Content Post Idle Thoughts: The "why do I feel so bad about a 23 pt. victory" edition.

[Wozzy]

I agree. Everybody was up in arms when Derrick Henry ran for close to 200 in the playoff loss. Our offense only had to match with 14 points to win and they couldn't do it. I don't know in either game if that was BB's plan to play pass at expense of the run but we won yesterday and should have won that one also.

That 2019 team only needed to score a field goal in the entire second half to win... that was painful to watch.

 

[Wozzy]

Aside from Lewan-Saffold on the Left side, the rest of their OL isn't/wasn't very good right now... No excuse for the gashing the defense suffered on the ground, especially when considering that all the Titties had going for them on offense yesterday was their running game... and the defense Still couldn't stop them.

This is easily some of the worst analysis of one of the best O-Line's in football I have read this year. I mean just a horrid take.

The Titans receiving weapons are bad because Brown and Julio are out and their TE's are no good now that Jonnu is gone, but both RB's are decent and their O-Line is massive and great.

The Pats conceded the run because opponents can't win that way assuming your team doesn't turn it over and can score. It's as simple as looking at the time of possession. The Pats have the DT's and LB'er's to stop the run, they prioritized the pass. And no, they didn't allow a single fluke draw play by Hilliard on purpose, they'd prefer not to allow bulk plays like that... but it was a fluke play where they got caught looking in dime defense.

They tally wins and losses based on points, not yards.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

If you look at how far back Bentley lined up on the long fumble run, you can see the scheming that led to it. Vrabel did well anticipating the defense the Pats would be in. He just couldn't figure out how to attack it in a consistent manner that led to TD's. Game to Vrabel, set and match to Belichick.

I guess. In truth, WTF do I know.

It's not hard to scheme how to beat Bentley or Godchaux

 

[captain stone]

They allowed 13 points, 7 on a fluke play and only 2 drives with more than 2 first downs.
That is an excellent defensive result.

I was referring to the run defense in particular, not to the overall defense in general.

That play was a 3rd and 4 from their own 32 with 37 seconds left and I think no time outs left. Running was a give up so of course defense was playing the pass. Fluke play.

Just like the fluke play at the end of the first half of SB 49? That was a bad alignment with bad anticipation, plain & simple.

 

[captain stone]

Disagree on the Bills being the best team they will have faced so far. Both Dallas and Tampa are better than the Bills.

Dall-ass is Not > Barfalo; not by a dam sight.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I was waiting breathlessly for this thread for Ken to explain why the pats couldn't stop the tits running game. Its seems even he was at a loss.

A few things ...

Tennessee was committed and fired up for this game. Most teams have pride and heart. Especially top tier teams and Tennessee has been knocking on the door for a while now. They definitely have a ton of attitude about them, coached by Mike. They won't lay down despite circumstances. Sometimes you know teams are going to give you they're best. And under different circumstances too. They could be dealing with crazy injuries like the Titans and have their back against the wall. Sometimes that's the most dangerous animal, a wounded one.
They wanted to show they are more than Henry when it comes to running the ball.

This game was all about their OL, WR, TE & FB blocking - showing off what they can do despite not having the big names. Their two backs ran it 31 times for 240 yards. They put a lot on the OL & secondary blockers and they all responded. They heard all the "King Henry" talk and what not. And at least last week took it personal. Their OL is very talented and does a lot of things well. Stretch - outside, power - duo, inside zone. Talented, versatile and physical. They showed up the other day.

Their interior stood out to me. Both working the los and second level. They took us out the play or reset the line but also made several nice blocks in space 2nd and 3rd level.
When they attacked us on stretch plays, they did a good job sealing off our big boys nicely inside. Turning them around and just walling them off. Pullers did a good job locating and hitting their targets in space.

WR's, TE & FB were all very good too. I'm sure they were all great but all those guys stood out. They took out our edges (Judon/KVN) at times with WR/TE and really let their guys get in space too easy. We couldn't get off our blocks up front, turned around or just got washed out the play. That was a big issue all game. We couldn't penetrate or reset the line.

The big run at the end of the half was us caught with bad personal on the field. Barmore tried jumping the snap and got washed out the play. We had Judon and Wise on the edge. Wise was up field in a second and out the play. Their guards took out HT & KVN and the back had an easy read. As we had a light box. Phillips kind of over shot the play and Dugger wasn't in position.

They're a good running team and took it personal, needing a win after the week before. Exploited us in some ways with numbers, in the running game for example and were just more physical up front. Both their lines came to play.

 

[PF_SU]

That 2019 team only needed to score a field goal in the entire second half to win... that was painful to watch.

Yes and after gashing the Patriots in the first half Henry, outside of a single long clock-chewing drive (that still ended with punt), was mostly shut down in the second half.

The Titans' drives in the second half of that game looked like this:
6 plays - 16 yards - 3:37 of time - punt
4 plays - 14 yards - 2:31 of time - punt
5 plays - 12 yards - 2:38 of time - interception
10 plays - 39 yards - 8:01 of time - punt
7 plays - 28 yards - 2:55 of time - punt

Meanwhile the furthest the offense went in the second half was the Titans' 47, even after getting set-up at their own 41 following the interception of Tannehill.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

This is easily some of the worst analysis of one of the best O-Line's in football I have read this year. I mean just a horrid take.

The Titans receiving weapons are bad because Brown and Julio are out and their TE's are no good now that Jonnu is gone, but both RB's are decent and their O-Line is massive and great.

The Pats conceded the run because opponents can't win that way assuming your team doesn't turn it over and can score. It's as simple as looking at the time of possession. The Pats have the DT's and LB'er's to stop the run, they prioritized the pass. And no, they didn't allow a single fluke draw play by Hilliard on purpose, they'd prefer not to allow bulk plays like that... but it was a fluke play where they got caught looking in dime defense.

They tally wins and losses based on points, not yards.

Not doubting your take that the Patriots chose to play a ‘non rush D’ game plan, however, is there Patriot defensive groupings stats to backup that take? Extra S, DBs, DLs/LBs usually on dime packages frequently on D plays not needing dime packages?

One other take on the run D. Yes it gave up too much, for sure, but two runs accounted for about 100 yards. The big one I thought there was a critical holding call missed, IMHO. Outside of those two runs, I’m guessing the patriots avg rush yards per play given up is probably around 4. That’s not great given the number of rushing attempts but in the context of allowing 75 to 80 pass yards? We’ve all seen MUCH worse even in SB years.

 

[1960Pats]

Yes, he looks great and appears to be the real thing.
Yes, the team looks strong and I'm very excited about it.
Yes, they are way ahead of my expectations.
Those are all general statements and I'm on board with them.

They have nothing to do with a dissection of his work yesterday. The tale of the tape shows that the QB didn't have his best game at all yesterday, missing more than the usual number of opportunities and leaving a lot of points on the field in the form of field goals. That's all I'm saying. It has nothing to do with my general enthusiasm about the team.

Mac Jones hasn't been perfect but he's far exceeding expectations for a rookie. And a 70% completion rate is awesome, especially considering that he threw a few longer passes.

 

[1960Pats]

You the man,Ken, BUT...
I don't feel bad at all about the 23pt victory...
....matter of fact I feel pretty damn good!

I also like the fact that they're running the ball more these days. Just the attempt at running the ball helps, even if it isn't as effective, like today.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

A few things ...

Tennessee was committed and fired up for this game. Most teams have pride and heart. Especially top tier teams and Tennessee has been knocking on the door for a while now. They definitely have a ton of attitude about them, coached by Mike. They won't lay down despite circumstances. Sometimes you know teams are going to give you they're best. And under different circumstances too. They could be dealing with crazy injuries like the Titans and have their back against the wall. Sometimes that's the most dangerous animal, a wounded one.
They wanted to show they are more than Henry when it comes to running the ball.

This game was all about their OL, WR, TE & FB blocking - showing off what they can do despite not having the big names. Their two backs ran it 31 times for 240 yards. They put a lot on the OL & secondary blockers and they all responded. They heard all the "King Henry" talk and what not. And at least last week took it personal. Their OL is very talented and does a lot of things well. Stretch - outside, power - duo, inside zone. Talented, versatile and physical. They showed up the other day.

Their interior stood out to me. Both working the los and second level. They took us out the play or reset the line but also made several nice blocks in space 2nd and 3rd level.
When they attacked us on stretch plays, they did a good job sealing off our big boys nicely inside. Turning them around and just walling them off. Pullers did a good job locating and hitting their targets in space.

WR's, TE & FB were all very good too. I'm sure they were all great but all those guys stood out. They took out our edges (Judon/KVN) at times with WR/TE and really let their guys get in space too easy. We couldn't get off our blocks up front, turned around or just got washed out the play. That was a big issue all game. We couldn't penetrate or reset the line.

The big run at the end of the half was us caught with bad personal on the field. Barmore tried jumping the snap and got washed out the play. We had Judon and Wise on the edge. Wise was up field in a second and out the play. Their guards took out HT & KVN and the back had an easy read. As we had a light box. Phillips kind of over shot the play and Dugger wasn't in position.

They're a good running team and took it personal, needing a win after the week before. Exploited us in some ways with numbers, in the running game for example and were just more physical up front. Both their lines came to play.

Adrian Phillips basically came out and said it was all about execution. They knew coming into the game that Tennessee would run the ball and they still couldn't stop them. It might be as simple as that.

 

[50-yard-line]

2013 we allowed 280 to Denver, holding manning to 150 and frustrating him and beating Denver.
This team has been a game plan team for 20 years. They defense each opponent differently and uniquely. The 68 yard TD was a fluke. Tennessee was virtually giving up running in that down/distance clock time and time out situation.
Take that away and you have 200 rush yards 85 pass yards and 6 points. What is wrong with rope a doping a team into not being able to score points?
Ultimately Tennessee had 2 drives all day with more than 2 first downs.

In 2004, they let Edgerin James run wild and beat Manning's Colts. Colts had over 200 yards rushing - looked very much like the game yesterday, other than the 67-yard fluke by Hilliard (almost identical stats other than that run, too).

 

[50-yard-line]

Tennessee is a good team with good coaches, to expect them to lay down and not have been this competitive is folly. The Titans game plan was to utilize the ground game and the Pats were not either prepared or not focused. Vrabel grew up in this system and is a proponent of the next man up philosophy, a BB clone.

I don't think it was. They were using the run to set up the short passing game, and Tannehill was 7-7 early on.

I think the Pats shifted to take that away, and they did.

Whatever complaint anyone might level on the Pats D yesterday, they gave up 13 points (would have been 17 if their kicker didn't choke, sure). And their offense put up 36 against a very good and physical Defense.

 

[Wozzy]

Not doubting your take that the Patriots chose to play a ‘non rush D’ game plan, however, is their Patriot defensive groupings to backup that take?
Extra S, DBs, DLs/LBs usually on dime packages frequently on D plays not needing dime packages?

One other take on the run D. Yes it gave up too much, for sure, but two runs accounted for about 100 yards. The big one I thought there was a critical holding call missed. Outside of those ‘no other way to describe it other than extremely bad’ 2, I’m guessing the patriots avg rush yards per play given up is probably around 4. That’s not great given the number of rushing attempts but in the context of allowing 75 to 80 pass yards? We’ve all seen MUCH worse even in SB years.

Look at Hilliard's one long run... only one DT (Barmore) on the field, other than that it was Wise and a bunch of LB'er's. Also Barmore shoots the gap, the wrong gap but a gap, which assumes they thought it was a pass play. It was 3rd and 3 but there was only 46 seconds on the clock, it was a well blocked draw play.

In short it was a mistake by the defense, either schematically or in simple execution. Hardly indicative of a team with poor run defense. They have plenty of beef and talent at DT, they have good LB'er's.... they can defend the run or pass whenever they need to. BB will get them in the film room and discuss leverage and tackling.

 

[jimnance]

A few things ...

Tennessee was committed and fired up for this game. Most teams have pride and heart. Especially top tier teams and Tennessee has been knocking on the door for a while now. They definitely have a ton of attitude about them, coached by Mike. They won't lay down despite circumstances. Sometimes you know teams are going to give you they're best. And under different circumstances too. They could be dealing with crazy injuries like the Titans and have their back against the wall. Sometimes that's the most dangerous animal, a wounded one.
They wanted to show they are more than Henry when it comes to running the ball.

This game was all about their OL, WR, TE & FB blocking - showing off what they can do despite not having the big names. Their two backs ran it 31 times for 240 yards. They put a lot on the OL & secondary blockers and they all responded. They heard all the "King Henry" talk and what not. And at least last week took it personal. Their OL is very talented and does a lot of things well. Stretch - outside, power - duo, inside zone. Talented, versatile and physical. They showed up the other day.

Their interior stood out to me. Both working the los and second level. They took us out the play or reset the line but also made several nice blocks in space 2nd and 3rd level.
When they attacked us on stretch plays, they did a good job sealing off our big boys nicely inside. Turning them around and just walling them off. Pullers did a good job locating and hitting their targets in space.

WR's, TE & FB were all very good too. I'm sure they were all great but all those guys stood out. They took out our edges (Judon/KVN) at times with WR/TE and really let their guys get in space too easy. We couldn't get off our blocks up front, turned around or just got washed out the play. That was a big issue all game. We couldn't penetrate or reset the line.

The big run at the end of the half was us caught with bad personal on the field. Barmore tried jumping the snap and got washed out the play. We had Judon and Wise on the edge. Wise was up field in a second and out the play. Their guards took out HT & KVN and the back had an easy read. As we had a light box. Phillips kind of over shot the play and Dugger wasn't in position.

They're a good running team and took it personal, needing a win after the week before. Exploited us in some ways with numbers, in the running game for example and were just more physical up front. Both their lines came to play.

Agree 100%. Titans are a physical team like the Patriots and both have pride. Another contributing factor imo was BB focusing on stopping Tannehill after he started 8/8 and conceding the Titans the run game somewhat. Dont think he gameplanned that way think it was ingame adjustment. Maybe he knew Pats have great RZ defense and could stop them there. But like you said the big run at end of half was a Pats' f'up- both coaching and execution. Thank God for JC Jackson. When Tenn. gets healthier,they'll be a lot tougher. Good chance these teams meet again in playoffs

 

[50-yard-line]

What's worse is that BB pushed all his chips onto the table this season. Not only did he sign more players than anyone had a right to expect, but he signed them to deals that will accelerate next season. So there won't be the space for any kind of big signing to the DL in the off-season, given other needs (cornerback, tackle, safety).

I was really surprised that BB was spending like that for a team that, at the time, didn't have a quarterback. Now they've got one who is doing far better than any of us had a right to expect so this "re-building year" has suddenly become a competitive year. I'm thankful for that. Even if they go down in flames against the Bills and the Colts (I hope they don't, of course) it will have been a good year.

The Pats have plenty of cap space next year (30 million'ish), and not many holes to fill. They'll probably re-sign Brown on a contract with big game-day bonuses (NLTBE). They also have plenty of room by restructuring a bunch of contracts, since they have a lot of players signed and a ton of money in 2023.

What BB didn't do was phony up any of the signings to cripple the team in the future. His spending spree bought 45-50 years of service from the players signed. Next year, they can possibly extend Van Noy, Agholor, and Godchaux to lower cap, or, if not, they're all gone in 2023.

I expect them to offer Meyers a Bourne-like deal. They might lose him. Jackson is probably gone, although I hope not. I think they find a way to keep Phillips. I hope McCourty sticks around, which means his VOID years won't accelerate. Hightower is a wild card. No idea what his plans are or his market would be. hoping McGrone will pan out, and Perkins, too.

Godchaux is playing to value of his contract, but he's not the true NT they might need, I agree. Those guys are rare these days. They haven't invested a lot of resources into the interior DL. I think they're drafting a DT high (and like another poster, I hope it's Jordan Davis, though I'm not sure he'll be around by the time they pick).

 

[Bill Lee]

Look at Hilliard's one long run... only one DT (Barmore) on the field, other than that it was Wise and a bunch of LB'er's. Also Barmore shoots the gap, the wrong gap but a gap, which assumes they thought it was a pass play. It was 3rd and 3 but there was only 46 seconds on the clock, it was a well blocked draw play.

In short it was a mistake by the defense, either schematically or in simple execution. Hardly indicative of a team with poor run defense. They have plenty of beef and talent at DT, they have good LB'er's.... they can defend the pass whenever they need to. BB will get them in the film room and discuss leverage and tackling.

Thanks for finding the video. I found it useful to play it at 0.25 speed, you can really see the play unfold that way.

I agree with all you wrote, plus we should add the two TEN linemen in the middle simply won the point of attack, they are more than two yards down the field when Hilliard hits the small gap they made for him to run through. Also Hilliard shows he has great speed, he just bursts through the gap faster than our players can react and shed their blocks.

Definitely a play we'd like to have back, but stuff happens.

 

[PowerRunRevival]

Adrian Phillips basically came out and said it was all about execution. They knew coming into the game that Tennessee would run the ball and they still couldn't stop them. It might be as simple as that.

The long runs were problematic, but the Pats run defense did stand up in the red zone. A lot of the Pats teams during the past 20 years played bend but don't break defense allowing the opponents to move the ball right up until they got into the end zone. In the end points are what matters, it might upset people to see the other team run the ball from 20 yard line to 20 yard line but the way the defense only let up one touchdown on a long run and no red zone scores.

The execution of the game plan can be seen in giving up 13 points.

To me it seems really unlikely that the Pats give up a similar amount of yards in future games, because they haven't done so in other games this year. In a 20+ point victory the only way the run defense would bother me is if I thought the Pats would give up similar yardage in future games and I just don't see that as being the case.

 

[Joker]

Patsfans.com Axiom #1....No matter what the outcome of any Pats game,eventually "IT'S ALL REAL BAD!!! SKY FALLING@!!!"

 

[50-yard-line]

Look at Hilliard's one long run... only one DT (Barmore) on the field, other than that it was Wise and a bunch of LB'er's. Also Barmore shoots the gap, the wrong gap but a gap, which assumes they thought it was a pass play. It was 3rd and 3 but there was only 46 seconds on the clock, it was a well blocked draw play.

In short it was a mistake by the defense, either schematically or in simple execution. Hardly indicative of a team with poor run defense. They have plenty of beef and talent at DT, they have good LB'er's.... they can defend the pass whenever they need to. BB will get them in the film room and discuss leverage and tackling.

Van Noy was held - OL arm over his left arm, preventing him from slowing Hilliard.

Maybe Hightower, too.

And both Phillips and Dugger were cutting off the left-right lanes. When the two LBs were locked up by the bigger OL, Hilliard had his seam.

Watch the hold on Van Noy, though, as Hilliard breaks through - pretty obvious. Arm is outside Van Noy's shoulder.