let's take a look at Brady's last 5 games in 2001....

Bleep that. It's a different QB with different players around him, different coaches at different stages of their careers, different levels of intensity, overall a different era.

 

[amfootball]

We didn't have any salary cap money to spend with Chandler......do you think if Bill had a choice he wouldn't want Jones on our team? I don't know BB very well, but I'm guessing no.

Yes we did. Bill just chose to trade him as he didn't believe he was worth the money. Same with Flowers who was a better overall player than Jones.

 

[PaulThePat]

Andrews' unsportsmanlike should tell you all you need to know about that crap-show yesterday.

I just knew we were going to get offsetting penalties on that one. Bills player with a late flop onto Jones. Andrews is angry because his QB has been on the end of crunching hit. To throw a flag (or hat in this case) was just nit-picking crap. You think if Mahomes had been on the end of a late hit and his OL got angry that there would be offsetting penalties? Think not.

 

[ashley]

I'm just ready to get on to Jax and get our 10th win.......This next game can't come fast enough for me!!!!

We're making the playoffs, it's just a matter of adjusting and seeing how far we can go.....

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

He had playmakers last week...he just wasn't able to adjust once Godwin went down. And in any event, the Saints were owning him before the injury even occurred.

I can see you desperately want to sidetrack this into a Brady discussion, where you foam at the mouth to criticize your ex-crush. It isn’t at all relevant to the Patriots. I’m discussing Mac Jones and using Brady’s recent struggles only to highlight a point. Maybe Ian and Ashley can create a separate sub-forum for you where you can obsessively troll by yourself.

 

[PWRxWLF]

1. Jones is seeing things he's never seen before. Defenses have caught up to the limited game plan the Pats are running. 2 weeks in a row, he's been fooled by an undercutting LB to the cost of a pick.

I'm optimistic that the Pats will climb back in soon enough.

The rookie QB is promising. It takes time. Every player says the game "slows down" in year two. This isn't Mac Jones team. Not yet. He's going to have to make it his team.

I know it’s going to seem like I’m being a smart ass here, but I’m not. All 3 Ints by those LB’ers were some pretty athletic plays. That’s not something he has practiced against very often. I’ve gotta remind myself that he is still learning what he can get away with and what he can’t. He looks like he is processing a lot out there still. Also, I really think guys aren’t getting where they’re supposed to be out there. Some of those throws that have happened lately look like he is throwing to a specific spot with anticipation and no one is getting there. I could be trippin’. I don’t know, just looks like the whole passing game is out of whack. I’m a Mac Maniac. I Believe the young man is going to be really good in this league.
I’m more worried that all this money that was spent and guys can’t get consistent separation. We’re stuck with Algholor and Smith for another year. Hopefully more time in the system will get them where we need them. With a running game as good as ours is, there’s no excuse for guys not being able to beat man coverage and get open on quick plays, or get more chunk yardage off PA.

Sorry, I’m ranting. Still frustrated.

 

[TomPatriot]

Historically no. But hard to argue over the last couple of years.

If you count the Covid year for much, I don’t know what to say. This year the Pats are 1-1 v. the Bills. Frank Reich has coached one game against the Pats (10 days ago) in the last couple of years. Not exactly dominance.

 

[amfootball]

If you count the Covid year for much, I don’t know what to say. This year the Pats are 1-1 v. the Bills. Frank Reich has coached one game against the Pats (10 days ago) in the last couple of years. Not exactly dominance.

I said the last two years so yeah last year counts. LOL. Reich also beat Bill in the SB too with Philly.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

No. But out of character for Bill. We let Jones walk because he was a sack specialist who BTW can set the edge and has the most tackles for losses too but I digress. In an off-season where the offense needed the most work, Bill spent the most money on Judon which IMO kind of speaks to his team building approach. I say this to help temper expectations that Bill will go out and sign a bunch of #1 skill guys.

As you know from my posts in the Tampa thread about Shaq Barrett, I completely agree, although Judon is better than Barrett. That said, considering how much money they had to burn, I think overall these were good signings (J. Smith is the only really bad one). Or, another way of putting it is $15M per year on a FA could be wasted a lot worse than Judon. They paid for a position (edge rusher) where they don’t usually spend a lot because it’s so overvalued, but at least they got a very good one in Judon.

I don’t like that they had that much money to spend to begin with, but that’s a different issue.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

We didn't have any salary cap money to spend with Chandler......do you think if Bill had a choice he wouldn't want Jones on our team? I don't know BB very well, but I'm guessing no.

We were up against the cap, had won a SB two years earlier and lost the AFCCG that year. We chose to let him walk and spend the money on Hightower, Solder, and Marty Bennett. They made the SB the next 3 years winning 2 of them. I think they made the right decision, even if BB would have preferred to keep Jones if there were no salary cap.

Contrast to 2020 when our roster was bare to the bone and we had a ton of cap space after the year. We could afford a guy like that now. That said, Judon had been good against run earlier this season and his play has since dropped off; he needs to pick it up or he might not see the end of his contract if a pricier better guy becomes available.