Game Day Thread Official Post Game Thread- Bills beat the Pats

[RobertWeathers]

Then the adjustment is to sit the player and then cut the player in the off season and take the salary cap hit.

Unfortunately I'm not sure the staff is all that willing to walk away from mistakes.

We saw Harry ask for a trade in the off season and make himself a distraction, which usually gets a player a ticket out of town.

Instead we see him on the field a lot this season without playing at a level IMO to earn that time on the field.

It must be upsetting for players like Meyers and Bourne to see Harry get so many chances without earning them.

I don't think Meyers and Bourne have any problems w Harry playing.

Nor do I think this team has a problem walking away from unproductive players who aren't earning their contracts.

 

[Rob0729]

People keep on talking about all the money the Pats spent this offseason, but people forget how incredibly untalented last year's roster truly was. Even with the big money spend in the offseason and hitting it big on the draft, it didn't fix all the problems.

I think overall, the Pats were successful in free agency. The simple fact is you do not hit on all of your free agent acquisitions. In fact, many teams bust big time on their biggest acquisitions.

I think that Judon, Bourne, Henry, Karras, and Mills were successful acquisitions. Agholor was mixed. Godchaux has been a disappointment. Brown has been solid when healthy. Smith has been a bust thus far.

 

[TomPatriot]

Why would anyone not count the quote unquote Covid Year? Let me guess, it’s because of the fake narrative everyone started throwing around mid season when we sucked that this was meant as a throwaway year despite the earlier offseason narrative being that Bill and the Pats would have an advantage over other teams during an unpredictable year? After the Seattle game people including ME said to extend Cam ffs.

The Pats had a disproportionate number of players who opted out.

 

[Bill Lee]

Seems to me negativity bias is controlling your thoughts. The D did, in fact, get a stop yesterday.

The context was "if the defense had managed to get one goddamn stop on that late fourth-quarter drive by the Bills "... One goddamn stop wasn't going to be enough given the way the game was going. At best one goddamn stop would have lead to one score that needed to be a TD since we were down six and then another defensive stand. Basically everything we'd seen for the bulk of the game would have needed to be reversed late in the game. Not impossible, but also not probable either.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

says the guy (girl) who brought up Brady in a patriots thread...

Why would you say girl? Sounds sexist…

 

[Bill Lee]

Nor do I think this team has a problem walking away from unproductive players who aren't earning their contracts.

I hope you're right. Keeping Harry after him asking for a trade and him not showing much improvement over last year is proving to be a bad move, IMO. I'm sure it's not easy to admit mistakes and it's easier to retain hope that he'll get better, yet as the old saying goes, hope is not a plan.

 

[Rob0729]

Seems to me negativity bias is controlling your thoughts. The D did, in fact, get a stop yesterday.

Did they really get a stop or did Emmanuel Sanders give the Pats a gift?

 

[RIpats88]

People keep on talking about all the money the Pats spent this offseason, but people forget how incredibly untalented last year's roster truly was. Even with the big money spend in the offseason and hitting it big on the draft, it didn't fix all the problems.

I think overall, the Pats were successful in free agency. The simple fact is you do not hit on all of your free agent acquisitions. In fact, many teams bust big time on their biggest acquisitions.

I think that Judon, Bourne, Henry, Karras, and Mills were successful acquisitions. Agholor was mixed. Godchaux has been a disappointment. Brown has been solid when healthy. Smith has been a bust thus far.

I think another good draft or two and we are in business.

We filled alot of holes in free agency and the last two drafts.

 

[upstater1]

This has always been the issue IMO post Brady. Would Bill change his philosophy and surround our young QB with legit talent. Brady was the best at making hay with mediocre skill guys but he is the unicorn as we all know. There is no arguing that Bill spent like crazy on the position in FA BUT what did we really get that moved the needle? A bunch of 2s and 3s that we drastically overpaid for which we had to as we decided the best way back to contention was to spend the $165 mil the first week of FA. I don't disagree at all with that plan BTW as it has produced a winning season and potentially a playoff birth but if we are thinking long term and what Mac needs and this offense to truly contend with the elite teams which are really elite offenses led by elite QBs than Bill has to spend on dynamic play makers so this team can score in bunches and have a wider margin for error too.

It is also worth pointing out that after the offense had its worst production last year since 2000 in large part due to its awful offense led by a washed Newton, Bill spent the most money in FA on a defensive player (Judon) who is literally a sack specialist and nothing else. I am not sure Bill looks at this offense now and sees the need we all do for some legit #1s anywhere. I think he goes full on in getting LBs and rebuilding the secondary as I believe Jackson is gone - he will get HUGE offers and be gone first week of FA. If Mac is lucky, maybe he looks for a tier 2 slot guy in the vein of a poor's man Edelman.

I can't think of a WR FA signing by any team that has worked out, not since Anquan Boldin (and I may be wrong, but was Boldin traded?)? It really looks like you're not going to find the MAIN guy at WR in the FA market. If a team is letting a WR hit the market, it's because he can't be the MAIN GUY.

You have to draft these guys or give up an arm and a leg to get them (Stephon Diggs).

 

[VectorPrime]

The Pats had a disproportionate number of players who opted out.

First of all Hightower and Chung were no longer game changers as we’ve now seen. If you want to argue Bolden was a big loss than god help you. And besides, this happened in June or so right? We knew about it for the entire abbreviated training camp and then going into the actual season and it was never mentioned in terms of dooming the team to be sub .500.

 

[upstater1]

And the award for the whiniest, most-entitled and spoiled fan base goes to...

"This guy sucks!" "That guys sucks more!!!" "Why aren't we getting all-pros for 6 million/year?!?!?!?????"

The Patriots aren't there yet, but they're a lot closer than they were last year and a lot closer than I expected them to be at this point.

The last 2 games have been playoff intensity - which means teams getting away with crap that would normally get called, like headhunting in Indy, holding on the OL, etc. It's up-scale, WAY more intense football than anything the Pats QB has seen. So he's on a script, whereas Josh Allen, who is legitimately one of the best in the league right now, is seeing things and exploiting them. This is also why Mac Jones is going to cost a few million the next few years, while Allen starts hitting 40-50m against the cap in 2023 for the next 7 years.

Kind of how it works...

The areas of needed improvement for next year are becoming clear - we can talk about those after the season, which isn't over...in January.

Three things have buried the Pats in the last couple of games:

1. Jones is seeing things he's never seen before. Defenses have caught up to the limited game plan the Pats are running. 2 weeks in a row, he's been fooled by an undercutting LB to the cost of a pick. To make it worse, without the much-,aligned (by many on this board) Agholor, the box got smaller yesterday, and even more so with Bourne getting no reps all week and little play time yesterday. Surprised as hell that they weren't using two TEs and getting them the ball.

2. When I watch December/January games, I like to watch what happens when a back or slot guy catches the ball about 4 yards over the line of scrimmage. When Meyers or Bolden caught one, they got their head removed yesterday and the week before, whereas the Buffalo guys caught and ran about 3 yard before being hauled down over and over again. That tells you who's setting the tone and who's laying back.

3. I'm sorrying, but the refereeing these last few weeks, league-wide has been garbage. Wholly inconsistent and with all the calls going in certain directions. I'm not just talking Pats here. Not at all. It's been horrific - and the absolutely ridiculous answers to the sideline hit and Andrews' unsportsmanlike should tell you all you need to know about that crap-show yesterday.

I'm optimistic that the Pats will climb back in soon enough.

The rookie QB is promising. It takes time. Every player says the game "slows down" in year two. This isn't Mac Jones team. Not yet. He's going to have to make it his team.

And for those saying "trade this guy!" trade that guy!" "get DeVonte Adams!!!!!!" - quit listening to Felger. Cap ain't crap, sorry. The Pats will spend next year truly figuring out which pieces fit, and the year after that loading up with some new shiny pieces. They've built the core this year, have some older guys who will be moving on and need to fill in the next level through draft, FA as Mac develops.

I agree with all your points. I only wonder why Jonnu Smith and Wynn keep getting called for barely holds on big plays while everyone else is getting away with murder.

 

[VectorPrime]

Did they really get a stop or did Emmanuel Sanders give the Pats a gift?

The only flukey drops that matter after a loss are the ones made by Patriots players. The two touchdown drops by the Bills on two separate drives where the receivers in the end zone had no defender within 10 yards of them is just good defense.

 

[Bill Lee]

People keep on talking about all the money the Pats spent this offseason, but people forget how incredibly untalented last year's roster truly was. Even with the big money spend in the offseason and hitting it big on the draft, it didn't fix all the problems.

I think overall, the Pats were successful in free agency. The simple fact is you do not hit on all of your free agent acquisitions. In fact, many teams bust big time on their biggest acquisitions.

I think that Judon, Bourne, Henry, Karras, and Mills were successful acquisitions. Agholor was mixed. Godchaux has been a disappointment. Brown has been solid when healthy. Smith has been a bust thus far.

The real issue I see is the misses will be hard to cut this off season given the way the contracts are structured mostly as two year deals, and other key vets are going to need replacing like DMac and HT. HT's voidable years are gonna hit the cap with a thud.

Chances are we're going to be a very similar team next year, improving yet still on the cusp between division winner and wild card team. Take a bunch of salary cap hits and hope we're in a good position for Mac's 3rd year. By year 4 he'll be eligible for a new deal and if history is a guide we're gonna want to lock him in as early as possible. I know we can extend him to five years, but that usually means you end up worse in the long run. IMO we have to be ready to make a move in Mac's Y3 or Y4 and hope by then BUF is losing talent to FA and not drafting well due to a better record so worse draft position.

As others have pointed out, it may be best if we end up with a WC spot, we'll probably end up with a better playoff match and better draft position next year. Yet I'm also not one to say let's tank. It's important for team morale to keep fighting for each and every game, IMO.

 

[upstater1]

No. But out of character for Bill. We let Jones walk because he was a sack specialist who BTW can set the edge and has the most tackles for losses too but I digress. In an off-season where the offense needed the most work, Bill spent the most money on Judon which IMO kind of speaks to his team building approach. I say this to help temper expectations that Bill will go out and sign a bunch of #1 skill guys.

It's a miracle Jones is still in the league given what happened and the family history. I never would have invested that much money in him after that. Good for Chandler but RED ALERT.

 

[50-yard-line]

I know it’s going to seem like I’m being a smart ass here, but I’m not. All 3 Ints by those LB’ers were some pretty athletic plays. That’s not something he has practiced against very often. I’ve gotta remind myself that he is still learning what he can get away with and what he can’t. He looks like he is processing a lot out there still. Also, I really think guys aren’t getting where they’re supposed to be out there. Some of those throws that have happened lately look like he is throwing to a specific spot with anticipation and no one is getting there. I could be trippin’. I don’t know, just looks like the whole passing game is out of whack. I’m a Mac Maniac. I Believe the young man is going to be really good in this league.
I’m more worried that all this money that was spent and guys can’t get consistent separation. We’re stuck with Algholor and Smith for another year. Hopefully more time in the system will get them where we need them. With a running game as good as ours is, there’s no excuse for guys not being able to beat man coverage and get open on quick plays, or get more chunk yardage off PA.

Sorry, I’m ranting. Still frustrated.

You're not being a smart-ass at all, and I don't disagree with most of what you've said.

Agholor is a #2 receiver, playing like a #2 receiver and paid like a #2 receiver. So yes, if Ice-Ice is right and they get a powerful impact WR (won't be a TE), Agholor is going to be much better next to him. Add a Diggs to the Pats and suddenly it opens up for everyone else. Agholor's job right now is to do that, and he's doing it better than most here would credit. Same is true with the secondary - a healthy 2019 Gilmore right now changes that entire group from very good to unreal.

Jonnu Smith is here for 4 years. Get used to it. He's a much better player than we've seen this year - which has a lot to do with how they're using him/not using him.

And Jones right now is lost out there in the playoff intensity, as expected. He also looks off on his mechanics - what's up with that knee?

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

To me that's been the biggest surprise of the offseason....we haven't found a way to get Jonnu more involved in the passing game and to find a better way to utilize his talent.

yep, probably not gonna win many traditional routes. But he seems like the type of guy josh could have a field day with, especially facing the more aggressive defenses. Holding out hope that he has a breakthrough at some point but Big disappointment thus far.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I hope you're right. Keeping Harry after him asking for a trade and him not showing much improvement over last year is proving to be a bad move, IMO. I'm sure it's not easy to admit mistakes and it's easier to retain hope that he'll get better, yet as the old saying goes, hope is not a plan.

re: Harry. I think in the end they felt they could get WR4 production out of him and he wouldn't become a locker-room issue. I think they've been right on both accounts.

I do agree they have been playing him way too much.

I don't expect he'll be here next year.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Why would you say girl? Sounds sexist…

Nice try. The mods aren't going to ban me.

 

[Rob0729]

The real issue I see is the misses will be hard to cut this off season given the way the contracts are structured mostly as two year deals, and other key vets are going to need replacing like DMac and HT. HT's voidable years are gonna hit the cap with a thud.

Chances are we're going to be a very similar team next year, improving yet still on the cusp between division winner and wild card team. Take a bunch of salary cap hits and hope we're in a good position for Mac's 3rd year. By year 4 he'll be eligible for a new deal and if history is a guide we're gonna want to lock him in as early as possible. I know we can extend him to five years, but that usually means you end up worse in the long run. IMO we have to be ready to make a move in Mac's Y3 or Y4 and hope by then BUF is losing talent to FA and not drafting well due to a better record so worse draft position.

As others have pointed out, it may be best if we end up with a WC spot, we'll probably end up with a better playoff match and better draft position next year. Yet I'm also not one to say let's tank. It's important for team morale to keep fighting for each and every game, IMO.

Agholor and Godchaux are easy to cut if the Pats choose to. Smith is here for at least next year no matter what. But maybe he turns it around in his second year.

But next year before the Pats even make a move, they will get back Henry Anderson (who I think was going to be a big part of the d-line) and Jonathan Jones. Both those guys will improve the defense without making a roster move. Some of the free agents for 2022 on this team could be addition by subtraction. Hightower seems pretty much done and replacing him with even an average, but faster LB might be an improvement at this point. Hopefully after a red shirt recovery year, McGrone and Bledsoe become contributors to the defense. And maybe Perkins does a second year jump like Duggar did this year.

It is way too early to tell what next year will bring.

 

[Bill Lee]

re: Harry. I think in the end they felt they could get WR4 production out of him and he wouldn't become a locker-room issue. I think they've been right on both accounts.

I do agree they have been playing him way too much.

I don't expect he'll be here next year.

I used to think of us as the "cut him one year too early" team, ready and willing to move on from mistakes and give other players the opportunity to show what they have.

We only moved on from Sony when it was clear we had two different guys who were younger and likely to move past him on the depth chart. Maybe that's the criteria these days.

Seems to me we're just a much more cautious outfit than in the old days.