Game Day Thread Official Post Game Thread- Bills beat the Pats

[PATSYLICIOUS]

We'll have Rhamondre back for the next game, which would help our running game a lot.

also great to see damian back to form and he didn’t tweak that hammy. Could be one of the best takeaways going into the stretch

 

[RobertWeathers]

At the moment I kind of view him as Brian Hoyer without the diaper dump when faced with pressure. He could have a very solid and lucrative 15 year career being called “the best backup QB in the NFL” by all the broadcasters when his team is playing, and a SB contender roster could win it all with him starting if needed. That said, this would ultimately be a big disappointment if that’s all he winds up being.

I keep reading that he’s a film junkie and a very smart QB. He needs to take all he learned this year and process it to minimize the mistakes next year. “Knowing all the answers to the test” as Brady says (knowing the NFL hasn’t yet given Mac all the questions, but knowing the answers to the questions he’s seen). Meanwhile he needs to build an NFL QB body and gain just a couple mph on his fastball. That combination could take him from Brian Hoyer+ to top 10 NFL QB pretty quickly. We’ll see how truly dedicated he is to his craft this offseason. Hopefully he gets good advice to make this transformation. He should reach out to Brady himself who did exactly that.

I'm still very high on Mac. I do believe next year he'll process things faster just because of his experience in games and in film study. Additionally he'll be stronger.

 

[VectorPrime]

What gets me with some posters are comments like "all you Mac lovers". Aren't we all Mac lovers? Don't we all want the kid to succeed? If not, why not? Genuinely confused. Are there still some on here who think we should have sold the future for Trey Lance? Why? What's he done? What will he do? Get behind the current QB or take your pink hat and get outa here.

I wasn’t a Drew lover and it turned out we were right.

 

[Marko]

I would magnify the undisciplined plays this game. Barmore's penalty was an incredible momentum swing.

Josh Allen has a bit of choker in him in tight games and we did enough with our stupid plays to let him off the hook.

Agreed, so was Brown’s unsportsmanlike conduct.

 

[Rob0729]

I’ve been thinking of what could be the main culprit from the last two games. I’ll give it a go:

1)



2)

Judon has a combined two pressures & no sacks the last two games. He’s went from a DPOY candidate to a non factor as a pass rusher.

3)

Hightower is PFF’s 83rd graded LB since the road bills game. We know he’s not the same player but he was still making plays earlier this season.

Three of the teams top players have either run out of gas or are playing injured - Judon in particular may be limited. He can probably end two drives on his own if he was playing to his abilities.

This can be taken one of two ways. The pats are one and done with this level of play from them or the they could make a run if they can turn it around. Hard to see a comeback with no bye though.

The PFF stats are a little misleading. First, the Pats had their bye during the 11-16 week period. So that makes it four games. Second, they passed only three times in Buffalo which gave him a poor PFF grade. Part of it is that they didn't trust him to throw, but I don't think they would have trusted many QBs to throw in that weather. So we are really talking three games during that time period.

 

[ohiopatsfan]

The Pats are about where most people probably thought/hoped they would be right now; a winning record and a wild card spot in the playoffs. The 7 game winning streak raised the bar on expectations but, in the end, this is a good team that can win most games as long as they are hitting on all cylinders and play mistake free football. There is very little margin for error. That said, progress was definately made from 2020 to 2021 and, with another good draft and a step up in the learning curve from Jones, further progress should be made in 2022.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I've never been a WE NEED A PLAYMAKA AT WIDE RECEIVAH! guy but I am getting to that point.

I'd need to a rewatch to confirm but BUF played us 8 in the box and flooded the middle of the field. They left their DBs in single coverage on the outside vs our WRs, Rinse, repeat.

..and Jonnu with only 21 snaps. Alleged playmaker...Jesus.

As @Hammer of Thor pointed out, this doesn’t need to be some big splash outside receiver who razzle dazzles. Anyone who can provide elite production will work, be it a big outside guy, an all-around inside/outside guy, a stud TE, etc. The guy needs to beat man coverage and make defenses pay for not doubling him. Most teams have at least one of those guys.

Patriots fans claim the team gets by without one of these players, but that hasn’t been true at all in the last 15 years. It’s easy to say “we don’t need a number one receiver” when they had the best skill player in the league (Gronkowski), often the best middle of field receiver (Welker, Edelman), and a couple years of Moss. Amendola got a huge contract in 2013 as well. They’ve certainly made efforts to do this…the compound effect of a great receiving threat making life easier for everyone else makes the investment worth it, if you can get the right player.

Jonnu sucks…but he was never very good in TN either. It’s not like you can say he’ll reach a higher level, since he’s never been at a higher level beyond feasting on TDs off of TN’s power running attack. Just a head scratching signing for all that money.

 

[Marko]

Any chance that Buffalo loses to either the Falcons or Jete? Both won today so maybe they can make a game out of it with Buffalo. If we end up the 6th seed, we could very well get a rematch with Buffalo. We can beat these guys. It's a matter of keeping our head on straight and executing.

The NFL has been crazy this year, the Bills lost to Jacksonville, the Cardinals to the Lions. One thing for sure is it would be a mistake to take the Jaguars lately, as it gives Lawrence a chance to prove his worth.

 

[Bill Lee]

I am not talking about Adams or Godwin or Robinson. There are second tier #1 WRs out there.

And before this offseason, people said Belichick would never spend a record amount for the league on free agency or start a rookie QB the first game of his rookie season. Belichick changes with the time. Don’t put anything past him.

And Belichick isn’t stupid. He sees the production from Agholor. He may keep him, but I am sure he sees the Pats need an upgrade at the position and a target Jones can rely on.

I know Bill isn't stupid, but it seems to me he needs to do an honest evaluation of the choices he's been making to fill the skill position roles and/or the way the coaching staff is using the players, because his record spending binge is not producing great results, nor has the recent use of premium draft picks.

He took the two second round swings at TE and then he took the best two TEs available in FA and we are getting very little production from the position. Gronk-level talent is hard to find. Seems they should realize it isn't out there and do a big recalibration based on resources spent versus production received. If your play calling is based on Gronk-level talent and you don't have Gronk-level talent, it's time to change the play calling.

I have been really patient on Harry, but week after week we see mediocrity at best. Nice that he can block on occasion, but he is at best mediocre at catching the ball. IMO he does seem protected, in that his high draft position seems to give him more chances than his play has merited. This is pretty upsetting, usually Bill runs a meritocracy, the best players play regardless of how they were acquired. You really can't put Harry out there on a play were you expect him to catch the ball, he doesn't get separation and he often doesn't make the kind of plays that you expect a professional WR to make when the ball is sent his way.

It was kind of interesting to see Byrd highlights yesterday. Seems we are finding good second level talent like Byrd and Bourne but aren't taking advantage of it.

I know the post is pretty negative, but IMO one reason the defense made no stops yesterday was because the offense was so inconsistent and put the defense back on the field time after time. The grind it out style of football we think the Patriots are aiming for only works when you win the time of possession battle, IMO.

 

[RobertWeathers]

As @Hammer of Thor pointed out, this doesn’t need to be some big splash outside receiver who razzle dazzles. Anyone who can provide elite production will work, be it a big outside guy, an all-around inside/outside guy, a stud TE, etc. The guy needs to beat man coverage and make defenses pay for not doubling him. Most teams have at least one of those guys.

Patriots fans claim the team gets by without one of these players, but that hasn’t been true at all in the last 15 years. It’s easy to say “we don’t need a number one receiver” when they had the best skill player in the league (Gronkowski), often the best middle of field receiver (Welker, Edelman), and a couple years of Moss. Amendola got a huge contract in 2013 as well. They’ve certainly made efforts to do this…the compound effect of a great receiving threat making life easier for everyone else makes the investment worth it, if you can get the right player.

Yep. As long a defenses are forced to honestly cover all parts of the field that'll work.

Right now that is not the case.

 

[Ross12]

What gets me with some posters are comments like "all you Mac lovers". Aren't we all Mac lovers? Don't we all want the kid to succeed? If not, why not? Genuinely confused. Are there still some on here who think we should have sold the future for Trey Lance? Why? What's he done? What will he do? Get behind the current QB or take your pink hat and get outa here.

I think those sorts of comments carry a sort of "pro-Brady" grudge, that's the only way I can make sense of it. Some folks seemingly don't want Mac to succeed, I don't believe it's due to them wanting some other QB in the draft but rather that they are still mad at Bill for "letting Brady go" and thus want every QB post-Brady to be bad so they can trash on Belichick until the end of time. I guess. Not that I want anyone to start that argument for the fifty-sixth-thousandth time on here...

I wasn’t a Drew lover and it turned out we were right.

Yeah but there's a big difference between wanting them to try someone else on the roster over Drew and this. It's not like there's another QB behind Mac who is more likely to give the team short-term or long-term success, unless you think Stidham is that guy.

 

[jdlboot14]

We can point fingers at specific culprits, but the bye really screwed this team's momentum and mojo.
Don't know what happened, but they haven't looked the same since. No intensity, no urgency, since sticking a knife in Mac's confidence by only letting him throw 3x because of "wind", he's been off and jittery.
I know Agholor hasn't been a "#1" as some thought he would be, but he's a hell of a lot better than Harry. So, getting him back with our trio of decent #2's, I hope they can respond vs. the bottom dweller of the NFL. Even so, a win won't mean much, but might help re-sync the team before an important finale @Mia. I'm not expecting anything in the playoffs, but a 50/50 chance we'll play the Bills again - and anything can happen the 3rd matchup.

 

[amfootball]

I think the team needs to stop playing around and bring in a true #1 receiver, tight end, or whatever alpha is needed. Having a bunch of #2 options works when everything is working perfectly…strong run game, playing with a lead, etc. It makes it a lot tougher for a young QB when his “security blanket” is Agholor or Henry, two guys who are solid role players on most teams. Unfortunately a lot of money is tied up now in the guys they brought in. Hoping they can figure out a way to make it happen. It’s not like it’s unprecedented: they traded a first for Cooks just a few years ago, a second for Sanu, a second for Welker, and a fourth for Moss.

This has always been the issue IMO post Brady. Would Bill change his philosophy and surround our young QB with legit talent. Brady was the best at making hay with mediocre skill guys but he is the unicorn as we all know. There is no arguing that Bill spent like crazy on the position in FA BUT what did we really get that moved the needle? A bunch of 2s and 3s that we drastically overpaid for which we had to as we decided the best way back to contention was to spend the $165 mil the first week of FA. I don't disagree at all with that plan BTW as it has produced a winning season and potentially a playoff birth but if we are thinking long term and what Mac needs and this offense to truly contend with the elite teams which are really elite offenses led by elite QBs than Bill has to spend on dynamic play makers so this team can score in bunches and have a wider margin for error too.

It is also worth pointing out that after the offense had its worst production last year since 2000 in large part due to its awful offense led by a washed Newton, Bill spent the most money in FA on a defensive player (Judon) who is literally a sack specialist and nothing else. I am not sure Bill looks at this offense now and sees the need we all do for some legit #1s anywhere. I think he goes full on in getting LBs and rebuilding the secondary as I believe Jackson is gone - he will get HUGE offers and be gone first week of FA. If Mac is lucky, maybe he looks for a tier 2 slot guy in the vein of a poor's man Edelman.

 

[Marko]

As @Hammer of Thor pointed out, this doesn’t need to be some big splash outside receiver who razzle dazzles. Anyone who can provide elite production will work, be it a big outside guy, an all-around inside/outside guy, a stud TE, etc. The guy needs to beat man coverage and make defenses pay for not doubling him. Most teams have at least one of those guys.

Patriots fans claim the team gets by without one of these players, but that hasn’t been true at all in the last 15 years. It’s easy to say “we don’t need a number one receiver” when they had the best skill player in the league (Gronkowski), often the best middle of field receiver (Welker, Edelman), and a couple years of Moss. Amendola got a huge contract in 2013 as well. They’ve certainly made efforts to do this…the compound effect of a great receiving threat making life easier for everyone else makes the investment worth it, if you can get the right player.

Yes and add Kevin Faulk, Shane Vereen, Dion Lewis and James White. Bolden has played over his head but not someone that scares a defense like White.

 

[50-yard-line]

And the award for the whiniest, most-entitled and spoiled fan base goes to...

"This guy sucks!" "That guys sucks more!!!" "Why aren't we getting all-pros for 6 million/year?!?!?!?????"

The Patriots aren't there yet, but they're a lot closer than they were last year and a lot closer than I expected them to be at this point.

The last 2 games have been playoff intensity - which means teams getting away with crap that would normally get called, like headhunting in Indy, holding on the OL, etc. It's up-scale, WAY more intense football than anything the Pats QB has seen. So he's on a script, whereas Josh Allen, who is legitimately one of the best in the league right now, is seeing things and exploiting them. This is also why Mac Jones is going to cost a few million the next few years, while Allen starts hitting 40-50m against the cap in 2023 for the next 7 years.

Kind of how it works...

The areas of needed improvement for next year are becoming clear - we can talk about those after the season, which isn't over...in January.

Three things have buried the Pats in the last couple of games:

1. Jones is seeing things he's never seen before. Defenses have caught up to the limited game plan the Pats are running. 2 weeks in a row, he's been fooled by an undercutting LB to the cost of a pick. To make it worse, without the much-,aligned (by many on this board) Agholor, the box got smaller yesterday, and even more so with Bourne getting no reps all week and little play time yesterday. Surprised as hell that they weren't using two TEs and getting them the ball.

2. When I watch December/January games, I like to watch what happens when a back or slot guy catches the ball about 4 yards over the line of scrimmage. When Meyers or Bolden caught one, they got their head removed yesterday and the week before, whereas the Buffalo guys caught and ran about 3 yard before being hauled down over and over again. That tells you who's setting the tone and who's laying back.

3. I'm sorrying, but the refereeing these last few weeks, league-wide has been garbage. Wholly inconsistent and with all the calls going in certain directions. I'm not just talking Pats here. Not at all. It's been horrific - and the absolutely ridiculous answers to the sideline hit and Andrews' unsportsmanlike should tell you all you need to know about that crap-show yesterday.

I'm optimistic that the Pats will climb back in soon enough.

The rookie QB is promising. It takes time. Every player says the game "slows down" in year two. This isn't Mac Jones team. Not yet. He's going to have to make it his team.

And for those saying "trade this guy!" trade that guy!" "get DeVonte Adams!!!!!!" - quit listening to Felger. Cap ain't crap, sorry. The Pats will spend next year truly figuring out which pieces fit, and the year after that loading up with some new shiny pieces. They've built the core this year, have some older guys who will be moving on and need to fill in the next level through draft, FA as Mac develops.

 

[TomPatriot]

Brady has played in these conditions plenty of times and the team didn’t ignore the passing game. Cassel played in worse wind in Buffalo and threw 8 times completing 6.

Could be wrong but I think the reins are still on Mac for whatever reason.

He’s a rookie who has played in 15 NFL games.

 

[Rob0729]

I know Bill isn't stupid, but it seems to me he needs to do an honest evaluation of the choices he's been making to fill the skill position roles and/or the way the coaching staff is using the players, because his record spending binge is not producing great results, nor has the recent use of premium draft picks.

He took the two second round swings at TE and then he took the best two TEs available in FA and we are getting very little production from the position. Gronk-level talent is hard to find. Seems they should realize it isn't out there and do a big recalibration based on resources spent versus production received. If your play calling is based on Gronk-level talent and you don't have Gronk-level talent, it's time to change the play calling.

I have been really patient on Harry, but week after week we see mediocrity at best. Nice that he can block on occasion, but he is at best mediocre at catching the ball. IMO he does seem protected, in that his high draft position seems to give him more chances than his play has merited. This is pretty upsetting, usually Bill runs a meritocracy, the best players play regardless of how they were acquired. You really can't put Harry out there on a play were you expect him to catch the ball, he doesn't get separation and he often doesn't make the kind of plays that you expect a professional WR to make when the ball is sent his way.

It was kind of interesting to see Byrd highlights yesterday. Seems we are finding good second level talent like Byrd and Bourne but aren't taking advantage of it.

I know the post is pretty negative, but IMO one reason the defense made no stops yesterday was because the offense was so inconsistent and put the defense back on the field time after time. The grind it out style of football we think the Patriots are aiming for only works when you win the time of possession battle, IMO.

I think they are getting good production from Henry. Smith has been a complete bust. I don't get why. He should have been a solid contributor. I just don't get it, But look around the league. Most teams are not getting much production from their TEs other than in the red zone. There are only so many Kelces and Kittles in this league right now. It is a bad era for TEs.

It is puzzling why they do not use Bourne more. They aren't even putting him on the field that much in a lot of games since he is mostly playing the 3rd/slot spot.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I know Bill isn't stupid, but it seems to me he needs to do an honest evaluation of the choices he's been making to fill the skill position roles and/or the way the coaching staff is using the players, because his record spending binge is not producing great results, nor has the recent use of premium draft picks.

He took the two second round swings at TE and then he took the best two TEs available in FA and we are getting very little production from the position. .

We are getting exactly what HH has done throughout his career. He'll finish with 50+ catches and 500+ yds and double digit TDs. If you want to call him an overpay fine but he has met his typical historical production this year.

Smith has been a colossal disappointment. No debate there. Zero catches on zero targets in the biggest game of the year. Good lord.

Bourne has exceeded expectations.

Agholor has done a less than what I thought he'd do here. I figured 50 catches 700yds.

Who cares about Asiasi and Keene. Mid round picks...Whatever.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Is he legit? Spread shotgun is a staple of this offense. If he can't run that then what's the point? Hand off to Harris 90 percent?

For a rookie QB I'm in no rush to stat-chase so his oc can get a new job. I'd be ok with a run-dominant offense for a rookie QB, yea. Especially when your LT is a turnstile and your rookie QB has had a knee brace since preseason. On the other hand.... I am probably going to be mcD's best (truly positive) reference if any organizational ever asked so maybe let's go stat chase right now and create a win-win outcome for all parties.

 

[ashley]

Frank Reich and the Bills fecking OWN Bill Belichick.

You might try looking up the record Bill has against the Bills and Reich before you start trolling.