Dugger possible COVID positive or contact (edit: added to Reserve/Covid list)

[Mark.]

Maybe but correlation is not causation, it’s like Autism and MMR vaccines - there is no link (no matter how many times anti-vaxxers cite a discredited report). But even if true, the incidence of serious adverse events linked to any vaccine is tremendously low.

Can bad things happen and are they tragic? Certainly, but the data from the hundreds of millions of doses delivered does not support that death from the Covid vaccine is of statistical significance. If it did, personal injury ads related to the vaccine would be running nationwide night and day on tv.

Not true. The vax manufacturers can't be sued.

 

[Fuzz]

A coroner wouldn’t make that determination, they’ll go with something like cardiac impairment or acute liver failure, etc. The FDA will investigate and sift through all the medical records and see if there is causation linked to the vaccine.

Yes, exactly. But that information is key to the investigation.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2021-01/06-COVID-Shimabukuro.pdf

Processing and follow-up on reports of death to VAERS
▪ Upon receipt or notification of a reported death after COVID-19 vaccine,* the VAERS contractor:
– Expedites processing of the report (processed the day of report)
– Contacts the reporter for additional information (medical records, death
certificate, autopsy report, etc.)
– Notifies state Vaccine Safety Coordinator (VSC) of the death and provides copy of the initial report to the VSC via Epi-X
▪ Physicians in the CDC’s Immunization Safety Office and at FDA review all reports of death following COVID-19 vaccination as soon as notified in the daily VAERS priority report and make an assessment if any immediate action is necessary
▪ Attempts (multiple if necessary) are made to obtain death certificates and autopsy reports, when an autopsy is conducted, to ascertain cause of death

 

[Patsgofor4]

Just to add here, I know of 2 people personally who have died from the vaccine. This is not nearly as simple as you make it to be.

Sure you do.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Just to add here, I know of 2 people personally who have died from the vaccine. This is not nearly as simple as you make it to be.

I know the people. Their families are suing the company for forcing them to get it or else lose their job.

The news is not really covering anything negative related to the vaccine. There are a ton of vaccine injury lawsuits currently.

They were dead within a week of receiving the second shot. It was very ugly. The company has been doing grief counseling for the financial group where they worked but the lawsuits are coming

Welp, I don't know the people... I guess I sort of "know" you on a football site. So one never wants to be a **** and say "you are so full of ****" when it would be so douchey if you DID make it up -- or rather if they did, since this is second-hand to you, third-hand to me.

It's possible that a vaccine DID make them sick. I remember in Pfizer's large-scale testing, 2 people died who were given the vaccine out of 144,000, and 4 people who were given the placebo died. In neither case was causality established, but they did die.

So with 6 people having died out of 144,000, and with hundreds of millions of shots out there now, there is plenty of room for very rare cases of deaths. The lifesaving effect of vaccines is self-evident, as you need only look at the vaccinated/unvaccinated status of the (at least) tens of thousands, and (I believe) hundreds of thousands who have died since vaccinated status became common.

But keep us up to date on the cases - I'd love to see the causality established. I mean, all real data is data, even if it's "inconvenient."

If people can't compute "OMG, I could die if I take this" and weigh it against "You're tens of thousands times more likely to die if you do nothing," and make a rational decision... these type of cases could be a huge setback for the country.

Truth? I don't think you really know people who died of vaccines. But I do think that you believe that. That said, it's my opinion based on the fact that this is so politicized, such a claim is so convenient on one side of the political divide, and that when one's side needs for the hoofbeats to be zebras really really hard, you don't hear hoofbeats and think horses. With "you" meaning "one."

That said, If you think about it, such cases are out there -- those who died within a week of taking the vaccines -- and messaging around such cases will be really important, especially because in really rare cases, they might actually find a case of causality.

I remember when the whole rightosphere lost its collective mind when people started tweeting "a zillion people have died after getting vaccinated" memes, and the subsequent frustration when nobody believed that correlation was identical to causation... just because that was an important tenet of their own uncritical world-view.

Imagine the freakout when a confirmed causal case comes to light. Like I said, I don't think it's one of the people you know, but hey maybe it is.

It's really important that the sane people have good, easy-to-grasp explanations, because if people don't "get it," the damage could go beyond the echo chamber. If the already unacceptably large antivax group grows, we could accelerate an already bad situation.

PS, whatever "side" you've been on, since Omicron show some signs of being able to supplant Delta, can I get a group prayer for Omicron to be less virulent? Can we all at least hope for that?

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I'm getting my booster jab 12/16.

I even get a lollipop afterwards....

Only very special people get a lollipop. I wish you were my friend.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

My belief is that we'll force Allen to stay in the pocket and play the short game, make him dink and dunk, so we'll keep the Bills O in front of us and let them kill us that way- but not too much. It would be good to have Dugger on Knox so we can focus mostly on taking Beasley away.

You have to take Diggs away before Beasley. It is impossible to take everyone away. With Allen scrambling I am sure we will play a lot of zone, and I think Knox is not the highest priority. If Knox gets 3 to 5 passes, so be it. There are worse things.

 

[bresna]

Yet we now know that contrary to the narrative that the vaxxed as just as likely to transmit the virus as the unvaxxed and far more likely than those with natural immunity. Are the elderly with multiple comorbidities still the preponderance of those dying?

Whyy are healthcare workers, Your fellow frontline workers losing jobs rather than getting vaxxed you insight would be interesting.

When will patsfan13 show up here: sorryantivaxxer.com | A repository of stories of anti-vaxxers who died or came close to dying of COVID.

 

[PP2]

You have to take Diggs away before Beasley. It is impossible to take everyone away. With Allen scrambling I am sure we will play a lot of zone, and I think Knox is not the highest priority. If Knox gets 3 to 5 passes, so be it. There are worse things.

Yes, you're right. I forgot Diggs killed us in the last game.

 

[n6249c]

A coroner wouldn’t make that determination, they’ll go with something like cardiac impairment or acute liver failure, etc. The FDA will investigate and sift through all the medical records and see if there is causation linked to the vaccine.

But let’s not wait and just declare causation without bothering to investigate, eh?

 

[catent]

Despite you covering your eyes and pretending the truth doesn’t exist, the health care worker shortage is real and extensive. New York is short thousands of nurses and this is despite a large contingent of traveling nurses brought in at excessive pay from other states.
Life and death surgeries are being postponed and having scheduling nightmares solely because of a nurse shortage. That is a fact I personally observed. It’s real. Calling it a conspiracy theory is ignorant and misinformed, but more likely just agenda based.

To provide a bit more detail here: Yes, there is a shortage of healthcare workers; this was the case before COVID and was going to be an ongoing issue regardless of whether COVID occurred or not. Tunescribe did not deny that fact generally but he suggested that isn't in large part due to vaccine mandates. Certainly in some cases that shortage has been further strained by vaccine mandates, but the overall percentage of healthcare workers refusing a vaccine (and the subsequent impact on the existing shortage of workers) is relatively low/small in impact.

The relevant question is: what percentage of life/death surgeries are being postponed because a healthcare worker refused a COVID vaccine? I don't know what that exact number is and I doubt many do (other than statisticians whose job it is to analyze these things).

Tying in the conspiracy remark to the healthcare worker shortage seems unfair, since those remarks came in different contexts. Tunescribe's spouse works in healthcare so he's better versed in all of this than I am, but I didn't take his post to mean that he's claiming the healthcare worker shortage is a conspiracy -- I think he was referring to the many other elements of PF13's posts which are chalk-full of factually wrong information and claims.

 

[Ring 6]

To provide a bit more detail here: Yes, there is a shortage of healthcare workers; this was the case before COVID and was going to be an ongoing issue regardless of whether COVID occurred or not. Tunescribe did not deny that fact generally but he suggested that isn't in large part due to vaccine mandates. Certainly in some cases that shortage has been further strained by vaccine mandates, but the overall percentage of healthcare workers refusing a vaccine (and the subsequent impact on the existing shortage of workers) is relatively low/small in impact.

The relevant question is: what percentage of life/death surgeries are being postponed because a healthcare worker refused a COVID vaccine? I don't know what that exact number is and I doubt many do (other than statisticians whose job it is to analyze these things).

Tying in the conspiracy remark to the healthcare worker shortage seems unfair, since those remarks came in different contexts. Tunescribe's spouse works in healthcare so he's better versed in all of this than I am, but I didn't take his post to mean that he's claiming the healthcare worker shortage is a conspiracy -- I think he was referring to the many other elements of PF13's posts which are chalk-full of factually wrong information and claims.

You are speculating. I am talking about a real actual situation. Someone exposed to the issues of the health care shortage and spoke to numerous health care workers about it, has just as much insight to the issue as a health care workers spouse.
Mandating the firing of health care workers who fought on the front lines over a vaccination has absolutely created negative fallout. The problem you seem to have is that you refuse to acknowledge there are consequences if you like the idea. Speculating that you don’t think there are in the face of an actual occurrence just makes you look like a closed minded defender of what you support.

 

[Ring 6]

To provide a bit more detail here: Yes, there is a shortage of healthcare workers; this was the case before COVID and was going to be an ongoing issue regardless of whether COVID occurred or not. Tunescribe did not deny that fact generally but he suggested that isn't in large part due to vaccine mandates. Certainly in some cases that shortage has been further strained by vaccine mandates, but the overall percentage of healthcare workers refusing a vaccine (and the subsequent impact on the existing shortage of workers) is relatively low/small in impact.

The relevant question is: what percentage of life/death surgeries are being postponed because a healthcare worker refused a COVID vaccine? I don't know what that exact number is and I doubt many do (other than statisticians whose job it is to analyze these things).

Tying in the conspiracy remark to the healthcare worker shortage seems unfair, since those remarks came in different contexts. Tunescribe's spouse works in healthcare so he's better versed in all of this than I am, but I didn't take his post to mean that he's claiming the healthcare worker shortage is a conspiracy -- I think he was referring to the many other elements of PF13's posts which are chalk-full of factually wrong information and claims.

In New York it was 34,000. 3.5% of health care workers.

NY COVID-19 vaccine mandate reduced health care workforce by 3%. Here's the biggest impact

About 34,000 health workers in NY lost jobs, or went on furlough and unpaid leave, due to the COVID-19 vaccine mandate. See the breakdown by industry.

www.lohud.com

 

[catent]

Just to add here, I know of 2 people personally who have died from the vaccine. This is not nearly as simple as you make it to be.

Without giving away personal information, do you mind sharing the details around their deaths and what the cause was determined to be?

The odds of someone dying shortly after receiving a COVID vaccine are extremely low to begin with. The odds someone would know two people who died from a COVID vaccine are extraordinarily low. It's within the realm of possibility, but I can't but wonder if there were other factors at play. Dying after receiving a vaccine and dying due to a vaccine are two very different things.

More than 459 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through November 29, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 10,128 reports of death (0.0022%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine.

(FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem.)

COVID-19 Vaccination

COVID-19 vaccines protect against COVID-19. Get safety info and more.

www.cdc.gov

 

[catent]

.

 

[catent]

At any rate, I realize this is not the thread to be having a discussion about COVID outside of a football context, so I'll try to cut-out the COVID-related posts here.

I'm always inclined towards the, "I wouldn't have posted if they didn't first" line of thinking, but I get that reasoning is faulty and doesn't hold up. I poured gas on the bonfire because he poured alcohol on it first ... doesn't work us towards the goal of putting out the fire.

 

[patsfan13]

When will patsfan13 show up here: sorryantivaxxer.com | A repository of stories of anti-vaxxers who died or came close to dying of COVID.

Wow what a sewer that site is, and the commenters, never seen that many hateful people in one place.

 

[Ring 6]

At any rate, I realize this is not the thread to be having a discussion about COVID outside of a football context, so I'll try to cut-out the COVID-related posts here.

I'm always inclined towards the, "I wouldn't have posted if they didn't first" line of thinking, but I get that reasoning is faulty and doesn't hold up. I poured gas on the bonfire because he poured alcohol on it first ... doesn't work us towards the goal of putting out the fire.

We both know that’s not what happened.
A poster posted speculation.
I responded with real actual instances of fact that refute it.
You jumped in and posted “I don’t think” and “I don’t know” and the other guys wife is a health care worker in order to try to argue against my actual experience.
You posted because your safety zone of compliant trust the government beliefs were challenged. As expected you failed, so the “I’m a good guy who got drawn in” mea culpa is as phony as it is self serving.
But it appears you are exiting the conversation, so have a nice night.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

At any rate, I realize this is not the thread to be having a discussion about COVID outside of a football context, so I'll try to cut-out the COVID-related posts here.

I'm always inclined towards the, "I wouldn't have posted if they didn't first" line of thinking, but I get that reasoning is faulty and doesn't hold up. I poured gas on the bonfire because he poured alcohol on it first ... doesn't work us towards the goal of putting out the fire.

You're a better man than I, cutting it short

On the healthcare front, everybody's anecdote is different (surprise, surprise). I am facebook friends/longtime bbs friends with a doc who has done a great job explaining what the day is like, with idiots shouting at him as he TRIES to do his job, trying to scream about their rights when he just asks if they're vaccinated but they don't have the breath to scream, so they just babble with screamy faces... and families screaming at him that there's no such thing as COVID while he's trying to treat their dying loved one for COVID... and so on. Then my wife's old ER friends -- in Indiana, mind you -- include all these "Trumpy nurses" who frankly scare me. Weird world.

 

[Hyped]

I'm getting my booster jab 12/16.

I even get a lollipop afterwards....

Got my booster a couple of days ago and no lollipop!!!

Goddamn Patriot haters be conspiring against me.....

 

[Patsgofor4]

Without giving away personal information, do you mind sharing the details around their deaths and what the cause was determined to be?

The odds of someone dying shortly after receiving a COVID vaccine are extremely low to begin with. The odds someone would know two people who died from a COVID vaccine are extraordinarily low. Certainly possible, but I can't but wonder if there were other factors which is why I ask.

COVID-19 Vaccination

COVID-19 vaccines protect against COVID-19. Get safety info and more.

www.cdc.gov

And the vast majority of the people who died after receiving the vaccine (which is different than definitively dying because of the vaccine, as you and others have pointed out) were elderly or in the high risk category because of multiple medical comorbidities (obesity, chronic heart and/or lung disease, chronic kidney disease, immunosuppression, among others).