OT: Official 2021 Tompa Bay Gronkaneers Thread

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Report: Saints fear Andrus Peat tore his pectoral

Saints left guard Andrus Peat left Monday night's win with an injury and the initial belief is that it is going to keep him out of action for an extended period of time.

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

 

[Deus Irae]

Seattle Passing

C/ATT	YDS	AVG	TD	INT	SACKS	QBR	RTG
12/22	167	7.6	1	0	5-38	26.9	94.3

They really need to change the QB rating. Geno Smith was bad and the reason the hawks lost yesterday's game but had a strong rating of 94.3.

In the 2nd last series, they were in field goal range and gets sacked 11 yards and the 50+ field goal missed. In the last series, incomplete, sack, sack, incomplete. The sacks were the reason Geno lost the game but it doesn't get reflected in the QB ratings.

It's really a garbage measurement that brings up crappy QBs and punishes QBs like Brady who moves within the pocket and losses points for getting rid of the ball to avoid sacks.

If ball is held and 10 yard sack is taken, no points deducted from their rating. Throw the ball away and loss 0 yards, that's a deduction.

???


The Seahawks lost because their kicker missed two makeable FGAs.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Adams and now Lazard.

Green Bay Packers place Allen Lazard on reserve/COVID-19 list

Allen Lazard has joined teammate Davante Adams, the Packers' leading receiver, on the reserve/COVID-19 list heading into Thursday's game against the Cardinals.

www.espn.com

 

[VectorPrime]

Well at least the Packers will get a second loss.

 

[Kargetina]

In honor of Mahomes' season so far, Michael Irvin putting everyone in their place starting at 02:10.

 

[Reubski23]

Hahaha I watched a clip of Max Kellerman’s new show; Keshaun saying it’s all Byron Leftwich hahahaha. I nearly fell off my chair - I’m sure he is doing a good job but it is possibly the worst take I ever seen.

Brady waves off so many plays it’s quite funny

 

[amfootball]

Hahaha I watched a clip of Max Kellerman’s new show; Keshaun saying it’s all Byron Leftwich hahahaha. I nearly fell off my chair - I’m sure he is doing a good job but it is possibly the worst take I ever seen.

Brady waves off so many plays it’s quite funny

I had posted that segment in another thread. It was one of the worst takes ever. Leftwich looks pretty clueless to me with Brady basically calling the shots. Arians has already admitted that it is Brady's offense to run. I am sure Leftwich is a nice guy and helpful but the notion that he is responsible for the Bucs offense is laughable.

 

[venecol]

I had posted that segment in another thread. It was one of the worst takes ever. Leftwich looks pretty clueless to me with Brady basically calling the shots. Arians has already admitted that it is Brady's offense to run. I am sure Leftwich is a nice guy and helpful but the notion that he is responsible for the Bucs offense is laughable.

Curious but what exactly is your basis for saying this, aside from a gut feeling.

 

[Reubski23]

I had posted that segment in another thread. It was one of the worst takes ever. Leftwich looks pretty clueless to me with Brady basically calling the shots. Arians has already admitted that it is Brady's offense to run. I am sure Leftwich is a nice guy and helpful but the notion that he is responsible for the Bucs offense is laughable.

Out of all offensive co-ordinators Brady has had - Leftwich seems the least responsible for the success.

Weiss - Brady was clearly under his tutelage for the first two year he started.

BoB - two tight end sets - was quite an aggressive offensive and outside of 2007 - most of Brady’s highest stat years came during this time.

McDaniels - not always his biggest fan - and passing Red Zone offence has gone backwards in the last several years automatic in 2014-2016 and then 2018 onwards it’s down each year. But no doubt was he innovative, adapted an offense with best fit the weapons Brady had and Brady’s most efficient years 2014-2017 and obviously 2007 came under him. Very clear from all the film they both drove each other to achieve great things.

 

[RicoG]

Mike Evan's moves from 80 to 76 in all time receiving yards with 8762.
With his 3Td he has moved up to 48 all time. He is in a horse race with AJ Green, Hopkins, and D Adam's.

Rank	Player	TD	Years	Tm
48	Raymond Berry+	68	1955-1967	clt
	Mike Evans	68	2014-2021	tam
	A.J. Green	68	2011-2021	2TM
	Art Monk+	68	1980-1995	3TM
	Rod Smith	68	1995-2006	den
53	Cliff Branch	67	1972-1985	rai
	DeAndre Hopkins	67	2013-2021	2TM
	Chad Johnson	67	2001-2011	2TM
	Jimmy Smith	67	1992-2005	2TM
57	Roy Green	66	1979-1992	2TM
	Derrick Mason	66	1997-2011	4TM
	Santana Moss	66	2001-2014	2TM
	Jimmy Orr	66	1958-1970	2TM
61	Davante Adams	65	2014-2021

 

[amfootball]

Curious but what exactly is your basis for saying this, aside from a gut feeling.

Pretty much what @Reubski23 said. Leftwich to me is the least responsible for Brady/Tampa's offensive success. The system is Arians and to the extent that it has changed, has been Brady. Arians has said this. The personnel moves were Brady driven. IMO, Leftwich has been a long for the ride.

 

[venecol]

Pretty much what @Reubski23 said. Leftwich to me is the least responsible for Brady/Tampa's offensive success. The system is Arians and to the extent that it has changed, has been Brady. Arians has said this. The personnel moves were Brady driven. IMO, Leftwich has been a long for the ride.

So basically you don't have any reason, just your opinion.

BA has delegated both play calling and game planning to BL. He's said so. BL comes up with game plan and presents it to BA for his input. BA makes a couple of chicken scratches on it and it's good to go.

Obviously, Brady has input into the game plan working with the OC just like he had in NE. Brady has also influenced some of the plays to conform to his style. BA also said so. BA believes in adapting the play book to his QB strengths while keeping within his overall philosophy. But Brady is not the OC, that's nonsense.

Unless you have facts that support your take, you have to give Byron credit. Your feelings or beliefs don't count.

 

[amfootball]

So basically you don't have any reason, just your opinion.

BA has delegated both play calling and game planning to BL. He's said so. BL comes up with game plan and presents it to BA for his input. BA makes a couple of chicken scratches on it and it's good to go.

Obviously, Brady has input into the game plan working with the OC just like he had in NE. Brady has also influenced some of the plays to conform to his style. BA also said so. BA believes in adapting the play book to his QB strengths while keeping within his overall philosophy. But Brady is not the OC, that's nonsense.

Unless you have facts that support your take, you have to give Byron credit. Your feelings or beliefs don't count.

Not an opinion. I am going by what Arians has said in terms of Brady's input which is volumes more than what he had in NE. Brady said one of his main reasons for going to Tampa was because the offense would be a collaborative approach.

I am not saying Leftwich has not done anything but his impact IMO is minimal compared to Brady's other OCs. The change in offensive philosophy was Brady driven starting after the bye week last year and the personnel moves were also Brady driven.

There is nothing in Leftwich's past coaching endeavors to suggest he is some offensive savant. He just lucked into having the GOAT as his QB.

 

[venecol]

Not an opinion. I am going by what Arians has said in terms of Brady's input which is volumes more than what he had in NE. Brady said one of his main reasons for going to Tampa was because the offense would be a collaborative approach.

I am not saying Leftwich has not done anything but his impact IMO is minimal compared to Brady's other OCs. The change in offensive philosophy was Brady driven starting after the bye week last year and the personnel moves were also Brady driven.

There is nothing in Leftwich's past coaching endeavors to suggest he is some offensive savant. He just lucked into having the GOAT as his QB.

So it is an opinion. No one is talking about BL being a savant. Discussion is about bold in your below quote.

I had posted that segment in another thread. It was one of the worst takes ever. Leftwich looks pretty clueless to me with Brady basically calling the shots. Arians has already admitted that it is Brady's offense to run. I am sure Leftwich is a nice guy and helpful but the notion that he is responsible for the Bucs offense is laughable.

Arians made it clear that he has delegated the offense to Leftwich.

“You know, Tom [Brady] is such a great, great player, but having left that system after 20 years, and ours is lot different how we do things, Byron’s been the middle guy that’s just done all the work,” Arians said. “I mean, people give me way too much credit because I don’t do sh-t, really. He does it all. He calls the plays. I’m really upset he didn’t get a head-coaching interview. . . . Byron didn’t even get a call, and I think people give Tom Brady and Bruce Arians way too much credit and not enough credit for Byron Leftwich.”

Now, clearly he hasn't been a coach very long so there's not a lot to go by. Looking at the 2019 season, TB was #3 in O ypg (#1 in passing ypg) and #4 in ppg, That's pretty damn good if you ask me. I doubt Winston was making the play calls in 2019.

Again, I'm not saying BL is a genius but my question was your basis for the above bolded statement. It's ok if it is just your opinion.

 

[sb1]

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Lol...the comments....

 

[amfootball]

So it is an opinion. No one is talking about BL being a savant. Discussion is about bold in your below quote.



Arians made it clear that he has delegated the offense to Leftwich.

“You know, Tom [Brady] is such a great, great player, but having left that system after 20 years, and ours is lot different how we do things, Byron’s been the middle guy that’s just done all the work,” Arians said. “I mean, people give me way too much credit because I don’t do sh-t, really. He does it all. He calls the plays. I’m really upset he didn’t get a head-coaching interview. . . . Byron didn’t even get a call, and I think people give Tom Brady and Bruce Arians way too much credit and not enough credit for Byron Leftwich.”

Now, clearly he hasn't been a coach very long so there's not a lot to go by. Looking at the 2019 season, TB was #3 in O ypg (#1 in passing ypg) and #4 in ppg, That's pretty damn good if you ask me. I doubt Winston was making the play calls in 2019.

Again, I'm not saying BL is a genius but my question was your basis for the above bolded statement. It's ok if it is just your opinion.

Sure. My statement was based on Brady hand waving him off on play calls. To me, the offense is Brady's. It is Brady's plays that are in there, Brady's personnel guys from Gronk to AB to Gio. I do think Byron is a decent play caller but it all starts and ends with #12.

In terms of Arians, he is the polar opposite of Bill. He basically deflects all credit. It is interesting to me as I highly doubt Arians is as hands off as he pretends to be. It's his offense and he said how Brady changed everything in the bye week last year.

I guess we will see how Byron's coaching career goes post-Brady to get more of a determining factor. You are right in that he really had only one year of OC experience prior to Brady. Also, Brady has nothing but great things to say about him so there is that too.

 

[RicoG]

Leftwich is caught between Arians offensively philosophy of no Risk it no Biscuit and Brady's NE offensive philosophy.

I think the meld of these two types of offenses have been terrific from the end of last year to now.

I have to side with Leftwich on this one. He is the offensive coordinator so he is ultimately responsible and he has given Brady the leeway/respect that Brady has earned.

After all, Brady is closer in age to coaches than players plus he has the accolades. It is apparent now that Brady wanted more of a say the last few years in NE but didn't get it. Pat's tried to placate him with 2nd hand scrubs Sanu, Gordon, no name TEs, and 1st round busts. If I were into conspiracy theories it almost seemed like a purposeful intent to sabotage his last years to start a rebuild.

Leftwich, Arians, Licht are not making the same mistake. Got him Gronk, AB, Fournette, Gio, Wirfs and paid D. Smith.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

None of us really know what's Brady and what's Leftwich, just like with McDaniels. Since the Bucs stopped with their stupid Arians approach of looking 40 yards downfield as the first option, I like what Brady/Leftwich have done; it's helped a lot with Bernard and Fournette's improvement as a pass catcher.

Having Gronk initially block and then roll off for a catch, like that little end around route in the Super Bowl, was never in the Patiots playbook. And in fact, much of the Super Bowl 55 gameplan (which had almost no targets to Godwin and Evans) was arguably superior to anything the Patriots came up with in a Super Bowl. Yes, the Chiefs sucked, and yes, the Bucs had lots of options, but it's not like the Patriots haven't also had stacked offenses. How many Super Bowls did we say it was finally time for that shellacking where they score 50 points? And so many conservative gameplans, or gameplans where the complicated play design often stood in the way of obvious talent mismatches. You could see toward the end of games when Brady would take over, it was a lot less about those routes and concepts and much more about simple execution.

The Eagles Super Bowl is the best example; go watch the first half again...the team was moving the ball at will against the Eagles but kept taking themselves out with moronic play calls. After Cooks got hurt, Brady seemed to up the tempo and all the glorious Josh McDaniels trappings were set aside as they proceeded to ram it up the Eagles asses, though it was too little, too late in the end.

I think the Bucs tend to use more straight forward, common sense principles like in the red zone, try to isolate your best receiver/TE as your first option before getting into your seven crossing route/double moves like McDaniels loves. I couldn't believe in 2018 when they never even put Josh Gordon in for red zone situations even though he could easily outjump any CB. Look at the way Brady uses Evans, Godwin, and Gronk in those situations and throws the jump balls and back shoulders.

 

[RicoG]

Sure. My statement was based on Brady hand waving him off on play calls. To me, the offense is Brady's. It is Brady's plays that are in there, Brady's personnel guys from Gronk to AB to Gio. I do think Byron is a decent play caller but it all starts and ends with #12.

In terms of Arians, he is the polar opposite of Bill. He basically deflects all credit. It is interesting to me as I highly doubt Arians is as hands off as he pretends to be. It's his offense and he said how Brady changed everything in the bye week last year.

I guess we will see how Byron's coaching career goes post-Brady to get more of a determining factor. You are right in that he really had only one year of OC experience prior to Brady. Also, Brady has nothing but great things to say about him so there is that too.

Your reasoning is why Leftwich is not a slam dunk for a head coaching job. We'll see if that changes in the course of the year. A deep playoff run is the minimum requirement.